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標題: 奶奶同新抱....before and after [打印本頁]

作者: katamari 時間: 2008-1-7 12:10 標題: 奶奶同新抱....before and after

Inspired from 我奶奶癡左線 by 華美子.

好多時見到響婚禮０既情景總有好感人０既speech新抱多謝奶奶教左個好好０既仔出來, 多謝到又攬又喊。見到呢鼠話奶奶永遠當新抱外人，新抱又話奶奶呢樣０個樣。而家先知Ｄ朋友有幾真心講Ｏ個段speech，背後有幾“情深“可想而知

. 究竟係咩問題兩個女人會天生水火不容？定根本雙方都冇想過要為之間得關係作出改善？男人作為老公聽到老婆話自己阿媽或者阿媽數自己老婆又會覺得點？

大家討論下順便同呢個subforum開下光哈哈哈

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2008-1-7 12:58

First of all, not all lai lai is like that geh...some are actually quite good and open minded.

Husband is always sandwiched in the middle.

Best is not to live together.

作者: Alcoholic 時間: 2008-1-7 14:23

i agree that it's best to move out after marriage & not live with both sides of in-laws.
moving out is great because it's like a new step for married couple, which kinda "defines" the start of a "new family".

i did not give that kinda speech at my wedding because nobody wanted to do a speech from both sides of parents. only my hubby did a speech in general. imo, i think speeches as in "thanking in-laws for raising a good bride/groom" is sorta BS. to me, if you appreciate that person, you do it from the heart with action, rather than as "an highlight" of the wedding to show all the guests. even if people do mean the words of their speech, speaking is different from when you actually LIVE with that person AFTER that speech.

say real, my hubby told me just as we moved into our new condo last year...his mom "jokingly" suggested if she could move in with us!!!!!!!!

of course, my hubby turned her down "jokingly" lah... cus he can't stand living with her either... that's why he's been moved out for years~ i know that my lai-lai is very bored, & requires ALOT of attention & things to keep her busy. we always try to find time to eat dinner with her, ask her to come over for dinner... pui her eat lunch/ afternoon tea every week. other than that, we can't pui her much because she's not into shopping, walking (max walk 30 mins), crafts etc... other than play MJ & sit @ home watch tv all day. good thing she has a puppy to keep her busy... & she just needs to be out everyday...even if it means just for her to drive out to return borrowed DVD's for her TVB series.

i don't think it's a problem not really getting along with in-laws (in this case the lai-lai's) because even though if you inform your hubby, or find some friends to vent out, or even "sun" about it online like 華美子 is fine. at least we give our respect by not clashing with the lai-lai's directly & openly.

wife VS lai-lai:
this is because both women understands the hubby different things & different ways. both wife & lai-lai wants the best for the hubby AND the new family, that's why there's a problem. it's because women are one of the most important components that holds a family together. of course, some lai-lai's are very open-minded, treats the wife just like own daughter.... BUT i would say most "wife VS lai-lai" is caused by:
1. traditional subborn lai-lai VS contemporary thinking wife
2. high-maintainence wife VS neglected sticky lai-lai

in my case, it's more of a variation of the 1st option: the bored lai-lai VS the contemporary CBCish white-washed wife.

it's not that me & my lai-lai have a major problem. just grains once in a while. trust me, i want to make things EVEN better, make her feel that i try to treat her like mom too. i want to do the stuff that i do with my mom, the jokes & dumb talks that i talk with my mom... but i can't do that to my lai-lai. cus my family runs "warmer" than his family.... but not that his family is not close & tightly bonded. it's just that the 2 COMMUNICATION for the 2 families are TOO different. for example, in my family, we have dinner together, family outings together (ex shopping, cooking, trips...etc). but in his family, under the same roof, everybody hides in their own room. my hubby moved out long time ago, & hubby's sibling is barely having dinner with lai-lai, probably like 3 times a week MAX. they don't even go out as a family & actually DO things together. how do expect 2 women to communicate well together, when we're from such different families?

the best way is to keep myself cool & calm & keep my mouth shut if something happens...just whine a bit to my hubby not to force him to do something, just to let him know jeh. my hubby knows that my lai-lai has communication problem.... many stories within their family, & even her friends/MJ friends. it's some things that will never change. as the young one, if i can yield to her, mai yield lor.... as long as i keep her happy, & that when i spend time with my lai-lai, we have a happy time. that's it. that's all she needs to be happy - someone to pui her, see her, call her out to let her know that i care for my lai-lai.

i think one problem that some LYK have here is that when there's a problem, you always try to fix it, solve it, do something about it. that's very logical...i'm like that too for some things too. but sorry peoples. that's not how this world runs. not every problem can be solved even if you wanna solve it. if everything can be talked out & solved, then this world woulda been such a happier place to be. this is call maturity. some things don't need to say out loud, you should know. everything doesn't have to be explicit. pushing it too hard is just testing your luck & sandwiching your hubby. if you want to be a smooth person with good relationships, you should know in your heart what kind of personality that other person have, & what's the best way to handle it. that's communication, & being able to observe/know that person well enough.

[ 本帖最後由 Alcoholic 於 2008-1-7 14:29 編輯 ]

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2008-1-7 15:57

How come .. it didn't happen on my own wedding?

My mom was half sleeping .. and joking around with my brother .. so no time to do such thing ..  lol  we didn't do those silly "gifts exchange" thing during our wedding too .. just relax and enjoy ... ( hey ... this is what Wedding for!! )

My wife and my mom ..  they are doing so far so good wor .. my mom asked me to SAVE my wife .. if they both fall to rivier ..  and my wife asked me to SAVE my mom .. if they both fall to river .. and I told them .. of course, I will go to save my mom first la.. ( my wife has the same answer, she will save her dad before me .. if we both fall to river .. lol )

Can you guys actually tell me ..  I just dont understand how 奶奶同新抱 can cause any problem ?? may be if living together is another story la... just like my mom and I ..  we love each other so much ..  but I am sure if we live together ..  problem will come la.. I think 奶奶同新抱 problem can only seen on TVB ..

To make it simple .. if there is problem between 奶奶同新抱 .. or even son and father .. husband and in law .. then dont' live together law .. just live close together may OK la...

My mom doesn't live with her in law too .. but in the same building.. so in case anything happens, my mom can still look after them ..

[ 本帖最後由 Catpiano 於 2008-1-7 15:59 編輯 ]

作者: 華美子 時間: 2008-1-7 16:32

又會拖埋我落水都有架？

之前大家未一齊住，我同奶奶關係都好好。我送咩野比我媽咪，我都送同樣既野比佢，而且貴過買比自己。

我奶奶終於走左啦，大家好黎好去，笑笑下咁送佢機囉。佢之前個晚煮Ｄ送，我都食埋啦，比足面佢。我同老公仲特登整左張卡送比佢多謝佢照顧我地三個月，話呢段時間因為我地係新手父母比較忙亂，因此無好好地陪佢希望佢見諒咁話。

好多男人唔明點解Ｄ女人為Ｄ屋企小事嘈，我尋日同我老公講，女人既廚房就等於男人既書房。男人唔鐘意人地攪亂佢個書房同部電腦，同樣女人都唔鐘意人地攪亂佢個廚房。你見好多樓字買賣決定都同個廚房有關，因為買家個老婆好介意自己個地頭，就係佢個廚房。

總之相見好同住難係岩既，呢句說話唔單只應用係婆媳，咩人都應用到。

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2008-1-7 17:00

Yeah ! bingo !

相見好同住難 ..

Not only between in law and wife . basically .. anyone! ^_^

I remember when I was a foriegn student .. best friend .. not = good roomate!

[ 本帖最後由 Catpiano 於 2008-1-7 17:10 編輯 ]

作者: katamari 時間: 2008-1-7 17:25

原帖由 華美子 於 2008-1-7 16:32 發表
又會拖埋我落水都有架？

之前大家未一齊住，我同奶奶關係都好好。我送咩野比我媽咪，我都送同樣既野比佢，而且貴過買比自己。

我奶奶終於走左啦，大家好黎好去，笑笑下咁送佢機囉。佢之前個晚煮Ｄ送，我都食埋啦，比足面佢。我同老公 ...

Sorry I am not intended to 拖埋我落水 ga! Please don't mind I started a related discussion =).

Sounds like it's the problem of living together. Can I ask the guys... if your mom and your wife cannot get along, will you shut your ears or what? Haha just curious!

作者: Littleprince 時間: 2008-1-7 18:30

之前﹕相見如賓
而家﹔相見如冰

始終係老公個亞媽﹐有咩唔妥都會忍一忍算數﹐所以無咩衝突。。。我奶奶其實算容易相處﹐最鐘意就係她唔多管我們﹐最唔鐘意就係她 TOO TALKATIVE﹐同埋太鐘意講是非﹐唔多頂得順。

作者: tsumorichisato 時間: 2008-1-7 18:46

"BUT i would say most "wife VS lai-lai" is caused by:
1. traditional subborn lai-lai VS contemporary thinking wife
2. high-maintainence wife VS neglected sticky lai-lai"

cruel but so true

作者: katamari 時間: 2008-1-7 18:58

原帖由 tsumorichisato 於 2008-1-7 18:46 發表
"BUT i would say most "wife VS lai-lai" is caused by:
1. traditional subborn lai-lai VS contemporary thinking wife
2. high-maintainence wife VS neglected sticky lai-lai"

cruel but so ...

haha so true!

BTW do you guys think most lai lai think the daughter-in-law has taken away her son after getting married?

作者: tsumorichisato 時間: 2008-1-7 19:15

I dunno if that's part of the "taken away", 99 will be jealous if she sees her son spends a lot on his wife based on the fact that the 99 is not the type who would spend $$ on herself.

Same logic applies to the time spending together. 99 again will not be happy if she sees her son spends a lot of time with his wife but never spends as much with her.

it depends on whether the young couple know how to treat 99 nicely sometimes so that she doesn't feel left alone.

I do heard some stories that 99 likes to 擺款 because she was treated badly by her 99 when she was young. YES, she is taking the revenge to her 新抱 when she finally gets a chance to do so.

作者: princessmocha 時間: 2008-1-7 19:19

I guess as long as don't live together should be ok? (They can treat each other more 客氣??)
A side question: Can daughter in law really treat her 99 as her own mother??

作者: simplistic 時間: 2008-1-7 22:34

原帖由 princessmocha 於 2008-1-7 19:19 發表
I guess as long as don't live together should be ok? (They can treat each other more 客氣??)
A side question: Can daughter in law really treat her 99 as her own mother??

I'd say no to the side question
Unfortunately I treat my 99 much much more courteous than how I treat my mom
With mom I can be very straight and critical since I know she'll understand me, afterall 生女唔知女心肝咩
If you seriously treat 99 exactly the same as your mother, which means you not only show her your good side but also your faults as well, and unless you deem yourself as 百分百24考乖女一名, you guys will definitely be acting out 野蠻99 pretty soon

There are definitely things such as emotions and actions that you will never display infront of 99
The lazy (lying on the sofa 攤屍), 任性, "black-face" side of me 99 will never see and is purely reserved for those who have watched me grown up in the house lol

作者: Alcoholic 時間: 2008-1-7 22:48

some lai-lai will think that the daughter-inlaw "stole" away her son
before, my lai-lai was the type that think the son likes to spend time & effort on the daughter-inlaw rather than on her. my hubby said that whenever he has a gf, his mom would be jealous.

so to make things better, before & after marriage, i always ask my hubby to invite lai-lai to come along whenever we go eat, nothing to do. even when i go home to my mom's place to cook dinner for my mom, i would sometimes invite her too. before marriage, i was pretty nervous about going out with lai-lai alone, or go with her to hang out with lai-lai's family. but one day, i thought to myself. if i really have to marry my hubby, i needa show some guts & care. so i started to date her out myself... not to be on her "good" side...but more like to try to get to know her better... know what she likes, what kind of attitude/habbits she has lor~ pretty freaky...but i still did it for the sake of better communication in our future.

i answer "no" to the side question too.
my mom knows of my bad habbits...like my mom knows i like hard liquor & wine tasting etc... but to my lai-lai (& her family), i hide all of that. my mom understands... so even though i don't let her see the whole picture

, i still let her take a tiny peek, because she is my mom, and no matter good or bad, i want her to know about me. another reason why i keep my personal habbits/ likings away from my lai-lai is because her side of the family has WAY too many rumors & backstabbing. unfortunately, thanks to my hubby's good sibling, my lai-lai knows some of my nightlife.

but even so, infront of my in-laws, i will be the nice, curteous, good manner, proper housewife, that works, cooks, loves her son, & do chores.

作者: chunsh 時間: 2008-1-7 23:23

原帖由 Littleprince 於 2008-1-7 18:30 發表
之前﹕相見如賓
而家﹔相見如冰

始終係老公個亞媽﹐有咩唔妥都會忍一忍算數﹐所以無咩衝突。。。我奶奶其實算容易相處﹐最鐘意就係她唔多管我們﹐最唔鐘意就係她 TOO TALKATIVE﹐同埋太鐘意講是非﹐唔多頂得順。 ...

when u said u dont like your Lai lai "最鐘意就係她唔多管我們﹐最唔鐘意就係她 TOO TALKATIVE﹐同埋太鐘意講是非﹐唔多頂得順", have u ever think about one day you will become the one what you 唔多頂得順 now??

nothing personal, just state the fact. When people getting old, they (we) will be become talkative, and in many cases, too talkative.

I still remember I blamed my uncles/aunties old schools like 10 yrs ago, but now, I am being thought to be old school, and I still not reaching 30

作者: Ultraman 時間: 2008-1-7 23:28

Not some "lai-lai" are difficult to deal with; but some "外母" are also very difficult to deal with! Some "外母" think their daughters' husbands always "蝦" their daughters in a regular basis... !

作者: SAZABI 時間: 2008-1-8 00:25

原帖由 Ultraman 於 2008-1-7 23:28 發表
their daughters' husbands always "蝦" their daughters in a regular basis... ! :tk ...

I admit that...

作者: AmericanBeauty 時間: 2008-1-8 00:25

Just a heads up, the following strategy I employ is not the best strategy ever, but so far it has do me a lot of good: don't date guy where his mother is "around" (in the many ways you can interpret this word). I've dated two guys whose mothers had passed away (sorry for their losses 'cause their mom was not actually very old), and one guy whose mother is not in Canada. It is hard enough to adjust your life to accommodate a guy, I am not even going to believe that it is possible for me to get alone with every single one of his family members. All I can do is to treat them with the greatest respect and keep a reasonable distance to avoid friction. At a subconscious level, I am drawn to guy who has a "mom-free" life style because he is less likely to ask me to live with his parents if we shall ever get married. Even at the dating stage, he is probably not going to ask me to see his family a whole lot. In the odd situations that I do have to deal with his family, I usually manage it pretty well. The "lai-lai" issue has always been something that I take into consideration at the dating stage because I know having the wrong "lai-lai" could potentially ruin a marriage. You can choose the guy, but you can't choose his family. >_< Eventually, future "lai-lai" is going to get old and I will probably have to help my future hubby to fulfill his responsibility as a son. But until that time comes, I will try to keep myself sane so I can be at my best when I do have to be with "lai-lai" under the same roof. Enough of my BS.

Speaking of getting along with "lai-lai," Echo Chan (三毛) talked about her experienve with her mother in law in one of her books (I think it is 《稻草人手记》). It's a very interesting read and I recommend it to every Chinese housewives.

作者: Traum 時間: 2008-1-8 01:28

提示: 作者被禁止或刪除內容自動屏蔽

作者: blueprint 時間: 2008-1-8 03:28

原帖由 chunsh 於 2008-1-7 23:23 發表
when u said u dont like your Lai lai "最鐘意就係她唔多管我們﹐最唔鐘意就係她 TOO TALKATIVE﹐同埋太鐘意講是非﹐唔多頂得順", have u ever think about one day you will become the one what you 唔多頂得順 now? ...

I think you're right. More to this point, just as they are 鐘意講是非, aren't we not doing the same sometimes by talking bad things about people on the internet?

作者: Alcoholic 時間: 2008-1-8 08:17

Mr.Lik,
That's why you need to find one that's 靚女, 入得廚房，出得廳堂, 上得大床 , & know how to tum your mom

作者: Alcoholic 時間: 2008-1-8 08:31

原帖由 Ultraman 於 2008-1-7 11:28 PM 發表
Some "外母" think their daughters' husbands always "蝦" their daughters in a regular basis... ! :tk ...

my lai-lai thinks 我食住我老公添啦~

it's like, if you be quiet & be a little woman, & let hubby feed you food etc, 又唔得...she will think that hubby 冇地位.
if you ask your hubby to help you this & that, 又唔得, she will think you're bossing hubby around.

hard to satisfy lai-lai... unless they're the type that super super adores you before you get married, & she actually pushes/blows you guys to get married type.

few days ago, my lai-lai 莫明奇妙地 said that i step down on my hubby infront of other people!!!!
infront of MY mom when we eat out for dinner, she said to me: "以後唔好係人面前step你老公喇, 知道未呀？"
my mom gave me a weird look, & i was like: "..........wtf" i very sick, so i just turned away & continue to chat with my mom like nothing happened.
later, i ask my hubby why the hell did she say that out of nowhere. (cus' he was talking to her about that after i acted like nothing & turned to talked to my mom)
my hubby said that my lai-lai said:
- how i sometimes say some chinese people dress weird on the street.
- how i don't enjoy TVB series because the plot is gay, long & nagging
- said i made fun of hubby's english infront of other people
---------> related to ME STEPPING ON MY HUBBY INFRONT OF OTHER PEOPLE!!!!!!

- first of all, i barely speak english infront of lai-lai's family because they're all chinese. so i give them respect by try my hardest to speak chinese unless i really can't explain myself/know a term in chinese. just rare case, maybe i'll chat in english with my hubby's cousins when they're around.
- both me & my hubby don't recall a time i made fun of him infront of his family. why would i even do that when i'm proud of my hubby & wants the whole world to know how great he is to me! when my hubby ask lai-lai when did i ever do that, she 又講唔出. totally not logical!!! & what i like, what i don't like is MY preference. & it's not like we all don't look at weird people on the street anyways...

so, the consensus is: my lai-lai is mo-liu! it's not the first time she made up crap! (other stories, but i wont bother saying it here, 費事比人話我地 D housewifes are "too talkative") even when i talk to my mom afterward, my mom thinks it's bs because she knows i act proper infront of my in-laws! at least infront of my mom & dad's friends, relatives etc, i have never yet disappointed my parents! so my mom told me to just ignore it because she knows me best.

conclusion is:
bored chinese lai-lai VS cbc-ish white-washed contemporary housewife.

[ 本帖最後由 Alcoholic 於 2008-1-8 08:58 編輯 ]

作者: chunsh 時間: 2008-1-8 14:21

原帖由 Alcoholic 於 2008-1-8 08:31 發表 [so, the consensus is: my lai-lai is mo-liu! it's not the first time she made up crap! (other stories, but i wont bother saying it here, 費事比人話我地 D housewifes are "too talkative") even when i talk to my mom afterward, my mom thinks it's bs because she knows i act proper infront of my in-laws! at least infront of my mom & dad's friends, relatives etc, i have never yet disappointed my parents! so my mom told me to just ignore it because she knows me best.

I am not standing right besides you and do telepathing to u and your family members to judge who is right and who is wrong, but.....

first of all, people (including u and me and others) tend to think we did everything right and if someone unhappy about us, its their fault.

second, most parents always think their children did things right and their parents-in-law and/or spouses treat their children bad

if you think all conflicts/arguments are other people's problems, u already have problems. In fact, in most arguments/conflicts , both side also have problems

cheers

作者: Purpleheart 時間: 2008-1-8 15:04

我同男朋友未結婚, 不過已經一齊左三年~~ 佢媽媽由對我客客氣氣到毫不客氣

作為長輩, 佢好鐘意訓話~ 仲要訓足我同我男朋友幾個鐘~ 都算~~~ 有一次去飲茶, 我男朋友做柴可夫, 到酒樓門口, 我同佢媽咪落車先, 柴可夫去找車位 ~ 到有台喇~ 佢媽咪一坐低就開始訓話, " 阿女, 你知唔知道做人最基本既係由做家務開始....你看看好多成功人士, 佢地之所以成功係因為佢地執到間屋齊齊整整.........( 10000000 words deleted )" 仲係用想全酒樓都聽到既聲量黎講~~~ 真係好尷尬~ 又唔可以叫佢 shut up~

好在我靈機一足~~~ 我望出窗同佢媽咪講 " 咦~ 柴可夫找到車位喇~ 佢好似唔係好識泊車wor....我去幫佢睇位先 " 一出到門口柴可夫已經泊完車我即刻叫救命!!! 入到酒樓佢媽咪繼續訓話, 食飽又訓, 訓飽又食!!
到最後埋單~ 原本佢媽咪俾錢~ 我立即(皮笑肉不笑的)話 " 唔駛喇Auntie, 我請啦~~ 一直以來我都未請過你飲茶, 我剛剛加左人工嘛~~ 今次等我請啦!!! "

由我俾完錢到柴可夫車我地返屋企 ( 二十分鐘車程 )佢媽咪都冇出聲, 亦唔再訓話, 仲笑住口話 "多謝你請我飲茶!!!"

Auntie 的心事真奇怪 !!!!!!!!!!

So there are lots of ways to solve the problem....

作者: Alcoholic 時間: 2008-1-8 15:19

nonono
my point is:
- when people (such as lai-lai's in these cases) don't have logical evidence that you did something wrong, they shouldn't judge anyone in the first place.

- first, most people don't think what they do is right... they do what their natural response is at that moment. in my case, i didn't even do what she claimed i did... & my hubby agrees. & when people make irrational judgements with illogical claims about you, it is only their fault because there's nothing misleading & contraversial about your actions.

- secondly, disciplined chinese families always humble about the behavior of the children and correct them when they're wrong. if i did/say anything "wrong" my hubby/parents would tell me quietly in my ears, or talk about it when we get home & VS (happened before, very rare). btw, my family thinks my hubby treats me like gold. my family always ask me to treat my hubby good too (not like i don't, but they just want us to treat each other well with happiness).

most likely, there are problems on both sides when there's a conflict. but does that mean 100%? nope. especially when what my lai-lai said totally didn't even make sense altogether.

if my hubby agrees with my lai-lai that i should give him some face & respect infront of other people, of course it's my problem.

i hope you read my points carefully:
(true) looking at people who dress weird
+
(true) not liking to watch TVB series
+
(accusing) i said my hubby has bad english
does not = i step on my hubby infront of other people

if i tell you that my hubby's sibling used to spy on me before, & tells my lai-lai twisted facts. is that supposed to be my problem too? i sure hope not it's my problem too man. cus i don't even know that person other than name, age, & that it's my hubby's sibling.

[ 本帖最後由 Alcoholic 於 2008-1-8 15:24 編輯 ]

作者: chunsh 時間: 2008-1-8 16:13

原帖由 Alcoholic 於 2008-1-8 15:19 發表
nonono
my point is:
- when people (such as lai-lai's in these cases) don't have logical evidence that you did something wrong, they shouldn't judge anyone in the first place.

- first, most people ...

haha, as I said, I didnt standing besides you and your family so I can't judge who is right and who is wrong. I was just trying state that problems are USUALLY on both sides but I am not saying u have done something wrong. But you will be the one who become unhappy and angry if you keep thinking that ALL troubles/conflicts are caused by others.

cheers

作者: Alcoholic 時間: 2008-1-8 16:50

chunsh,

i'm not unhappy cus it's "all" the troubles are caused by others. i would just be happier if they have a problem with me for any dumb but logical reason at all...like... even if they don't like my exsistence! rather than for unreasonable "reasons". like, if my lai-lai is kinda like Purpleheart's bf's mom... who likes to "teach" people for the sake of goodness & being proper, likes to act like a wise elder...that's fine, i totally buy that. but don't tell me because i don't like TVB series, or that weird people catches my eye lor, & never even seen me "teach" my hubby infront of other people.

and i would appreciate it if people think like how some lyk think: have problem, then talk it out. or even say it in my face... rather than having a 1/2-random 28 year unmarried old kid spying on some poor 25 year old housewife

[ 本帖最後由 Alcoholic 於 2008-1-8 16:51 編輯 ]

作者: superberry 時間: 2008-1-8 18:16

婆媳 & 姑嫂係甘 ga la. 我阿媽 arm arm 結婚果陣, 都俾我D姑姐恰到死. 就算個奶奶幾 nice 都好, 大家來自唔同的 family, 摩察一定有! 嚴重的真係好似野蠻奶奶大戰哥師奶 ga! 好似我叔婆同嬸嬸甘, 噪到要分開煲煮食 tim a!

作者: Littleprince 時間: 2008-1-8 18:23

原帖由 blueprint 於 2008-1-8 03:28 發表

I think you're right. More to this point, just as they are 鐘意講是非, aren't we not doing the same sometimes by talking bad things about people on the internet?

你講得真係o岩﹐provided 你識得我或者我奶奶。。。但可惜呢﹐你又唔識播。。。TOO BAD。。。SO IT IS TOTALLY WRONG。。。

[ 本帖最後由 Littleprince 於 2008-1-8 18:48 編輯 ]

作者: Littleprince 時間: 2008-1-8 18:27 標題: 回復 15# 的帖子

hi chunsh,

you said "nothing personal, just state the fact. When people getting old, they (we) will be become talkative, and in many cases, too talkative. '

我希望唔會變成這種人啦。。。人越老的確越長氣。。。但我覺得你 MISSED 左我個 POINT﹐我唔係話她長氣﹐你識得分“長氣”﹐同埋“長舌”嗎﹖

BTW﹐有樣野叫做“性格”﹐有種人係特別鐘意講是非﹐唔理幾多歲。。。但有d人就無興趣別人的閑話﹐舉例其中一種 STUDY 叫九型人格﹐類似的 STUDY 坊間還有許多。。。乜無人話你知咩﹖

[ 本帖最後由 Littleprince 於 2008-1-8 18:50 編輯 ]

作者: big_tooth 時間: 2008-1-8 18:49

Alcoholic, I agree with Chunsh on this one here. What I'm about to say is not direct to your case but in a general sense.

Point 1.
As you said before, talking directly to the mother in law is suicide, and for a husband siding with his mom over his wife is also suicidal for him.

Point 2.
Sometimes the husband and wife are so used to each other, we don't even realize alot of the little things we do to our spouse. And just as any loving couple should be, we don't care or notice those little things that our spouse is doing to us.

I guess what I want to express is to keep an open mind about what the in laws are saying and doing, after all, they are family.

作者: big_tooth 時間: 2008-1-8 18:56

原帖由 Littleprince 於 2008-1-8 18:23 發表

你講得真係o岩﹐provided 你識得我或者我奶奶。。。但可惜呢﹐你又唔識播。。。TOO BAD。。。SO IT IS TOTALLY WRONG。。。

hmmm, the problem with internet forum is that once you posted it, you don't know who is reading it.

作者: Littleprince 時間: 2008-1-8 19:41

原帖由 big_tooth 於 2008-1-8 18:56 發表

hmmm, the problem with internet forum is that once you posted it, you don't know who is reading it.

邊個看都無問題播﹐乜你知我係邊個咩﹖誰要是知道我或她的真正身份才算是講是非吧﹖否則只能算是論壇吹水﹐不是嗎﹖(不要忘了我們爭論的重點是“講是非”OK﹖)

[ 本帖最後由 Littleprince 於 2008-1-8 19:53 編輯 ]

作者: Alcoholic 時間: 2008-1-8 19:55

Little Prince:
i TOTALLY understand what you mean by 有D人係"性格長舌" !!!!!!!

*relieved*

but seems like 我地黎班 LYK C9 here knows what to do best & is best at doing what is most wise to do:

收埋 & 算！！！！！

it's all really a small thing. it's just that we're analyzing & actually disecting all the points out here & explaining our feelings, that's why some people think us LYK housewives are having some "major respect/communication" problem with elders.

講真, 如果我地真係咁唔ger既話，神早就同奶奶 "chan"到行，大家成年人，又冇血源關係，洗比面妳? 洗鬼set做新抱既宗子:"退一步海闊天空，小事化無，老公為重" 咩~~

唔明唔緊要，照樣睇得化咪得囉~ 如果咁容易比野/人激到，點keep住做靚太呀?

作者: big_tooth 時間: 2008-1-8 20:02

原帖由 Littleprince 於 2008-1-8 19:41 發表

邊個看都無問題播﹐乜你知我係邊個咩﹖

I don't know you, but it is not hard for people who knows you to find what you posted on the internet.

Besides, does it make it alright to talk bad about someone when you think he/she will not find out what you said?

Please understand that I'm not saying you (or Alcoholic) are 講是非. Venting out frustration is one thing, saying things that has absolute no impact to you behind that person's back is 講是非.

[ 本帖最後由 big_tooth 於 2008-1-8 20:20 編輯 ]

作者: tsumorichisato 時間: 2008-1-8 20:10

話時話我都見過有D 新抱可以對99好似啊媽0甘好﹐個situation 就個新抱個親生媽媽好早就唔響度既囉

我覺得你地好勁架啦。比著我遇上呢D 99﹐ 我都唔知我頂唔頂得順

作者: blueprint 時間: 2008-1-8 21:33

I feel that sometimes the relationship (mother-in-law and daughter-in-law) is complicated because we tend to think too much. And then start the cycle where daughters-in-law chat how tough things are, and the mothers-in-law on the other side maybe doing just the same thing.

To me, the solution (as boring as it may sounds) is to learn how to treat mother-in-law as a mom.  It's all right to vent it out, it's all right to feel tired and sick of it (if you are aware that the people you confess to is reliable), and then to encourage and motivate each other to feel better and handle situation better.

I've been married for almost 7 years and have two kids.  Up till now, after both my mother-in-law and my mom stayed with us from time to and time, I realized more that it's all up to me to find peace within myself.  I can't just grab some differences, some disagreements, some misunderstandings and then be unhappy about for a long time.  Because we all have our own values, points of views, and ways of doing things.  IMHO, what matters is how I can learn to 睇得化, and remind myself, we are all families, and try not think too much (多心).

Cheers ladies!  I sincerely wish that you will keep up the good job and stay cool.

作者: blueprint 時間: 2008-1-8 21:44

原帖由 Littleprince 於 2008-1-8 18:23 發表

你講得真係o岩﹐provided 你識得我或者我奶奶。。。但可惜呢﹐你又唔識播。。。TOO BAD。。。SO IT IS TOTALLY WRONG。。。

Hm... so your logic is: it's OK for Miss A to say bad things about you on some forum, because Miss A don't think anyone there would know you.

And... you are fine with it?

作者: Littleprince 時間: 2008-1-8 21:47

Alc,

你講得十分對呀。。。我地都只不過係呻下遮﹐無問題掛。。。

如果真係唔 RESPECT﹐點仲可以一齊住呀﹖而家幾多後生仲肯同奶奶住呀﹖

Big_tooth:

o甘個主題係問奶奶同新抱關係嘛﹐人地講真話都唔得﹐人地真係頂唔順她的長舌嘛

。。。係咪響網上都要詐帝扮關係好好﹐講埋晒D表面野呀﹖天呀~~~

blueprint:

sure, why not?

[ 本帖最後由 Littleprince 於 2008-1-8 21:50 編輯 ]

作者: katamari 時間: 2008-1-8 22:23

原帖由 blueprint 於 2008-1-8 21:33 發表
I feel that sometimes the relationship (mother-in-law and daughter-in-law) is complicated because we tend to think too much. And then start the cycle where daughters-in-law chat how tough things are ...

This is true, problems always appear when both sides start to think too much. Blueprint your reply is actually very encouraging!

原帖由 tsumorichisato 於 2008-1-8 20:10 發表
話時話我都見過有D 新抱可以對99好似啊媽0甘好﹐個situation 就個新抱個親生媽媽好早就唔響度既囉

我覺得你地好勁架啦。比著我遇上呢D 99﹐ 我都唔知我頂唔頂得順 ...

Honestly I have been married for 2 years, I am treating my husband's family like my own family, they treat me the same way too. I always tell my hubby that I am the lucky one because we never have to deal with these 奶奶同新抱 matters. I gotta mention to you guys that my mom is ALIVE

作者: katamari 時間: 2008-1-8 22:31

其實都唔好對我地０既ＬＹＫ太太團太ＨＡＲＳＨ，起碼而家講左出來好過死忍。不過對自己阿媽又好對奶奶都好，我自己成日會記住將心比己，點都唔好傷害自己屋企人囉。努力啦，同老爺奶奶關係好Ｄ，你同老公感情都好Ｄ啦！

作者: Alcoholic 時間: 2008-1-8 22:53

Little Prince,
i was just talking to my hubby about this. (hehe...he reads my posts here). many times not getting along is just family brought up, aka personality (i agree with you). like my hubby said, the way i treat my mom, is learnt alot from how my mom treat my 婆婆. my hubby said, if he treat HIS 婆婆 the way how i treat my 婆婆 AND his 婆婆, his family will think he 無啦啦黐左線。 some things will never change. if we don't want to become 溝通/性格問題, then only way is to not do what they're doing, so that our future daughters will not become problematic lai-lai's (in our opinion).

on the other hand, this will mean that if we don't like the habbits of the lai-lai's, we will have to be FIRM on our own preference of life....YET still respect & work around with the lai-lai's personality. 咁即係話，到時我第日dun件出黎。。。要分配 between me & lai-lai's ways to "chou"個BB....都幾頭痕。

作者: yellowapple 時間: 2008-1-8 23:53

After reading all the postings, I think before knowing the answer (difference of before and after), one of the key points will be whether or not you are living with your in-laws. I believe if the couples are not living with in-laws, 摩擦will be less because you won't see them too often. But if you are living with your in-laws, you basically see them everyday and it will be another story. Back to the point that 相見好﹐同住難。不過﹐我相信當然有好既case, 奶奶同新抱一齊住係完全無問題﹐只係我哋唔知。

作者: Littleprince 時間: 2008-1-8 23:53

Alc,

我就無人可以學習﹐因為我亞媽無奶奶﹐好彩我都無諗住有細路﹐所以無呢方面的煩惱。

作者: Alcoholic 時間: 2008-1-9 08:39

LittlePrince:
suen la... *aiii* you know, it took me & my hubby over a year to "shut up" the mouths & convince them about our "baby plan"....

ended up my hubby didn't say "no", but didn't say "yes" to a baby... he just told his family that "we WILL plan LATER after 2-3 years" whether or not we want a child. so until that 2-3 years time frame is over, they can't nag me to poop out a kid~

in this topic, there are:
1. group that has good relationship & similarities with lai-lai's that never gone through the troubles/concerns as:
2. group that has differences with lai-lai's (like me & you)...who knows very well that communication & compatiblility is not as simple as what group 1 & the following group says.
3. unmarried people, who uses a logical solution to try & apply it to a more "intimate" relationship... because they haven't yet gone through it themselves... so they don't know that they cannot treat relatives (lai-lai's in this case) the same way as they treat other people, other instances.

yellowapple:
it's not like i don't know any "good cases" living with lai-lai geh~ one of my hubby's "friend" lives with her hubby's entire family. they seem to get along well together because they have the same traditional goal...and that is: women are supposed to be a good housewife, they exist to serve men & reproduce. that's why that wife & that lai-lai get along together & serve the rest of the family (all males) like maids, & they're happy to do so. (note: all the males, as in dad, bro & the husband, cannot cook, laundry, takecare of themselves, never done any chores in their life before).

of course, there are other normal & not extreme case of lai-lai getting along with wife geh.... hahaha... just that the case i know of is a bit "odd" ja mah~ LOL

[ 本帖最後由 Alcoholic 於 2008-1-9 08:43 編輯 ]

作者: utopia 時間: 2008-1-9 10:09

Alc,

Listening to what you said about "lai lai", it lead me and caveman had a conversation about what if we get married.... then I have "no eye see".

Given my brother is already married and my mom is very very attached to me.... THEN, his mom is divorce and not willing to get another man in her life...and she does not have too many friends due to her personality.................then should we get triplex rather than duplex???~~~~

They had an agreement long long time ago when he was still with his honger ex gf that her mom said she won't live with them... but now she "pretends" she forgot about it....
And keep mentioning "our house" lately ................... "our house" meaning including her lor~~~~ and caveman really hates her mom living style, he always complain that she makes everything look so countryside, so china...............ai....

Then, when caveman pointed out "our house", she immediately pretends innocent and said, "chuer, by the time you get married I will retired la. I will just go back to China and live with your uncle and auntie. The most you just leave me a spare room and I come back every 6 months"......................

But.......the thing is, his auntie has a granddaughter and a family and his uncle has 3 wives, one in Vancouver, 2 in HK and have so many kids. How the heck that is possible his mom can live with his aunt and uncle ar????

I just very very curious how your hubby turn down your lai lai's offer by living with you two..........................I have no eyes see lor...........PLUS, I rather let my mom raise my kids in the future since my mom was a teacher when she was young.............I don't want my kid to learn anything "so china"..............................

作者: blueprint 時間: 2008-1-9 10:15 標題: 回復 45# 的帖子

Hey Alcoholic,  you seem to leave one group out:

4.  group that has good relationship with mother-in-law despite of the differences, had been and/or still going through tough times, troubles and/or concerns

I don't think anyone here is telling you or others to stop discussing.  It's better to reread all the posts in this thread carefully, then you may see the main point emphasized again and again is - try to turn all the complaints to a more constructive actions.  Constructive in a sense that you are aware of the conflicts whatsoever, and willing to bring them to the least.  Be proactive, not reactive.

Not saying you are not, Alcoholic.  I see that you've been doing your bests.  Keep it up.  Remember though, when you are FIRM on your own preferences, you are responsible for the role you have created with your mother-in-law and your hubby.

作者: Alcoholic 時間: 2008-1-9 10:56

blueprint:
there is no group #4 because that's the same as group #2. Me, LittlePrince, 華美子 etc have differences with lai-lai's yet we still have a good relationship with them. & we know there are many more concerns to come in the future.

if there really is a group # 4, it would be the group where: wife & lai-lai have differences/concerns, & have bad relationship with lai-lai by clashing with them head-on hard.

if you read carefully, just because we're venting/analyzing or even "complaining" as some people calls it here, doesn't mean our relationship is bad wor. that's because we're dealing with it in the most beneficial neutral way, which means, we ACCEPT the differences. but that does NOT mean we agree to the facts of those differences wor. just because we "yield" to the lai-lai's doesn't mean the relationship is bad, or that we're grieving over how poor we are. when has ANY sort of relationship been perfect without any "yielding"? So i think it's just that just because we word it differently than you, doesn't mean we're not doing something constructive & proactive either. and no, i don't think we're getting the idea that discussion is not encouraged here either... or else this would have ended when other opinions started to voice out.

of course we C9's should be firm on our preferences & choices because each woman have different values. to me, even if you're a full time dependant housemaker, you should still be independent with your mind & personal goals. We live for ourselves, for CREATING our own family.... but not REVOLVE around a family. our actions of course will affect people... but people are not an effect of actions. so logically, roles should not change. for example, our role is very clear: the wife, the daughter-in-law.

Twin,
mo ga... the way we deal with the "moving in" thing is simple. lai-lai say in "jokingly tone". he responsed in a non offending vocabulary in a jokingly tone too. however, if anything is asked seriously, you should answer seriously. it was easier for us to get off the hook cus his mom has a house, & my hubby's sibling is not married yet & still lives at home.

from the way i see it, you get your @$$ prepared to live with caveman mom duo duc la. all your future lai-lai has left is YOUR CAVEMAN. & as a good guy like your caveman... i think he will not turn down his mom, & your caveman has a very strong sense of being a real man. no method, he will most likely take responisbility of the damage done by the upper generation (divorce), & take respect by taking care of his mom.

[ 本帖最後由 Alcoholic 於 2008-1-9 11:09 編輯 ]

作者: utopia 時間: 2008-1-9 11:15

ai.......................... twin,

We preparing the worst to buy an older house with basement and give up renting out the basement...........and let his mom to live in there lor.............. we don't want to live with her.

Lately, we had quite a few conversation about this topic... he always ask me why does he has to suffer from the problem create from last generation. Why does he has to be responsible for his mom's mistake...and I just keep silent lor. As you mentioned, he always want to be a real man and be responsible...so this is like a no turn back question ..............ai..............

His mom is getting old and acting more like a old lady lately...so that's why we have been discussing this topic lor as we are trying to save up for down payment and everything lately................

Last time after we snowboard, caveman and I cannot even move and we ate already. His mom mentioned a few time to go out for dinner....me being soft heart and seen his mom looks tired after work and dun want to cook...so no matter how sore our body, I said it's ok we can still eat with you even we ate a bit before...............and in his car, he "inch" his mom said "if it's another way, we wants to go out to eat and you are tired, you won't go with us la" and his mom answer "hai gai, if I am tired, I wont' go with you for sure" which pissed us off so much but we cannot say anything..................because we had bad experience to discuss stuff with his mom...

He forced his mom to face the fact in the future and asked his mom, why does she always mentioned caveman will give her couple hundred a month in the future when he was trying to finish his double degree so hard now without her support on tuition??? Why does she always have to brag about his cousin, how good they are doing in school (doctor, master blah blah blah), and they have full support from their dad......................... and his mom end up crying and tell everybody that she feel so sad that his son said these and dad...........but his mom keep mentioning issue like that lately .......and it becomes very annoying and irritating...................It's not like nobody after her since she looks fine at her age...............she has an old white guy after her and that guy is super rich........., she has cook likes her in the past, and she turn him down.... she is the one who responsible for loneness.......and she ruined the marriage ..........herself.......and that's why her husband went out with other woman lor.......

p.s. Sorry twin for bringing up this topic and I'm not even married yet, but this become an issue to us lately.......

作者: big_tooth 時間: 2008-1-9 11:22

I guess the trouble is that when we post a reply that is somewhat on the mother-in-law side or those who suggest a solution, we immediately get put into either group 1 or group 3.

作者: blueprint 時間: 2008-1-9 11:39 標題: 回復 48# 的帖子

I see Alcoholic. I misunderstood that you mean bad relationship for #2. Because I saw you saying "say no more, shut up" couple of times, so I misunderstood that you think others are telling you so.

As I've said, I think you have been doing good job already. I'm just encouraging you and all to stay proactive. For be firm on preferences topic, I mean because you, me and other daughters-in-law here are responsible for our actions, we can then choose to be happy.

作者: Alcoholic 時間: 2008-1-9 13:57

big tooth:
well... is there another group that is unknown for then??

blueprint:
well, when you don't like something, of course you want "no more", & when people talk unreasonable bs, of course in your heart, you wanna tell their faces to "shut it". of course, no matter how we think, we can't really say it.

so as i said before.... keep it to yourself, comfort your temper, make the problem down to zero.

and it is to our benefit to speak our hearts here online, being private, 1/2 annoymous. it illustrates the true feelings, any frustrations of all housewives (even the ones that get along great with lai-lai's with no friction). i glad that i explain it more clearly to you blueprint

i know that we're all typing with our feelings/thoughts... but other LYK can only read black & white words off of a screen~

since we all have a "good relationship" with the lai-lai's & no head-on collisions, i think ALL of us is doing a good job. not that other suggestions are not logical/good/useful. just that if we all are doing smoothly, then whatever way we're doing it is just fine.

so voicing out/reminding other options is great, but asking people "why you didn't try this", "why you didn't do that", "maybe you aren't trying hard enough" when we ALL are old enough, mature & KNOW/STATED that these options ARE open (just we didn't take those options).....is kinda....not rude... but not "understanding". that's why i say that not all logic can be applied to all situations/ relationships/ communication. so please don't say that we are not welcoming other opinions/suggestions, nor that we did not consider trying those lor. so to answer big tooth's concern, i would say that is the only little bump of trouble here in this thread.

Twin,
it's great that you join into our C9 chat here. i think it's beneficial to other girls that will plan to get married one day.
caveman's mom feels insecure. so all that allowance hinting, "our house", etc is because she wants attention/ care...i know that you know, but when you're in her shoes, care is never enough. just like my lai-lai gum. i know sometimes she gossips, say things out of nowhere... but i know she's bored. she needs attention. she needs someone to be sitting in her face to TALK to. that's what she needs. if i just date her out by myself for lunch/dinner/anything... i make her happy just by listening to whatever she says, & let her know that after eating, i'll PUI her go here to buy/do whatever. in a way, my lai-lai is like caveman mom too. she's insecure. my hubby's dad is always not around. as i say, my hubby's sibling is barely at home, or even if at home, always in room, or watch tv him/herself...while lai-lai watches her own tv by herself

as for blaming her for loneliness... to be honest, that's kinda bad to say >__<. cus even IF she really DID screw up her marriage... just losing hope, or not truely liking someone new enough to make another committment in her life (even if not get married) is not her fault geh. 2 separate things. when a woman has been insecured, scared for LONG period of time like that (including my lai-lai, a bit of my mom too)... they over do things i know. for one fact, they older generation are USUALLY pretty tough yet stubborn. BUT, we can't really blame them all for stubborness because they did not experience what we experience now, & not as much education as us. you know what i mean?

[ 本帖最後由 Alcoholic 於 2008-1-9 14:01 編輯 ]

作者: chunsh 時間: 2008-1-9 14:28

原帖由 utopia 於 2008-1-9 11:15 發表
ai.......................... twin,

We preparing the worst to buy an older house with basement and give up renting out the basement...........and let his mom to live in there lor.............. we don ...

how old is your bf?
is he living with his mom?
if so, it is his RESPONSBILITY to give $$ to his mom, becos he is using the resouces (land, house, car, food, etc)
and even once u guys get married, if his mom and dad are getting old and lost the ability to make $$, it is also his RESPONSIBILITY to feed his mom.
Why? SIMPLE!!! in the previous twenty something years, besides feeding him, bring him to see doctors when he got sick, who gave your bf a "home" (not just house)

you said yr bf wants his mom to "face the fact in the future". Accroding to your wording, is the fact equals to "Mom, since you don't support me economically for my university degree just like other rich hongers, so I won't take care of you and dad after u guys getting old. Dont even think of it"??

sorry if I misunderstood your bf, but he sounds to me that he not only doesnt want to take care of his parents in the future, but also try to blame them not to give support for his degree. And at the beginning of the quoted text form yours, you sounds like your bf and you just treat his mom as a begger or burden. Come on! be a man who take care the ones who used to take care of u

作者: utopia 時間: 2008-1-9 15:13 標題: 回復 53# 的帖子

Don't worry, you misunderstand the situation because you do not understand the full story . You are just looking at it from a normal family perspective jei.

Ok, let's talk about the money issue. Caveman already help his mom to do a lot investment. Those money are more than enough for her retirement and he used those money to purchase two apartment in China and one of them are renting out already so she has consistent extra income.

About taking care of him, like bringing him to doctor. Well, for sure she is not a bad mom and she does care about caveman too but........unlike normal kids. She wasn't there for him from age 7-14. She flied to Singapore and Canada with his dad to "repair relationship" and left him alone in China with his uncle, auntie grandparents. For that 7 years, he was kicking around between relatives houses.

We are not (both caveman and I) criticizing her for not taking care of him, or else we won't try to pui her even she get annoying sometimes but that does not court as forcing the son to be responsible for her mistakes.

If we do the math, from age 1 - 7. He was either taking care by maid or staying at both side of grandparents' house. From age 2-5, he was in private school 5 days a week, only see her and his dad during the weekend. Until 7, he was no longer in private school and was expecting to spend most of the time with parents where marriage affair happened. Both parent did not discuss with him but gave him final notice that they have to go somewhere very far.............

So from age 14 (that's when she divorce) til now, she trying to make up those years, and cook so much for him (base on her taste, she insist to cook something she likes even caveman and I don't like oily food............she just make a whole bunch)........ and cook "leung chai" for him.......... Seeing doctor issue was done by himself or relatives for the past years........ wait, she did help him once, few years ago when he was extreme sick and has to send to ER to see doctor.

作者: utopia 時間: 2008-1-9 15:22

Also, Chunsh, we do not see auntie as a burden initially. But com'n, his mom occasionally make comparison which ............... very annoying.

When caveman happily tell her that he got scholarship, his mom will say "whoever cousin" is doing doctor or his cousin is working in HSBC with a Master. Or will say something like, oh son, what's CA? Why don't you finish CA in the future? Then, later, she will say "son, when will you graduate and get married"

Or worst, she will keep saying "ai, the government will give me yeung lo gum, then you can give me couple hundred every month". The fact is, without she saying that to us or not, we already planned to give her money in the future but she just keep bringing it up which give us so much pressure.................... Then she will continues saying his cousin give his auntie 800 a month and the sister give the auntie another 800, and she has a house and she has 1600 a month..................and how good those two cousins are, they are both master...............

You see what I mean? Caveman and I both respect her and take care of her but she just take it for granted without appreciating. Talking about feeding him, he try to help her with most of the expense. He paid for all the groceries, paid for the gas for his mom. The only thing he did not pay is the rent of the house. If he is not being responsible, he can go ahead and just like most honger kids. He takes care of everything in this family...............................all he needs is his mom's understanding and encouragement but his mom occasionally brag about how good her side relative are to him and to me.............which is nothing to do with us at all..........

作者: big_tooth 時間: 2008-1-9 15:29

Yes, there is another.  I believe my wife belongs in that group.

Alot of what you guys said here, we have experienced too (not all, but alot of them), and of course we've experienced things that were not mentioned here as well.  Yeah, we didn't like some of the stuff, but my wife would try to understand why my mom or her mom were doing what they did.  And she can often comes up with a logical explanation to what we at first thought were illogical behaviour.

Again, I don't think there is any problem with venting frustration, but I do see it as harmful to ourselves when we only want to vent and not accepting to hear advice or negative comments.

Alot of the problems with in-laws are due to misunderstanding, or lack of willingness to understand, and some of the examples given here I can somehow picture the mother's side of argument.  When we understand the other side, there really isn't much left to complain about.

(And I do also realize there are really terrible inlaws...mother or daughter or father or son)

作者: utopia 時間: 2008-1-9 15:30

The reason why we want her to face the fact is not solely we don't want to live with her.

we are doing that for her own good too. She has been to Canada for almost 20 years I think? She is not one bit adapt to the life style in Canada at all and she likes everything in China and so proud of it. She even told me "Utopia, Guazhou is so much better than Hong Kong and nicer than HK, HK cannot compare to Guazhou". She always love her sibling in China ............... and she will not eat anything western in Canada and think everything in Canada is expensive and she cannot speak English after 20 years in Canada.

We do not want her to be like those seniors in Chinatown moving like a zombie and go to the bank teller and screaming. She will have a better life in China while spending time with her sibling.

And sorry if I use the wrong tone but we never complain to her in "one bit" about she did not support his degrees like other honger parents. We don't mind at all but we mind when she brag in front of us how she "paid for his school" when that is not the fact....... We mind that when she brag about those cousin are so good when we know the fact deep down they did not spend time with their parents like we do...........
We mind that when she twist all the facts in order to fulfill her pride.........

作者: CWong 時間: 2008-1-9 18:09

点解只係講奶奶同新抱？唔通老爺同新抱、或者女婿同外父、外母、姑嫂、叔嫂都冇問题？淨係女人同女人至有問题？

作者: Yui 時間: 2008-1-9 18:42

lyk各路溝通高手,請指點一下我應如何說服我老爺奶奶改善(不是改變)他們的生活方式?

我老爺奶奶是80年代初從大陸移民來溫哥華的老華僑,故鄉是'鄉下',(在城市近郊以務農為生的那種).盡管他們已來了加拿大差不多30年,但其'農民生活模式'多年不改.

他們不願意用洗衣機,乾衣機,喜歡所有衣服都用手洗和涼衫,會把室內有暖氣出的位置都掛些衫褲.奶奶更要堅持把衣服揚開涼,會把衣服poo在沙發上,椅背,樓梯欄杆這些位置. 由於天天洗衣,這種情況天天發生.

奶奶對收集膠袋膠盒鐵罐之纇的東西情有對鍾,收集一大堆又用不著,就隨意堆機在廚房一角.

她亦有把wet膠袋掛在窗口當眼處風乾的習慣.她知道我不喜歡,趁我上班的時候才涼.但我有時候早下班,會從遠處看見自己家的客廳窗口有個紅膠袋在隨風飄揚,入門後樓梯欄杆掛著內衣襪子,那種厭惡感湧住上心頭...有時會忍不住面黑,但從未宣之於口

打開雪櫃會看見大量紅白黃膠袋重重包圍的食物,膠袋裡面是甚麼,放了多久,我從來不知亦從不過問.我們分開吃,所以我只會用自己處理過的食物.

奶奶信佛,喜歡一邊看電視,一直'南麼阿彌陀'...我無法說出口叫她收聲.私下跟老公說過,但知道這是奶奶過去20多年的習慣,我也不忍要老人家難堪.最後甚麼都沒說.

奶奶很念舊,從不扔東西,到今時今日還用著1980年從中國大陸帶來的衣服鞋物,有時同她上街飲茶,坦白說她的打扮會讓我覺得很尷尬.她打死不肯在這裡買衣服,試過買了一堆新衣服給她當禮物,她通通給refund去,一件不留.不管老爺,老公都說新衣服好看200倍. 她依然故我,作農婦打扮上街.唉...

如果你是我,你會點做?

作者: utopia 時間: 2008-1-9 19:01

Yui,

for your case, I cannot give any suggestion since they are so old and have been to Canada for so long....

Your case is similar to caveman's mom, she been in Canada for almost 10+ years but she did not change one bit of 農民 style...........but not as extreme as your lai lai because at she was "a manager in an international trading company" back to the days when she was in China............................ but still have 農民 style.........like knee on the carpet to chop things, buy many useless stuff from China and never throw away..etc etc.

It's hopeless and I don't think they will change because they are old already.
It's like asking ourselves to quit some habit that we have been doing since we were a kid............

作者: utopia 時間: 2008-1-9 19:05

Yui,

You are facing a situation that what my mom is experiencing at this moment in Asia.
She lives with my grandparent and my grandmother is very sick and barely can walk.
Yet, they never wear anything new even we bought them tons...... and the whole apartment, I seen it this year, I feel so sad that my mom seems like living in "lung uk area" or ..........like a begger..............

1000 times worst than your lai lai ............. the only thing my mom can do is clean clean clean and clean everyday (because my grandmother cannot control herself, so pee and poo poo everywhere in the apartment) ..............because they will never hire a maid; worrying that the maid will kill them and steal all their money..............

ai......... the best way is just live separately .to avoid conflict and argument..

作者: big_tooth 時間: 2008-1-9 19:15

Yui,

I don't have any suggestion as I don't see how changing their lifestyles is an improvement to their lives. Improvement for your sake definitely, but....

作者: Alcoholic 時間: 2008-1-9 20:12

Yui,
your lai-lai is kinda like my 嬤嬤 in hk。她已前細個偷盜落香港。我嬤嬤最鍾意收集膠袋, 紙袋，橡根，報紙，雜誌，各酒樓既牙籤，繩，布碎

一個字：HAN (aka 不浪廢）嬤嬤從來都唔著新衫。。。 if you buy it, she will wear once, then neatly save it in the deepest corner of her closet, 唔拾得著。once, buy her shoes, let her pick, she 乜都up頭話好... wear it once, & forever put aside. when we ask her many many times, she finally say she don't wear it because 刮腳。 so we ask her why agree to buy it, she always 笑笑口得個hole. my dad & uncle gives her alot of allowance each month. yet, 她兩磚"腐yu" or one small piece of 鹹魚送一碗飯就當一餐。最多煮多兩條菜，咁就可以食多一餐。工人煮，她又話唔岩胃口，叫她自己落街買野食，又唔制。when we go back to hk, we never touch her leftovers in the fridge because for sure over 3 days +

our solution:
講，tum, 罵(by my dad only) 係冇用既~ sorry to say, but daddy 有次落order, when grandma is out, we all have to throw out some of her "collections"。 we approximately threw out 40% of each type of collection

when she come home, of course, she notice la! but when dad is in hk, she will keep her murmurs low. when dad is out for business....HA! 我同媽咪，老公，細佬妹就有3日說話聽喇。。。

space is limited in hk, so we had to do it because there's just no more space. about the clothes etc...都冇辦法，因為她係唔著，妳都吹唔脹~

back to Yui's troubles:
- the hanging wet bags on windows... MAYBE you can try to tell her that it's not good to do that because if it blows off, then neighbours can complain that you're littering? aiii
- tv.... when she 南麼阿彌陀, is she really watching tv, praying out loud & listening AT THE SAME TIME? oh god.... if she can multi-task like that...then can't really do much because she actually knows what is going on on the tv wor....
- as for your lai-lai's collection... maybe try to convince her to recycle the bags etc... since she grew up in rural area...maybe say it will help nature? hahahaha... aiya... sorry ar, your case is physcially tough, where us other girls have personality tough situations~

worse come to worse.... the same 宗子that we all use & find effective: 後埋，忍，& 算

作者: Alcoholic 時間: 2008-1-9 20:14

big tooth,
then please define what group your wife is in. let us have an eye opener.
also, why are you always saying that people are not welcoming advice & construction criticism when we're doing case studies here? my suggestion to you would be to accept other people's differences, & accept that people use a different method than your wife's, and things are still working out. like your wife's style... trying to explain people's "illogical" deeds is good wor, but what's wrong with not wanting to make up an excuse for the "illogical" but yet still solve the problem? besides, unless the lai-lai say so clearly herself, otherwise, what your wife explains to herself is subjective, just for her own comforting...something that makes some sense to her. and isn't that what we all do here? besides, as i say, if we don't want to think of some "logical" reason, as long as we solve the problem is fine. it doesn't matter what the "reason" is, because you will never know, because you will never be that person.

CWong,
because this is a specific topic. if you want to discuss about other relationships... open a new thread, & us C9's will jump right in

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2008-1-9 21:08

I just heard .. there is a TVB series .. called 野蠻奶奶大戰戈師奶 ...

(what an ugly name! )

Is it because some people watched those kind of TV so much? and then concern about 奶奶 problem ??

作者: Alcoholic 時間: 2008-1-9 22:03

咁岩我第既個係同D奶奶某些方面唔係咁夾姐。。。
maybe people have problems with 老爺，或者其他親戚呢。。。
but seems like wive VS lai-lai is most common of them all for some reason~

作者: 華美子 時間: 2008-1-9 23:33

Alcoholic，我奶奶唔只慳，仲係環保之星，好少用膠袋不特只，保鮮紙洗完再用。有次想用我包過生豬肉既保鮮紙包飯，好在我立即dump左張保鮮紙。

奶奶走左，唔洗再食一pat pat既野囉，今晚整左蜜汁蒜子骨，老公食到 lam lam 利。

作者: big_tooth 時間: 2008-1-10 04:15

原帖由 Alcoholic 於 2008-1-9 20:14 發表
big tooth,
then please define what group your wife is in. let us have an eye opener.
also, why are you always saying that people are not welcoming advice & construction criticism when we're doing cas ...

Alocholic,

I really like what you said.  "Accept other peoples difference and accept that people's method", it applies to the discussion you and I are having, and also applies to relationship with inlaws.

I'm not imposing my wife's method on people, but I guess when I post it, it's as you said to Blueprint, I'm not being understanding and I'm  making it like you guys are immature.  And clearly I must belong to either group 1 or group 3.  No way a group 2 person would say what I've said.  We're not group 1, and definitely not group 3.  Where will you put me and some others then if our comments make us not belong to group 2?

I can tell you, when my wife think of the logical reasons, she is not trying to comfort herself, but she is protecting the other person, giving them the benefit of the doubt first.  And that is my point, to give others the benefit of the doubt (as oppose to finding ways to comfort yourself).  I agree it is hard and complicated living with people, but any method we apply to better the situation need to come from the heart.  If it's not from the heart, eventually people will get sick and tire and blow up.  Giving a happy face at home then come onto the internet and vent is telling me that happy face is not from the heart.

What is logical and illogical is also subjective.  I'll give you an example, my dad one day said to me in front of other family member that I shouldn't be taking advantage of my wife.  At the time I thought my wife and I were nothing like what he said. Very illogical as it seem at the time.  But then one day as I was doing the exact same thing then I remember what he said, and I realized that I was doing it while my wife and I both not even realized it.

作者: Alcoholic 時間: 2008-1-10 09:17

big tooth,

just because i claimed that we are "mature" has nothing to do or suggest the fact that we think that you think that we're immature.

as you mention, this is sorta like a discussion between me and you. discussion... NOT arguement. i'm not mad, or mun at you or anything. so please don't make it toned like we are biting on each other. it's just a pleasant talk. so don't take it too personally.

and i never said that you tried to imposed your wife's method on us either. i think i said pretty clear that it's fine, it's just that we didn't choose to take that method ja wor.
the groups are how i think. & since i hear that you don't fit yourself into the groups that run into my mind, i did offer you to define the group that you feel best describes you.

and also, when did we not give our lai-lai's actions doubt? the "lai-lai examples" from me, Yui, 華美子 are clearly because the lai-lai's are han, religious/lifestyle habbits... there is no doubt for that wor.

as for the example that i gave about my lai-lai relating me stepping on my hubby, i already suggested the fact that she probably doesn't like my white-washed thinking/preference, that's why she said such thing to bring it up. if i add to my "doubt" that [ MAYBE my lai-lai wants me to become more traditional chinese/honger, so that she can get along even better with me ] <-- would that make you feel i have more doubtful space to "protect" my lai-lai? but even so, sorry. no can do. that's the way SHE grew up. this is the way I was bought up. pui her do things she likes, understanding her needs, speaking more chinese etc is already good enough. it's not like i needa transform myself to her likings, revolve around her. besides i am who i am.... THIS is the person that HER son married for. as people said in this discussion, i chose my hubby, my hubby chose me. but none of us chose my lai-lai. kinda mean to your ears right? but it's true.

so, did we not try to give our lai-lai's space for consideration?

i hope that you have never faked a smile in your life, or held back your emotions infront of other people in order to keep the situation cool. cus that ain't coming from the heart either. if everyone displays everything true from the heart/ take it all out, it will end up hurting even more. that's being inconsiderate, & selfish. of course, people have the right to display all your feelings, but that's not the way to interact socially. there's a difference between being "fake", and "hiding your true self"... if we did that, that would be self-centered. a better way to put it rather than "hiding our true selves" is: we are just displaying our best socially accepted qualities.

as for your example, that's great. but as i mentioned before, there are times that i feel that some elders comments are correct. it doesn't even need to take the next time we're doing it to realize it. as for venting... how do you expect people to like differences that you're not accustomed to from your heart? you just accept that fact, work it out by smoothing out the corners & get used to it when it comes again. some things, people can adapt to. but other things, no matter how hard you try, just can't happen. & that's how we deal with it.

[ 本帖最後由 Alcoholic 於 2008-1-10 09:29 編輯 ]

作者: Yui 時間: 2008-1-10 09:27

原帖由 華美子 於 2008-1-9 23:33 發表
Alcoholic，我奶奶唔只慳，仲係環保之星，好少用膠袋不特只，保鮮紙洗完再用。有次想用我包過生豬肉既保鮮紙包飯，好在我立即dump左張保鮮紙。

My lai lai has a habbit of reserving and recycling tissue papers, she would unfold the crumble wet tissue and flat dry on the table (she said they are clean, just water).When my hubby and I see these sad wrinkled tissue papers, we just toss them.

Lai lai's latest strategy is to put them back to the tissue paper box, so that we would not notice and throw them away.

作者: Alcoholic 時間: 2008-1-10 09:31

Yui,

hahaha.... my grandma hides her collection in similar ways too!

作者: utopia 時間: 2008-1-10 09:42

Ai.... Now listening to the C9 crew on LYK which make me worry.

Yesterday, same scenario happening again...... caveman squeeze out half day to "pui" his mom.......... then it happens like a cycle

1) Caveman told her in the future (in a very soft tone), her account will remain $5 (which he didn't finish the conversation yet). And she act up right the way said "What?? I have money in my account!!!" ...Then caveman didn't bother to argue with her and asked her "Isn't it you always said you want to get 'lo yan gum' from government?? If you want to get the full amount of 'lo yan gum', then you have to keep your account low and transfer the 'lo yan gum' somewhere else, right?'

2) His mom always turn the heat so high but his basement is very very small..... and every time we go back to his house; the heat is too high that I keep drinking water and hardly breathe or make me very sleepy. Then yesterday, Caveman can't stand her anymore and "kindly" point out to her that. She shouldn't turn up the heat too high. First, it will make people sleepy, secondly, it's bad for the body and for the skin...... THEN, her mom used her "winning skill" again. " Gum I am old ar mah, my body heat is not as high as you guys so I keep the heat so high lor" (seriously, it feels like summer in his basement and it's a very very small basement too)

3) They were at Cosco and her mom was testing the food sample. Right after she done eating it, she just throw away the paper on the shelves~!?!?!?! Then, Caveman was mad and tell her not to do it again. She didn't deny this time but give him "face" that she dun give a damn. BUT on the other hand, she keep laughing at people from China acting like countryside people or they are so loud and bad manner. AND she is doing EXACTLY the same..............

ai.................. and I can understand yui's situation and I already foreseen these in the future as her mom started to hang clothes in the bathroom...

作者: Yui 時間: 2008-1-10 09:54

big tooth, sorry I did not read every posting of yours but it seems like you are annoyed with daugthers in-law whining at public forum, correct?

May I know why does that bother you? Is it immoral or gossipy?

I'm not challenging you... but just abit confused. Thank you!

作者: utopia 時間: 2008-1-10 10:00

原帖由 Yui 於 2008-1-10 09:27 發表

My lai lai has a habbit of reserving and recycling tissue papers, she would unfold the crumble wet tissue and flat dry on the table (she said they are clean, just water).When my hubby and I see thes ...

Die la............ yui and alc, you guys are scaring me because .........your lai lai or grandma is like extreme version of caveman's mom..... and it seems to transforming into that kind of situation...

In his mom's room, I can find different kind of stuff. Bag of rice, 'fancy plastic bags'(which is not really, but to her, yes), magazine, can food etc.

In her new accord, I can find a BUNCH of wet tissue from restaurant; Apple, Candy, snack, blanket, puffy jacket, two unknown plastic tray (those one that for holding glass bottles), plastic bagssss, anything dun belong to a V6 Accord, you can find in her car............

Cooking way way too much for us (her fridge collection is enough for a family of 8.........), and she will not eat "old dishes" and force caveman and I eat the "old dishes". When we are so full and ask her to eat with us, she will make up different excuses like she already ate at 3pm or she will have dinner in workplace or she is not feeling well etc etc etc... to make us to get rid of the old dishes......... and we keep telling her not to cook so much........and she won't listen~~~ Always make soup LARGE enough for 6+ people.........and we both only able to drink a bowl or two max (talking about big bowl you see in restaurant).................

And she has unlimited supply of wooden chopsticks and old ugly dishes that she won't throw away. She used to have a restaurant, and those supply was from the past. She won't throw those away....and not until recently, Caveman and I can't stand it anymore. We pull out EVERY SINGLE of her collection in her living room and forced her to face how much garbage she has....then she finally realize and told us to sell it in garage sell (which NOBODY buy ANYTHING from us at all...........) ..........and now those garbage is sitting at my house's storage and SHE PRETENDS those garbage are gone...............

Oh, and she has UNLIMITED broken luggage bags from China. Those looks nice ONLY and once you try to use it, either the wheel is broken or the zipper cannot be close after you stuff in your clothes.....And whenever we asked her why she has to buy these easily broken things all the way from China to Canada..... then she will reply with her favorite line "Not me, I didn't buy those. It's your aunt who buy those ji mah. I told her not to buy" (which we all know it's not true.........his aunt always mad at her for buying extreme cheap stuff from china and import them to Canada.....) She can buy like 10 pair of shoes (look exactly the same) just because 10 pair of shoes can get a better price in China..............

And she put an extreme ugly red luggage bag out for almost a year now and said she will throw it away and...................... I never see any action ........

作者: utopia 時間: 2008-1-10 10:03

原帖由 Alcoholic 於 2008-1-9 20:12 發表
Yui,
your lai-lai is kinda like my 嬤嬤 in hk。她已前細個偷盜落香港。我嬤嬤最鍾意收集膠袋, 紙袋，橡根，報紙，雜誌，各酒樓既牙籤，繩，布碎一個字：HAN (aka 不浪廢）嬤嬤從來都唔著新衫。。。 if you buy it, she will ...

OMG, your grandmother sounds like my dad hahahahaha

作者: Alcoholic 時間: 2008-1-10 11:02

Yui,
maybe big tooth is just too proud of his wife being 為人諗，心地好, put other people in first place...? i don't understand either... it's not like we don't understand or accept his point wor~

Twin,
haha...
welcome to the world of C9!!

作者: big_tooth 時間: 2008-1-10 11:45

原帖由 Alcoholic 於 2008-1-10 11:02 發表
Yui,
maybe big tooth is just too proud of his wife being 為人諗，心地好, put other people in first place...? i don't understand either... it's not like we don't understand or accept his point wor~

Twi ...

Actually, judging from your response to my post, I don't think you understand my point. I think it's my ability to express it clearly.

作者: Alcoholic 時間: 2008-1-10 12:16

you said:
- don't always think that when there's a conflict it's the other party's fault. keep minds open
- try talking it out, make effort to solve it both sides
- don't talk behind one's back
- some people here not not accepting advice & some negative comments
- we don't understand/think for the lai-lai's side
- you like how your wife is not "comforting" herself, but rather "try to understand" the other person.
- if we "suen" & smile/act like nothing happened, then vent out on internet is not sincere
- illogical will become logical when one day you finally understand & feel for the comment that the other person made about you

i actually went through all your posts in this thread & took down the main points in short. unless you really can't express yourself accurately, i don't think i missed anything, nor the "big picture" that those points composes wor

作者: Yui 時間: 2008-1-10 12:20

Alc, I respect other's opinions and comments, but not necessarily agree to them.

One good example: "Open Communiation" with my Lai Lai will never work, it is a FACT proven by repeated FAILURE. Some people may think because my hubby and I are lacking proper communication skills and not able to deal with seniors, etc. I just laugh it out. Yeah right.

Happy to find out that you and I share the same philosophy re Lai Lai vs daughter in-law relationship. I behave exactly the same like you. Some of my Lai Lai's practices do annoy me very much, and I could get quite upset sometimes, but that does not mean we have a bad relationship.

I like sharing my experiences, expressing some thoughts, and learning from individuals who are in similar situations, such as Alc, Littleprice, Hua Mei Zhi here at LYK. As simple as that. Thanks for sharing guys!

作者: big_tooth 時間: 2008-1-10 14:26

- don't always think that when there's a conflict it's the other party's fault. keep minds open
Very true

- try talking it out, make effort to solve it both sides
No, I actually think it's the son's (husband's) responsibility to solve the problems

- don't talk behind one's back
No.  The point is we often do the same things that we complain about others, it just might be in a different form.

- some people here not not accepting advice & some negative comments
More like dismissing others as inexperienced and not understanding

- we don't understand/think for the lai-lai's side
In some cases, yes.  Or we think we do but really don't.

- you like how your wife is not "comforting" herself, but rather "try to understand" the other person.
Try to understand is right.  My wife is just an example.

- if we "suen" & smile/act like nothing happened, then vent out on internet is not sincere
If I act like I'm happy, forcing myself to smile etc.  I definitely think so if that person I'm doing it to is supposed to be close to me.

- illogical will become logical when one day you finally understand & feel for the comment that the other person made about you
Not sure I understand it right.  My point is illogical to you might very well be logical in reality (and I must emphasize the MIGHT).

作者: 華美子 時間: 2008-1-10 14:50

唔好意思，我唔係講邊個，只係有Ｄ唔係好明，如果呢度有Ｄ老友記叫老友記C9反省下要忍氣吞聲要盛，但係句句都同老友記師奶頂，自己都忍唔到又點解叫人忍？我指既係我之前開個 thread 入面既 case。

作者: Alcoholic 時間: 2008-1-10 15:41

big tooth:

- don't always think that when there's a conflict it's the other party's fault. keep minds open
Very true
(complaining/whining/venting does not mean automatically the fault is blame on the other party)

- try talking it out, make effort to solve it both sides
No, I actually think it's the son's (husband's) responsibility to solve the problems
(icic...)

- don't talk behind one's back
No.  The point is we often do the same things that we complain about others, it just might be in a different form.
(we understand, and some lai-lai's probably vent to her C9 friends about us too. but as we can see here, i don't complain that my lai-lai is more honger traditional than i am, and of course, Yui, 華美子, utopia does not collect recycle-able items in bulk, nor reuse food wraps etc. so imo in this thread's case studies, we did not reciprocate the same thing in different form.)

- some people here not not accepting advice & some negative comments
More like dismissing others as inexperienced and not understanding
(the C9's here are sharing each other's experiences, examples. so how can we dismiss/reject other's understanding? i'm sure you're just as experienced too. it's just that the only thing you're not an experienced at is being C9, because you are not one, & will never be one. no offence or sexist intended.)

- we don't understand/think for the lai-lai's side
In some cases, yes.  Or we think we do but really don't.
(if then... see the one below)

- you like how your wife is not "comforting" herself, but rather "try to understand" the other person.
Try to understand is right.  My wife is just an example.
(even if you & your wife tries to understand, then trying is all that matters if the above is true. so i think all the C9's here, including your wife did try, but "in different form" as you put it)

- if we "suen" & smile/act like nothing happened, then vent out on internet is not sincere
If I act like I'm happy, forcing myself to smile etc.  I definitely think so if that person I'm doing it to is supposed to be close to me.
(from my reply before, then what would your suggestion be? be sincere, & give your real face & emotions, & see where it will take the problem? or keep quiet & be not sincere, & take into consideration of the other party as you "try to understand" the situation? there's nothing wrong with you feeling a close person acting that way is being not sincere...but as a person giving us C9's some constructive criticism, you still haven't answered which advice to give)

- illogical will become logical when one day you finally understand & feel for the comment that the other person made about you
Not sure I understand it right.  My point is illogical to you might very well be logical in reality (and I must emphasize the MIGHT).
(define reality. reality as in "the other party"? reality as in "the majority 3rd party"? or did i miss an possible answer here? as for logical... the only "true logic" is to lower the problem/damage as close to 0 as possible. so i guess...that statement doesn't make sense or "logical" itself)

[ 本帖最後由 Alcoholic 於 2008-1-10 15:48 編輯 ]

作者: big_tooth 時間: 2008-1-10 18:54

(complaining/whining/venting does not mean automatically the fault is blame on the other party)

Agree, but there is no conflict with what I said.

(we understand, and some lai-lai's probably vent to her C9 friends about us too. but as we can see here, i don't complain that my lai-lai is more honger traditional than i am, and of course, Yui, 華美子, utopia does not collect recycle-able items in bulk, nor reuse food wraps etc. so imo in this thread's case studies, we did not reciprocate the same thing in different form.)

Just as an example, some of us don’t like some people being “long tongue”, but I know most of us also talk to friends or family and on the internet about what person “a” did what to person “b” etc etc. Or another example, I don’t like people giving me the “black face”, but I actually giving those people the “black face”.  It’s just something for us all to think about.

(even if you & your wife tries to understand, then trying is all that matters if the above is true. so i think all the C9's here, including your wife did try, but "in different form" as you put it)

I don’t think one can draw the conclusion that trying is all that matters.  Just as華美子’s case, her mother in law was just trying to cook a meal for them, what is the problem?  Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying bad cook isn’t a problem.

(from my reply before, then what would your suggestion be? be sincere, & give your real face & emotions, & see where it will take the problem? or keep quiet & be not sincere, & take into consideration of the other party as you "try to understand" the situation? there's nothing wrong with you feeling a close person acting that way is being not sincere...but as a person giving us C9's some constructive criticism, you still haven't answered which advice to give)

I must say I’m caught in a catch 22 here.

(define reality. reality as in "the other party"? reality as in "the majority 3rd party"? or did i miss an possible answer here? as for logical... the only "true logic" is to lower the problem/damage as close to 0 as possible. so i guess...that statement doesn't make sense or "logical" itself)

Reality as in facts, action completed.  Hmmm, so if the mother in law is trying to reduce a perceived damage to zero then her action is “true logic” right?  I guess I don’t understand who and how “true logic” was defined.  I thought logic is not an action.

作者: big_tooth 時間: 2008-1-10 20:08

原帖由 Yui 於 2008-1-10 09:54 發表
big tooth, sorry I did not read every posting of yours but it seems like you are annoyed with daugthers in-law whining at public forum, correct?

May I know why does that bother you? Is it immoral or ...

Yui, don't worry about it, I don't mind your questions at all.  Afterall, it's an open discussion here.

In this thread, most of you guys choose to post the wife's POV (and I totally understand why), I just happened to have chosen to see it from the mother-in-law's POV.  When you say you think a wife is doing the best she could, I actually see the mother-in-law is doing the best that she could (given the situation).  Without going into details, I honestly felt bad for the inlaws in some cases.

I have no problem with people discussing problems in pubic forum.  When we vent, be prepare to hear different POV, supportive comments and some non-supportive comments, and really be careful what we say here.  When people bring up stuff about others that have absolutely no impact to them, then it becomes gossip, and sometimes these gossip could be harmful, even when you think no one knows you on the internet.

What you said about your in-laws I don't think is gossip as their lifestyles affect you deeply.  I can understand you want to make it better for yourself, or simply want to vent about it.  But unless they also don't like that lifestyle or it's a health issue, otherwise, it really is an improvement for your own sake, not for them.  They're not wrong or bad, just different.

作者: Yui 時間: 2008-1-10 21:04

big-tooth, 其實有你參與這個topic真係幾有意思,因為你既身分既係老公又係仔,而你太太又能與奶奶相見好,同住又好. 你簡直是萬中無一的幸運兒. 你既觀點有一定參考的價值.

但請你也能用你的同理心在我們這班師奶的角度想一想,我們幾個lyk師奶理面,所分享的事件中,有那件你認為我們處理的手法是錯的呢?如果有,你是否有更理想的應對方法呢?
請你賜教两招,我想大家都一定會歡迎.交流一下相處心得,都無壊ㄚ. 這才算是constructive criticism. Right?

E.g. 華美子說﹔「我聽日想食麵，因為想食Ｄ濕野，我會自己煮啦。」

我覺得這樣說法沒有不妥的地方，你卻認為.....

“The problem here is that you said you will cook yourself. This clearly telling her that her cooking sucks. This is not good even if said in a nice tone of voice. “

甘應該點做點講先alright 呢?

老公夾在中間難做人; 其實做老婆又何尚吾係?我係呢到所說關於我奶奶既某ｄ事連我老公我都吾講，係吾想拒難做．如果連在網上都吾能夠吐下苦水．講出心個句，真係要對住個洋娃娃說嗎?　甘咪人都癲?

如果你覺得我們以新抱身分和角度在網上論壇討論婆媳相處是不對的,又認為舉例說明等同'講是非'，得罪講句，我覺得你幾大男人．

[ 本帖最後由 Yui 於 2008-1-10 21:07 編輯 ]

作者: blueprint 時間: 2008-1-10 21:32 標題: 回復 81# 的帖子

都是彼此交流不同的心聲和意見而已，不是甚麼「頂師奶」啦‧

  在這個公開論壇，任何人都有發言權吧‧ 況且Katamari 出題不只是問做新抱的，還有問做老公的聽到老婆話自己阿媽或者阿媽數自己老婆又會覺得點‧ 所以有與所謂師奶論不同的聲音很正常吧‧

你之前開個 thread 入面既 case 當然建議你去忍，以免爆發家變!

從你說奶奶的種種，不好意思，我覺得她好可憐‧因為看來看去她勞心勞力一心去幫你們，換來是這樣的氣氛‧ 雖然，我體諒你甚麼坐月，甚麼憂鬱症；但坐完了，沒有憂鬱了，訴苦之餘，我絲毫感受不到你對她有甚麼感激‧ 好，就說感激這個感覺很被動的，那在訴苦之餘放了個「我奶奶癡了線」的標題‧很誤導人嘛!  我會覺得你沒有這個誠意去接受你的奶奶‧ 但過去了就過去了，沒有新的論點好說，所以再談無益‧ 大家都只是不同而已‧  各自修行吧!

作者: blueprint 時間: 2008-1-10 21:42 標題: 回復 85# 的帖子

「如果你覺得我們以新抱身分和角度在網上論壇討論婆媳相處是不對的,又認為舉例說明等同'講是非」

我覺得 bigtooth 的立場很清楚呀，他不覺得討論婆媳相處是不對的‧Correct me if I'm wrong, bigtooth. 不好的是 ─ 話題變了純粹是發洩而沒有正面的談論等‧這個我很同意‧要不然大家說這個那個不好，好像淪為三姑六婆囉! 都也許沒問題的，但就不要怪誰的奶奶三姑六婆囉!

[ 本帖最後由 blueprint 於 2008-1-10 21:44 編輯 ]

作者: chunsh 時間: 2008-1-10 21:54

原帖由 華美子 於 2008-1-10 14:50 發表
唔好意思，我唔係講邊個，只係有Ｄ唔係好明，如果呢度有Ｄ老友記叫老友記C9反省下要忍氣吞聲要盛，但係句句都同老友記師奶頂，自己都忍唔到又點解叫人忍？我指既係我之前開個 thread 入面既 case。 ...

好多人都講過大話啦﹐你夠膽話俾我聽你未講過大話
o甘唔通你因為自己講過大話而唔教你個小朋友唔好講大話?

其實大家都係吹水o者
o岩聽o米聽﹐唔o岩聽o米當時運高﹐no eye see lor

不過下下同人頂到o甘恆﹐受害既會係你, 老公同你奶奶---- 大家都係輸家

我見過有o的男人係呢方面好慘﹐o係呀媽心中﹐個男人會係一個老婆奴既不肖子﹐o係
係老婆心中﹐個男人就會係成日幫住呀媽黎"蝦"自己既裙腳仔﹐點解? 因為個男人
會o係呀媽面前幫老婆講好說話﹐而係老婆面前就幫呀媽講講好說話﹐希望大家唔好
o甘敵對o羅。

早前香港有單新聞﹐個男人既老婆同呀媽日吵夜吵﹐最後個男人頂唔順跳樓死左......
大家引以為"監"啦

作者: Yui 時間: 2008-1-10 22:53

原帖由 blueprint 於 2008-1-10 21:42 發表
「如果你覺得我們以新抱身分和角度在網上論壇討論婆媳相處是不對的,又認為舉例說明等同'講是非」

我覺得 bigtooth 的立場很清楚呀，他不覺得討論婆媳相處是不對的‧Correct me if I'm wrong, bigtooth. 不好的是 ─ ...

請不要段章取義阿,我說'如果你覺得我們以新抱身分和角度在網上論壇討論婆媳相處是不對的' - 那是回應post84.

無所謂啦,多講無益. 係師奶八婆又好,係三姑六婆又好,其實大家都係吹水o者o岩聽o米聽﹐唔o岩聽o米當時運高﹐no eye see lor (Quote from chunsh)

[ 本帖最後由 Yui 於 2008-1-10 23:00 編輯 ]

作者: ordinary_girl 時間: 2008-1-10 23:07

for god's sake why don't the guys try to live with their mother-in-laws for a change and see can you handle it

作者: chunsh 時間: 2008-1-10 23:15

原帖由 ordinary_girl 於 2008-1-10 23:07 發表
for god's sake why don't the guys try to live with their mother-in-laws for a change and see can you handle it

if the lai lai insist to live with her son and his wife, then it would be the lai lai's fault
but if u pay attention to the original story, its the son and the wife need the lai lai to come to take care the new born baby and the wife

唉﹐真係﹐搞清楚先搬個"神"出黎啦

作者: 華美子 時間: 2008-1-10 23:32

話明吐苦水，奶奶好既一面我都唔會係度講架啦，邊個人咁得閒開個thread 頌讚佢奶奶？開thread 讚自己阿媽都無啦。

我講十樣野，比人抽我五樣野黎插，但係好奇怪，個五樣野其實已經係我之前既thread解釋左，但插我既人都好似睇唔到咁，因此我都無謂浪費口水。

同男人講生仔產前產彼點辛苦，side 氣，等於對牛彈琴。wait till you have a kid of your own and you have to stay home dealing with the crying baby day and night and at the same time living with your mother-in-law, then you'll truely understand.

And sorry, no body requested my 99 to come, not even my hubby. My 99 just wanted to come and stay with us for 3 months.

[ 本帖最後由華美子於 2008-1-10 23:37 編輯 ]

作者: chunsh 時間: 2008-1-11 00:29

原帖由 華美子 於 2008-1-10 23:32 發表
話明吐苦水，奶奶好既一面我都唔會係度講架啦，邊個人咁得閒開個thread 頌讚佢奶奶？開thread 讚自己阿媽都無啦。

我講十樣野，比人抽我五樣野黎插，但係好奇怪，個五樣野其實已經係我之前既thread解釋左，但插我既人都好似睇唔到 ...

其實如果係o甘﹐你奶奶真係小氣同難相處既
但你有無想過其實當中有原因係﹐你奶奶說到底都唔係你呀媽﹐佢點都唔會好像你
自己呀爸呀媽o甘知道你心意(e,g, favourite food, etc) take care得o甘岩你意
思呢??不過﹐正如之前我講過﹐你將來都可能變成o甘﹐到時你未來女"勢"/新抱﹐甘樣think
你﹐你就知味道

also﹐無功都有勞呀﹐聽你口氣你好像岩岩座完月無耐﹐除非你老公唔使搵食o者﹐
如果唔係o的老人家(生孩子經驗者)take care your family﹐我估你同你老公都會好"呢hie" (or o黎計)

無論你奶奶係唔係只不過想見下個grand-child一面而順道來take care 你﹐佢點都
係某些地方幫過你兩母子/女呀﹐點解之前用個甘難聽既topic呢﹐你知嗎? before
I read the content of your post, 我真係以為你奶奶顛左﹐要去mental hospital﹐
仲要幫你報警個種呀

sorry to misunderstood your story, but u can't just blame us. People usually pay more attention to "headings"....

作者: big_tooth 時間: 2008-1-11 03:35

原帖由 Yui 於 2008-1-10 22:53 發表

請不要段章取義阿,我說'如果你覺得我們以新抱身分和角度在網上論壇討論婆媳相處是不對的' - 那是回應post84.

無所謂啦,多講無益. 係師奶八婆又好,係三姑六婆又好,其實大家都係吹水o者o岩聽o米聽﹐唔o岩聽o米當時運 ...

Yui, I don't see how blueprint's post was 段章取義.  I think it was the other way around.  Let me explain.

1. I've explained it a several times that I don't think venting frustration is a problem when the issue has an impact on you.
2. In your example I clearly stated my feeling about "improvement", not about the "gossip".  And I did clearly stated your issue was not a gossip in my mind, and that I felt was alright and understandable to complain about.
3. The comment I made about 講是非 was a specific respond to another comment, and I explained it was meant to say we are sometimes doing the same things (WE, all of us, not just C9)

我聽日想食麵，因為想食Ｄ濕野，我會自己煮啦。
In this example, I didn't say 華美子 is being a bad daughter in law because of what she said.  I meant to give the reason why her mother in law felt upset.  And clearly she was upset.
My suggestion is simply don't say "我會自己煮".  Either just do it the next day and cook enough for your family or tell her, the next day, that you want to try your cooking skills.

作者: big_tooth 時間: 2008-1-11 04:01

"話明吐苦水，奶奶好既一面我都唔會係度講架啦，邊個人咁得閒開個thread 頌讚佢奶奶？開thread 讚自己阿媽都無啦。"
Same as don't expect your mother in law to apologize for messing up your cookwares lor.  Besides, we have time to bitch but no time to praise? What is wrong with this picture leh?

"我講十樣野，比人抽我五樣野黎插，但係好奇怪，個五樣野其實已經係我之前既thread解釋左，但插我既人都好似睇唔到咁，因此我都無謂浪費口水。"
Have you thought about that maybe your 5 things are really bad leh.  Sorry to be blunt, but the more explanation given, the more I see the mother-in-law's side lor.

"同男人講生仔產前產彼點辛苦，side 氣，等於對牛彈琴。wait till you have a kid of your own and you have to stay home dealing with the crying baby day and night and at the same time living with your mother-in-law, then you'll truely understand."
Sorry, disagree.  If husband is not a stay at home dad, then he goes to work, dealt with all the problems there, then come home and deal with the kids' having way too much fun during the day and getting all cranky at night.  There is no rest time during the day, definitely no rest time during the night until all kids are asleep.  Listen to the mom's complaint, then listen to the wife's before going to bed.  And there is the weekend where he is home dealing with the crying babies and at the same time living with your mother (or inlaws)......

Point is, WE UNDERSTAND.

[ 本帖最後由 big_tooth 於 2008-1-11 04:17 編輯 ]

作者: blueprint 時間: 2008-1-11 06:31

原帖由 華美子 於 2008-1-10 23:32 發表
話明吐苦水，奶奶好既一面我都唔會係度講架啦，邊個人咁得閒開個thread 頌讚佢奶奶？開thread 讚自己阿媽都無啦。

人家只知道你奶奶"所謂不好"的一面，對不對？不好意思，就是這些態度，我不敢恭維‧

不要以為不認同你，和你不同的聲音就一定是沒有經過你說的甚麼產前產後，沒有與奶奶或外母住過等等‧ 男人未必不能了解的，特別是做人老公的，為什麼不能不了解呢? 人人不是你，也不是你老公‧ 我結了婚七年了，有兩個小孩了‧ 在我產前產後，我媽和我的奶奶都有和我們同住過，而發生了很多磨擦，但仍然是個好的家庭‧ 而這一個我，現在有份說你態度不敢恭維，那是不是有些地方要想一想呢? 不是要你反省這種語氣，我不敢當‧ 只想讓你了解為什麼我會可憐你奶奶多於你‧

作者: echo 時間: 2008-1-11 07:27

原帖由 ordinary_girl 於 2008-1-10 23:07 發表
for god's sake why don't the guys try to live with their mother-in-laws for a change and see can you handle it

我同我外父外母一齊住過兩年, 當然好多野唔習慣啦, 互相忍讓, 互相尊重, 放開 D.

佢地有唔岩O既我都會出聲, 我有唔岩都要佢地指點.

there is no mistake, only lesson.

作者: 華美子 時間: 2008-1-11 10:31

我都唔想side時間爭論，點都好，多謝你地既意見。

[ 本帖最後由華美子於 2008-1-11 10:56 編輯 ]

作者: blueprint 時間: 2008-1-11 11:34 標題: 回復 98# 的帖子

我知道你改了，但想說句，你所謂的解釋根本不是我說的問題‧ 我的問題其實集中在這個論壇裡，談及你的case的種種當中，你所持有的態度‧

太客氣了，大家都只是討論一下而已‧ 如果讓你覺得是爭論，我在此道歉‧

作者: ordinary_girl 時間: 2008-1-11 12:11

原帖由 chunsh 於 2008-1-10 23:15 發表

if the lai lai insist to live with her son and his wife, then it would be the lai lai's fault
but if u pay attention to the original story, its the son and the wife need the lai lai to come to take ...

i'm sorry but there's no way that i'm gonna read through all those arguments b4 posting. I'm just referring to the starting post of this thread and just wanted to post my own POV and therefore i didn't see where the "original" story is. If you are referring to a reply that is hidden somewhere in this 10 pages of replies or even a post from another thread, then i can't see how
"original" the story is

. Besides, i'm not looking to join in the pointless arguments either

and as for ur info, i'm not a religious believer and i don't believe in god~ "for god's sake" is only a saying that everyone uses on a normal basis and i absoultely can't see any problem in using that phase. But if it will make u feel better, then I'm sorry for bothering your god

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