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標題: High flow catalytic converter... good idea? [打印本頁]

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2009-12-9 11:31 標題: High flow catalytic converter... good idea?

My stock cat has 800 cells, super restrictive, and the after market cat is ~250 cells, on special now for US$300.

Is this a good idea? or should I pass?

(for a 4-cylinders TSX that needs every ounce of power...)

作者: B2L2 時間: 2009-12-9 11:51

Depends on whether you have other mods and whether the cat is the bottleneck. I doubt you will feel any diff just with this cat.

But with $300 less in your wallet, your car should be faster since you will be eating less during X'mas.

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-9 11:55

Have you done intake and exhaust? If not, do intake first.

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2009-12-9 12:02

本帖最後由 ACC-HE 於 2009-12-9 13:07 編輯

Got intake already, but it doesn't make much difference, maybe a little strong in mid-range rpm, but that's it.

The lightweight pulleys does magic though, so much better to drive.

From the TSX forums, exhaust doesn't seem to be restrictive, just the Cat on the '04-'05 are horrible... 800 cells. (400 cells for '06+)

This aftermarket cat I'm looking at is made by MagnaFlow. The only concerns I have are... louder engine noise & slight chance of getting Check Engine Light.

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2009-12-9 12:08

I just got mine as well .. not sure what cell, 100 or 200? I don't even know the different .. how does those "cells" rating work?? I think it claims 25 more HP .. but I doubt .. I will be happy to get 15.

Sadly, no chance to put it on now ... car is under snow anyway .. LOL I read lightweight pulley is good too, but can't really find one ..

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2009-12-9 12:12

本帖最後由 ACC-HE 於 2009-12-9 13:14 編輯

Oh, what car you driving? the UR brand is pretty good.

How does those "cells" rating work?? Well inside the cat, u get some honeycomb structure... cell count is the number of cells in that honeycomb structure. The less cell it has, the higher flow you'll get but you also get less filtering.

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2009-12-9 12:31

So .. the less cell .. is better? ( in term of performance ) but more noise?

And probely lower cost to build less cell? and why they always focus on "HAND MADE CC" then? I assume machine built should be better?

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-9 12:35

Intake doesn't do much at low rpm. It mainly gains in mid to high.

I'm not sure how restrictive is the stock TSX exhaust but it could be the bottlenect after you installed your cat. It's better to do them both at once anyway. Might just do the header as well at the same time

I think with stock exhuast, the new car could just be slightly louder that's all. Check engine light? It depends if the cat is as efficient as the stock one, if not it might pop a code.

作者: Lik 時間: 2009-12-9 12:37

本帖最後由 Lik 於 2009-12-9 12:39 編輯

Don't bother la. If you want something faster / more power, get a new car mah. The TSX is what it is -- an underpowered, understeering pig.

Environmental concerns aside (did you know that the Copenhagen Summit on Climate Change is happening these 2 weeks?), exhaust tuning is a matter of finding your trade off -- everything else being equal, you give up some low end torque to gain some high end power, or vice versa.

For a race car, engine operation pretty much lives exclusively in the high end of the rev range. As such, low end torque means absolutely nothing, so you don't care how much low end torque you give up in exchange for high end power. For a street car, however, low end and mid range torque is needed every single time when you start from a complete stop. Or when you're mulling around town. Or when you're cruising. Or when you are pretty much doing your normal driving on the street.

Another way to look at this is through calculus (certainly you've done that, right?). When you muck around with your exhaust, you are literally playing with the shape of your torque curve. The total amount of useful work you can do is the area underneath your torque curve. By changing the shape of your torque curve, you may or may not end up getting a bigger total area. But the bigger issue is, you need to know where your engine speed typically lies, and tune your exhaust to maximize that region under the curve. If your engine lives in the 4k to 7k range, you tune your torque curve to maximize the area under that range. For a street car, however, the most frequently used region is probably closer to 1k to 4k (or 1k to 5k for a Honda engine).

Think about the kind of driving you'll do, and see if the back pressure reduction make sense for your application.

-Lik

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2009-12-9 12:38

No header, thanks.

Is the price reasonable for a performance cat? US$300 free shipping to Pt Roberts.

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2009-12-9 12:54

Don't bother la. If you want something faster / more power, get a new car mah. The TSX is what it is -- an underpowered, understeering pig.
Lik 發表於 2009-12-9 13:37

oh shut up~

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2009-12-9 12:56

本帖最後由 ACC-HE 於 2009-12-9 13:57 編輯

Thx Lik.

So the question becomes...

Generally how does back pressure reduction improve performance? at what rpm range?

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2009-12-9 13:05

Ok la.. $300 US .. plus shipping .. handling fee .. duty .. etc .. still less then $500 cad, and probbly couple hour installation, so another $300 ..

$800, not bad upgrade!

Tsx is not fast, but nice car for it's price!

^_^

作者: B2L2 時間: 2009-12-9 13:07

For me, I will say 'no' and save that $300 for something else, say tires.

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-9 13:35

For $300 I'll reflash the ECU to get a smoother curve in the mid range.

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2009-12-9 14:02

For $300 I'll reflash the ECU to get a smoother curve in the mid range.
shutterbug 發表於 2009-12-9 14:35

That's US$519 + 2 ways of shipping, and not much gain for my year :S

作者: BarF1 時間: 2009-12-9 14:23

本帖最後由 BarF1 於 2009-12-9 15:31 編輯

You can get a test pipe for less than $300, and even that isn't much help and very polluting ...
So why spend the money on a less restrictive cat ? And I doubt the cat is bolt on ... that means getting someone fab and install a new mid pipe ...

You can spend it on a exhaust, I think the weight reduction is better than the performance gain ... the OEM exhaust is heavy, I got one hanging on my wall ...

but to me, exhaust mod is mainly perceived gain due to higher exhaust noise, I rather let those single digit HP gain alone so I can have a conversation in my car without yelling ...

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2009-12-9 14:28

the cat I'm looking at is a bolt on.

No, not getting test pipe. You tried test pipe? on which car? TSX?

weight reduction... lol.. I can see ppl posting "lose some weight!" comment already...

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-9 14:33

That's US$519 + 2 ways of shipping, and not much gain for my year :S
ACC-HE 發表於 2009-12-9 15:02

reflashing is not for gains, it's for smoother power band and more useable power in mid range. It's good for daily driving. I think that's more important than gaining just a few hp at the most with a cat.

If you lose too much backpressure, your off the line low end acceleration is going to hurt a bit which is stupid because we drive in that range most of the time.

作者: chobit 時間: 2009-12-9 16:49

I don't know alot about the TSX, but I think changing the CAT can be a risky thing to do, unless you know other in your area that have the same setup w/o aircare inspection problem (Vancouver still have aircare right?)
Like other people suggest. That $3xx dollars can be spent at other area to improve your car. There might be ECU flash which can take advantage of higher octane assuming that you are willing to pay for higher gas prices. IF you don't already have some good tires, then tires will make the most difference.
Not sure if that's what you are looking for, but that's just my 2 cents..!

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2009-12-9 17:12

no more aircare program lu~ so is it still risky?

$3xx can't do much other than cat upgrade. Reflash is ~$5xx.

Tires and suspensions are $1k+

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-9 23:56

本帖最後由 shutterbug 於 2009-12-10 00:57 編輯

Cat is not risk la...if it triggers engine code it will probably be your secondary O2 sensor which you can pretty much ignore if there's no AirCare. I think that O2 just measures the cat efficiency; main input for air-fuel should be the primary O2.

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2009-12-10 00:11

Wah . . SB .. may be you should come and install the Cat C for me then ..

No air care here ..

LOL

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2009-12-10 00:14

Hmm.. still thinking if it worth $300...

Most said it doesn't introduce lots of additional noise, just a deeper tone, which I don't mind.

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-10 00:31

Actually I forgot, you can't ignore secondary o2 code because even that will put the car in limp in mode which hurts performance.

CP, I haven't touched cars for ages la. If no AirCare then just run straight pipe no cat la...haha but again not enough backpressure will harm low end.

作者: BarF1 時間: 2009-12-10 08:21

本帖最後由 BarF1 於 2009-12-10 09:23 編輯

o2 code wont have the car in limp mode ... it might run in open loop and you can always run an defouler in there

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-10 08:52

yes BarF1 is right, open loop is what I meant.

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2009-12-10 13:12

the cat I'm looking at has defouler built-in.

What do high performance cat usually cost? Is $300 expensive for a cat?

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2009-12-10 13:15

$300 is not expensive wor .. consider TSX is ~ $40K .. so 1% of the car!

It is not like spending $10K on a S/C ...

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-10 14:53

$300 is not expensive la...call up Acura and see how much they quote you on a stock cat!

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2009-12-10 19:35

$300 is not expensive la...call up Acura and see how much they quote you on a stock cat!
shutterbug 發表於 2009-12-10 15:53

Should be $1K - 2K la..

作者: chobit 時間: 2009-12-11 00:31

Good to know, there is no more Aircare =D I really hated it at the time.....!

no more aircare program lu~ so is it still risky?

$3xx can't do much other than cat upgrade. Reflash is ~$5xx.

Tires and suspensions are $1k+
ACC-HE 發表於 2009-12-9 17:12

作者: Derek128 時間: 2009-12-11 00:42

buy la buy la

作者: pkphilip 時間: 2009-12-12 00:20

If you have money to burn, get the complete set - intake, header, cat, exhaust... that should burn about $4-5k depends on brand la. Since you have a Honda, Spoon or Mugen... hehee.. I am no Honda fans, but that's how much it cost for Mazda. JDM is the best, if you have the money to burn.

Philip

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2009-12-12 08:12

Somehow .. most reading/graphs etc I have seen ... intake/Cat/Exhaust, they will give you more HP and Tor .. ( not much )

However, header will give you more HP, but "LOWER" the torque .... somehow .. (like 8 hp gain, and 3 ft/lb less .. )

Well, I dont really know the logic, nor have enough background to understand that ..
So, I won't go that far for the header .. and much more labour cost ..

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2009-12-12 12:05

header + cat == pretty loud... I don't like that.

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2009-12-30 16:15

Aiya~ just ordered today.

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2009-12-30 16:51

Aiya~ just ordered today.
ACC-HE 發表於 2009-12-30 17:15

Good good!

Mine is still sitting in my garage .. for months ...

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2009-12-30 16:54

Good good!

Mine is still sitting in my garage .. for months ...
Catpiano 發表於 2009-12-30 17:51

WHY? install it already~!

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2009-12-30 17:30

It is COLD and lots of snow here ma .. ( compare to Van )

作者: spoonek4 時間: 2009-12-31 16:52

40# Catpiano

又有補品咁好.....

作者: prelude318is 時間: 2010-1-2 17:40

本帖最後由 prelude318is 於 2010-1-2 18:44 編輯

i have 08 Civic Si K20Z3 motor.. and tell you what.. header makes the most gain out of the I/H/E mod on K-series... either with or without high flow cat... the exhaust is restrictive because of the stupid stock header runners are too short, especially at high rpm range...given the way Honda installed the motor this way( intake at the front, exhaust to the firewall), the exhaust manifold collector and the cat is very close to the head, therefore short exhaust runner........ ... the cat is restrictive but for sure not as restrictive as the header

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-1-3 00:20

I see.. but Comptech's vibrates pretty bad on TSX ppl said... JDM ones don't fit.

So... no choice.

作者: spoonek4 時間: 2010-1-3 11:57

43# ACC-HE

邊個話唔FIT﹖俾D 毒品你嘆下先！

專出俾2400CC CL9既FEEL'S 蕉
http://www.hondatwincam.co.jp/products-cl9-001.html

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-1-3 15:18

嘩～ Spoonek4，你果條 Feel屎蕉成 Cdn$1700，擺明係想道人升仙嗟～

-力

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-1-3 15:19

43# ACC-HE

邊個話唔FIT﹖俾D 毒品你嘆下先！

專出俾2400CC CL9既FEEL'S 蕉
http://www.hondatwincam.co.jp/products-cl9-001.html
spoonek4 發表於 2010-1-3 12:57

thx, but no thx.

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-1-3 15:56

feel's header... US$2,197.65 , special order, takes at least 2 months... keke... no way.

作者: spoonek4 時間: 2010-1-3 18:44

力哥: 俾你講中晒......

咁即係唔係冇choice或者唔FIT啦.......

FEEL'S 一路以黎都有D 幾靚質素既ACCORD料，所以我一向都幾鐘意呢隻牌子。

作者: Derek128 時間: 2010-1-3 19:02

平D O既 DC Sports Headers - Direct OE Replacement 2004-2005 Acura TSX

2004-2005 Acura TSX AHC6016 $335.87
http://www.car-stuff.com/mmparts/acura-tsx/headers.html

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-1-3 19:05

平D O既 DC Sports Headers - Direct OE Replacement 2004-2005 Acura TSX

2004-2005 Acura TSX AHC6016 $335.87
http://www.car-stuff.com/mmparts/acura-tsx/headers.html
Derek128 發表於 2010-1-3 20:02

ya, but their flex pipe leaks, 2 pieces instead of 1, and heavier than comptech's.

作者: Derek128 時間: 2010-1-3 20:31

maybe you can try those K series knock offs on honda-tech

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-1-3 22:53

I'm done.. i'm done... no need anymore mods

作者: spoonek4 時間: 2010-1-3 23:10

我成日都同字典仔咁講，actually我換車果陣都話唔改呢部.......

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-1-3 23:13

yup.... i gotta say that to myself all the time....

作者: Derek128 時間: 2010-1-3 23:30

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2539769

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-1-3 23:32

本帖最後由 ACC-HE 於 2010-1-4 00:44 編輯

that's a K20 Header though...

btw, is it easy to buy parts for CL9 tsx in HK? Any site with listed price?

作者: Derek128 時間: 2010-1-3 23:49

http://eshop.supergt.com.hk/prev ... me=&x=0&y=0

作者: Derek128 時間: 2010-1-3 23:56

that's a K20 Header though...

ACC-HE 發表於 2010-1-4 00:32

thats easy
get a k20a head swap

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-1-4 12:07

http://eshop.supergt.com.hk/preview/chi/stock.php?partno=&model=CL9&bname=&x=0&y=0
Derek128 發表於 2010-1-4 00:49

Thx, glad there's nothing i want.

作者: Derek128 時間: 2010-1-4 14:45

solution for CT header
add a hanger
http://www.tsxclub.com/forums/1s ... hanger-support.html

solution for DC header
get a new flexpipe
http://tsxclub.com/forums/1st-ge ... ade-your-thing.html

feel's header pic
http://tsxclub.com/forums/565180-post72.html

買左set monotube避震未呀

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-1-4 22:52

no ah, no where to buy, and they said it was not 'tuned' for US road, for some reason.

Thx Derek 兄關心. Yes, the hanger or get new flexpipe seems ma faan, and don't know how much it'll end up costing me. Anyway, pls don't talk me into buying one...

作者: weather0527 時間: 2010-1-6 02:29

holy **** u paid $300USD for a magnaflow cat?
i paid $100 for mine from lordco.

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2010-1-6 09:28

holy **** u paid $300USD for a magnaflow cat?
i paid $100 for mine from lordco.
weather0527 發表於 2010-1-6 03:29

Probably used??

With Labour cost added, $100or $200 different in the part alone, doesn't make that much different to the total bill jei ..

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-1-6 10:45

holy **** u paid $300USD for a magnaflow cat?
i paid $100 for mine from lordco.
weather0527 發表於 2010-1-6 03:29

well, the one I ordered is a bolt-on, no welding needs, plus integrated CEL eliminator.

作者: Derek128 時間: 2010-1-6 19:15

actually 唔見有magnaflow cat for TSX

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-1-7 11:58

actually 唔見有magnaflow cat for TSX
Derek128 發表於 2010-1-6 20:15

Well... they can order the generic one and wield it themselves to fit...

作者: Derek128 時間: 2010-1-7 19:35

如果手功好
唔漏氣
同埋成個setup 唔會再改o既話

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-1-21 16:11

Yay~ no tax crossing border!

happy.

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