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標題: 大家既車車, 現況如何? [打印本頁]

作者: 字典仔 時間: 2009-12-11 02:16 標題: 大家既車車, 現況如何?

本帖最後由字典仔於 2009-12-11 02:17 編輯

有興趣想問下, 大家不如share一下渣咩車, 入咩油, 幾耐換一次油之類去到而家"幾多公里"架車多唔多問題?

car make / model / year / current mileage

1. 有冇warm車習慣? 有既又大概幾耐?
2. 用邊一間油公司既邊隻油?
3. 幾耐換一之油, 用咩油?
4. 有冇d咩自己做左覺得對架車好d既野可以同大家分享下?

如果有多過一架車既朋友就用比較值得share既果架啦

作者: 字典仔 時間: 2009-12-11 02:33

小弟開始先啦, 屋企最高里數果架就黎廿萬 (199,6xxkm and counting), 二手車, 99年Honda Odyssey, 返黎cam帶水泵之類果d一定要, 之後壞要整既野除左通病(例如ignition switch之類)要整之外, 其實波箱係全因之前果手保養得唔好, EGR valve clog左都係, 全部都係carbon, 用咩87!

之後由新車開始渣既就有架99年subaru impreza 2.5RS, 146000km, 除左基本維修保養外, 咩都冇整過, 由新車開始全部4000km換油, 到而家無論放出黎或入落去既油都可能比一d30000km既車, 不過七至八千先換油既車還要好! 最重要係人地要整既我果架唔駛整!

其他果幾架都係04/05/07, 三萬幾到五萬幾...

1. 有, 通常最少warm到水溫錶上到高過C少少先慢慢行, 大約三至五公鐘不等, 如果要行短程可能會再warm耐D
2. Chevron 91/94 only
3. 3000km to 5000km都有, Castrol GTX 到 Motul 300V都有, 不過普遍我都係4000km用Motul 8100, 3000係我架garage queen, 5000km係我架odyssey (不過200k開始我可能會4000)
4. 有好多...lol

作者: yuusaku 時間: 2009-12-11 08:35

honda / civic sedan / 06 / 50000ish

1. no, just keep the rpm below 3k until it reached the normal operating temp
2. chveron regular
3. max 6000, mobil 1
4. use no-streak window cleaning agent, i don't use windex for auto glass

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2009-12-11 08:40

The car I am driving today .. just passed 150,000 km!

So far so good .. I have it for just over 3yr .. put ~ 20,000 km on it., so just 1 oil service has been done so far, the previous owner worked in Lethbridge, so he put ~ 40,000 km/year. (he put ~ 80,000 km/yr in 2 cars)

The other one, which my wife drives most the time, has 48,000 km on it, we lease it since new, and will be done in 2 month.

So far so good as well, did 2 oil service, 1 whatever fluid service, and 1 check engine light fixed... however, about time for new tire, but we will return it in 2 month ...

作者: Littleprince 時間: 2009-12-11 09:05

呢個問題真係要問問買左我架車的那個人了﹐希望它近況也是良好吧

J/K

作者: fibbi 時間: 2009-12-11 10:02

本帖最後由 fibbi 於 2009-12-11 11:07 編輯

2008, I think current mileage around 10K now.

1. No...I go right away.
2. Petro Can 91.
3. Changed oil once...synthetic oil? dunno...I think only change oil in every 15K or 20K?
4. wax once.....

作者: 字典仔 時間: 2009-12-11 11:53

oh yeah, i sent all my family's cars out for detailing once every 1 to 2 years (depends if it's a daily)...it helps the car in a much better shape, i still remember my car was still so shiny it was towed back to ICBC

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-11 12:45

oh yeah, i sent all my family's cars out for detailing once every 1 to 2 years (depends if it's a daily)...it helps the car in a much better shape, i still remember my car was still so shiny it was to ...
字典仔發表於 2009-12-11 12:53

can you recommend a detailer for me and what is the pricing like?

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-11 12:47

本帖最後由 shutterbug 於 2009-12-11 13:49 編輯

carbon deposits in EGR is hard to avoid for high mileage cars la...with 200k it has to burn a bit of oil, not much but more than when it was new, and when it burns oil you know what you get at the end right?

Are those maintenance minder in the newer Hondas dependable? The ECM is suppose to run an algorithm on the inputs and come up with an oil life reading. How dependable is that?

作者: B2L2 時間: 2009-12-11 12:57

Are those maintenance minder in the newer Hondas dependable? The ECM is suppose to run an algorithm on the inputs and come up with an oil life reading. How dependable is that?
shutterbug 發表於 2009-12-11 13:47

I want to know too, since I don't quite trust that reading so far and keeping my own intervals.

作者: B2L2 時間: 2009-12-11 13:15

1. Try to do whenever we aren't late for work.  Maybe 1-2mins and take initial few minutes easy.
2. Shell or Chevron 89+
3. For the Fit, every 4-5000km.  For the Miata, every 5-6 months.  Mobil1 sync most the time, usually brought from US.  Recently brought Castrol sync from CanTire when it was on-sale.
4. just drive it more.

Actually, I used ATF to clean the Miata engine and the in-famous ticker noise is now gone.  Basically doing 2 oil changes in an hour.  I also changed all drainable fluid for the Miata (brake, clutch, trans, diff, shifter).  Changed the ATF for the Fit when it hit 50k.  New K&N and cabinet filters for the Fit, also cleaned the K&N for the Miata.  Don't have time for the coolent flush before winter hit.  Oh, well next spring.

Not too bad for all my DIY this year.  Haha...

作者: sheep 時間: 2009-12-11 13:21

本帖最後由 sheep 於 2009-12-11 14:29 編輯

Forester, show time
10 yrs la

作者: 字典仔 時間: 2009-12-11 17:55

sb: you can pm me for details, tell me year / make / model and color of the car and what stage of work you are looking to get...

the van doesn't burn oil, i dun have to top up in 5000km, no leak neither; i know there will still be blow by but the valve train was pretty clean (fluid doesn't do crazy dark like most car at the same mileage, it has been quite up to shape; also i have noticed cars using 87 will has a much higher chance to get CEL for codes like O2 / knock sensor etc than cars with 94; so i am guessing it's cheap gas related (my other friend's is at 250k, still stock tranny and no issue with cat / o2 / egr etc)....

sb and b2l2: as for those reminder thing, it's never acurate. the ecu just learn from how you run the engine, how long it has been idle to determine the oil life...but does the new engine oil look the same color when u first put it into the engine before start up? ie: put the dipstick in engine, then put the dipstick into a new bottle of oil, does the color look the same on the dipstick? if no, that means the oil was very dirty (leaving you with all the dirt inside the engine), start it up, check for leaks, then compare it again...some time it gets darker after start up, which is not good too...also prolong oil change interval will usually cause condensation which will lead to uneven oil level on the 2 sides of the dipstick...hope that helps?

b2l2: i like that ATF cleaning method, cheap and yet best detergent...lol

作者: tofu 時間: 2009-12-11 19:38

2002 with 90000km

1. warm up till the rpm drop below 1k
2. chevron or petro can 91
3. whenever the service light is on
4. fill up gas more often, not to wait till the gas tank is empty. checked engine oil & tire pressure regularly

changed battery, did detailing couple years ago

作者: B2L2 時間: 2009-12-11 20:41

"condensation which will lead to uneven oil level on the 2 sides of the dipstick"

I haven't heard this before, think I should pay attention to that next time.

Actually for your question #4, running my engine in higher RPM from time to time does help. Just did that around the HWY tonight. Then I though about your question.

作者: 字典仔 時間: 2009-12-11 23:21

tofu: #1 is actually a good way to do, when it drops below fast idle, that means the ecu knows the car is almost ready to go...

B2L2: actually I can show you any time since we live so close by, I dunno if anyone cares about that but a car with very low mileage or extensive oil change period will usually show condensation. just that one with low mileage oil might not be dirty (depends on the oil change period) compares to one that has higher mileage...guess oil break down?

take it out on the hwy is a good way to exercise it, i do that all the time too...usually i just make sure the car has warmed up and driven for about 3 to 5km, then i will start punching it, not first time to redline kinda thing but gradually work it up?!

and usually 3km or so before i park i will ease off, kinda like cool down lap on track day!? those ppl who likes to drive hard till last min then park (like they live on top of a hill and they do have to race the engine up a hill)...car dies pretty much as quick as one that lives at the bottom of a hill and need to cold start then run uphill...

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-11 23:56

Condensation is not a problem for daily use car, given that it runs for a good distance everyday.  As soon as the engine oil temp goes hot, it burns all water in the oil.

Oil colour is not a good way to determine the life of the oil.  This has been a misconception all the time.  Do an oil analysis if you really care.

This is what it said in the manual about Maintenance Minder system: "The maintenance requirements for your xxxxx are determined by an internal algorithm, which considers the engine starting temperature, driving distance and engine RPM. The onboard computer also judges your driving conditions and habits, and then calculates the remaining engine oil life, displaying it as a percentage."  So I think the system is more sophisticated than one might think.  Of course it's not 100% accurate but it should give a fairly close estimate I think.

作者: pkphilip 時間: 2009-12-12 00:17

Mazda3 HB / 2004 (1st gen) / 83000km

1. Warm about 2-3 min in summer, 5 min in winter
2. Taxeco / 89
3. 5000-6000km, either factory 5w20 or Mobile1 Synthetic
4. I don't race, but I like more control and maneuverability, so new rotors/pads, wider/grippy tires, thicker sway-bars and tower bars definitely reduce stopping distance and firmer steering all around.

I am planning to replace all the wear-and-tear parts like spark plugs, wires, belts, etc next year before 96000km and new shocks and springs.

Note to self: Have all the engine mounts inspected next time because I can feel something is loose...

Philip

作者: MSN04 時間: 2009-12-12 01:20

2 cars...

usually just warm up 30s to 1 min then start driving slowly until reaching normal operating temperature
use chevron 94
1 car uses motul, the other one, i am thinking about motul too but looking for place to buy bmw specific. 1 car will change every 5000km, the other one planning to do every 12000km
Use detailing service every year. They do good job on the car

作者: jeje 時間: 2009-12-12 04:12

2007 Camry, 25000km
There was "tic tic" sound under the steerling wheel when runing over the gap on the bridge holes on the road or ditch covers. My friend, the owner of a auto repair shop told me it shoule be come from the sway bar and it need to be tighten. But I send the car back to the dealer to check, they said they could not duplicated the problem and they checked the sway bar and it was ok.

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2009-12-12 08:04

Sigh .. everyday .. after work .. my car is like this ..

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-12 13:35

Calgary 係咁上下

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2009-12-12 13:46

Calgary 係咁上下
shutterbug 發表於 2009-12-12 14:35

Yeah .. SB, don't complain the snow and cold to me la then ...

作者: 布小熊 時間: 2009-12-12 13:49

2005 Impreza about 45000km

1. Warm ~2-3 min and wait for rpm to drop below 1k
2. chevron 91
3. 4000-5000km Motul Synthetic
4. I don't know... got new snow tires last year. Other stuffs, ask my bf la... LOL
oh oh.. we waxed it last thanksgiving.... 3 layers... @@ May be next year we will get it detailed instead....

作者: RennSport4 時間: 2009-12-13 00:14

Audi B7 RS4 28xxx

1. Idling the car to warm up still causing oil starvation on top end. You need to warm up all other parts of the car too such as brakes, tires etc which can only be done by driving.
2. Chevron 94
3. Factory use castrol syntec but I use motul for in between every 6 months.
4. Not much, maybe other than the factory fuel additive every 5k and replace coolant and brake fluid every 2 years.

作者: 字典仔 時間: 2009-12-13 13:55

17# shutterbug

唔同意, 我有個朋友, 07年車而家差唔多九萬, 日日由溫哥華渣去素里, 由於佢新車果時成八千幾九千先換油, 我34000左右幫佢第一次換油既時候一邊既dipstick係min, 另一邊高過max; 一直幫佢勤換油先清番到兩邊差1mm左右, 副engine靜左爽左, 都唔錯丫...

唔駛次次都要send去lab到化驗既, 當然你比錢去化驗下都唔係唔好, 好似我有個朋友兩年前買左架四萬幾分里既05年車番黎, lab都話d舊油唔係咁好 (前車主用synthetic, 六千換一次, 不過冇warm車習慣); 勤換油年幾後攞去再驗, 結果好好多不過我同佢都有目共睹前車主應該breakin period唔係行得咁好, 所以架車都唔太適合long keep? 如果係咁講, 我覺得比錢lab不如換多次油 lol....

至於個on board maintenance reminder system, 好似我個friend架TSX咁, 佢四千零換一次, castrol gtx, 每每oil life 60%佢就打比我, 50%佢就換, 六萬幾佢比起另一架同日過十萬既車仲差...佢渣過佢個friend架同年tsx, 第一個反應係: "大哥, 你有冇換油架?" LOL

作者: celeron_266 時間: 2009-12-13 14:45

08 civic, 1yr3mo old, around 21-22k km

1.  used to (around 3-5min, temp guage not at cold)...but not lately cuz always sleep in and that 3-5min means on time/late...but i try to keep below 3.5k
2.  petrocan/chevron/shell 87 (tried 91 before but see no difference in gas mileage...so went back to 87)
3.  first oil change at 3k, then every 5k, air filter changed with last oil change at 18.5k
4.  none (i know...i take bad care of my car....)

作者: 字典仔 時間: 2009-12-13 21:29

27# celeron_266

how many tank of gas are you comparing? you need to take an average of at least 5 tanks of gas? my odyssey actually had horrible gas mileage first time going up to 94 and had the ECU reset...2nd tank i already have improvement???

作者: celeron_266 時間: 2009-12-13 22:29

本帖最後由 celeron_266 於 2009-12-13 23:33 編輯

28# 字典仔

thats true...but with that many tanks of gas...it probably will be really hard to see a significant improvement...especially now because weather, driving style, route also affects gas mileage...things probably will cancel out each other...

also...one has to consider if it is actually worth the the price premium of 91 gas for the mileage improvement....for example...with my car (automatic trans.)...with the current weather, route (VGH+UBC from richmond daily, burnaby weekly, and whole bunch of in-richmond driving), and driving habits (almost always in a hurry every morning when its the coldest, more relaxed in late afternoon/evening)..with 87 gas i am getting slightly below 9L/100km...currently 91 gas is about 10% more expensive than 87....so in order to actually save money, the 91 gas has to improve mileage by at least 10% (for my car...that will be at least down to 8.1L/100KM) with the same parameters (weather, route, driving style)...which i think maybe a pretty tough goal for the little 1.8L with automatic to reach....

notice i didnt talk about whether 91 gas can give me "more power", "smoother engine running" or if 91 gas can "protect my engine"...because 1. i dont have the proper equipment to measure power...engine smoothness is sort of a subjective opinion....engine longetivity...i guess i dont have enough automotive knowledge to make such a comment...there probably is a "luck factor" in this as well..

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-13 22:58

本帖最後由 shutterbug 於 2009-12-14 00:03 編輯

唔同意, 我有個朋友, 07年車而家差唔多九萬, 日日由溫哥華渣去素里, 由於佢新車果時成八千幾九千先換油, 我34000左右幫佢第一次換油既時候一邊既dipstick係min, 另一邊高過max; 一直幫佢勤換油先清番到兩邊差1mm左右, 副engine靜左爽左, 都唔錯丫...

Honestly I've never heard of this technique before. Uneven dipstick level means condensation is great? Can you point me to some sources that talk about this???

唔駛次次都要send去lab到化驗既, 當然你比錢去化驗下都唔係唔好, 好似我有個朋友兩年前買左架四萬幾分里既05年車番黎, lab都話d舊油唔係咁好 (前車主用synthetic, 六千換一次, 不過冇warm車習慣); 勤換油年幾後攞去再驗, 結果好好多不過我同佢都有目共睹前車主應該breakin period唔係行得咁好, 所以架車都唔太適合long keep? 如果係咁講, 我覺得比錢lab不如換多次油 lol....

Takeing oil for analysis is not for check the engine condition, it's for estimating when the oil should be changed for a "certain" style of driving. For the same driver under the same kind of condition, the oil wear should be similar. So the owner should then know exactly when he really needs an oil change.

至於個on board maintenance reminder system, 好似我個friend架TSX咁, 佢四千零換一次, castrol gtx, 每每oil life 60%佢就打比我, 50%佢就換, 六萬幾佢比起另一架同日過十萬既車仲差...佢渣過佢個friend架同年tsx, 第一個反應係: "大哥, 你有冇換油架?" LOL]

Again, there are too many variables that affect performance between the vehicle. I don't know the details so I can't say if MM is faulty or not.

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2009-12-13 23:02

What is " MM " ar ??

Ding .. I only have oil change for my car every 2 yr wor .. so .. my car will die soon?

( but that is manufactory recomendation .. )

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-13 23:04

MM = Maintenance Minder

I know you want to think MM as female model but it's not in this context....LOL

CP, you don't drive your car enough to see it dies la. You'll change it way before that.

作者: spoonek4 時間: 2009-12-13 23:17

2007 honda fit sport 5速棍波 (57500km)

1. 夏天多數WARM 5分鐘左右，冬天就WARM 10分鐘左右。同樣地都係慢行5分鐘左右先會大腳少少油。
2. 用CHEVRON 92，即宜家既91，好凍既天氣就或者會轉89。用92 車頭行得靜D 順D，一缸油行既里數多20-40KM左右(city)
3. 4000-4500km 左右換一次，用motul 8100 5w30。如果夏天有落場就會換密少少。
4. 有冇d咩自己做左覺得對架車好d既野可以同大家分享下?
5. 習慣左經常check 各種油同水既condition，常check呔氣，一年一次alignment check/adjust，半年至一年bleed一次brake同clutch油

暫時黎講部車都好爽

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2009-12-13 23:18

maintenance minder? well, same as maintenance indicator la, tell you when you need to do whatever service.. I follow whatever my car askes me to la..

My " CAR OF THE CENTURY " had app. 200,000 km before I gave it to my friend wor ..

作者: 字典仔 時間: 2009-12-15 11:05

celeron_266: well...when you said you will do ubc / vgh daily from richmond, bby weekly, and whole bunch of in-richmond driving, that's already easy to even out with an average; some time it's also more accurate if you do that calculation right after an oil change too, but i would say you should average out 2 to 3 tanks of gas mileage before you can tell which gas octane is better for your usage?! I usually don't feel a lot of diff wheather ppl are using 87 / 89 / 92 / 94 until i go uphill or onto the hwy speed (80+), but the most important part is not what you feel or can't feel, it's the hidden problem from carbon builds up etc...my 99 odyssey (probably 200k by this weekend) with 89 i could only get 300 to 330km/tank, which now with 92 I have got 367 for the last tank and this tank seems to be even more?! assume I have to go everywhere for work...

again, I don't notice any performance diff between 89 / 92 unless i go uphill or hauling 6 ppl or some stuff in the van or hwy speed, but overall engine is quieter...

shutterbug: umm I meant uneven dipstick level is BAD, i didn't say it's great, did i? We have done quite a few oil change at about 1000 to 1500km interval and it went from one side at min the other side above max to about 1mm diff in between the two sides...

a lot of ppl actually dun notice anything about "condensation", they only look at the color of the oil but very often they are just used to the "dirty" color...

if that's the purpose for you to do oil analysis, then i can even to do that for ya (just buy me a coffee or sth)...change your oil, bring it to me within 1000km, then i will tell you when i want to see it again

i didn't say MM is faulty, I just dun think they are accurate enough and seems like their standard is quite LOW...

CP: forgot what you are driving but a friend used to have a bmw 330i and she takes it back to dealer every time the service minder tells her to, ave about 22k to 25k and by 70k when her dad was about to buy off the car, he noticed the engine is very noisy and ended up leasing another one and tells her to do it every 8k...she noticed the diff doing it at 8k is not as much as doing it at 22k, but after 2 years 40k she noticed the engine is way quieter...

another friend's land rover freelander, at 55k it's noiser than one that is 110k...one serviced every 2 years like the dealer says (so it was about 22k and 45k) and the other one service every 8k...the 55k one is as noisy as a diesel in my opinion, can probably use a valve adjustment (which for her case, it's not adjustable) while the one at 110k still dun need valve adjustment yet...

作者: 字典仔 時間: 2009-12-15 11:07

CP: 200k ain't much, friend's EF civic is almost hitting 460k i think...

作者: 布小熊 時間: 2009-12-15 11:35

CP: 200k ain't much, friend's EF civic is almost hitting 460k i think...
字典仔發表於 2009-12-15 12:07 PM

yeah... I had my integra till 350k and it's still good. I sold it to an auto-mechanic shop owner!

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-15 11:50

shutterbug: umm I meant uneven dipstick level is BAD, i didn't say it's great, did i? We have done quite a few oil change at about 1000 to 1500km interval and it went from one side at min the other side above max to about 1mm diff in between the two sides...

a lot of ppl actually dun notice anything about "condensation", they only look at the color of the oil but very often they are just used to the "dirty" color...

if that's the purpose for you to do oil analysis, then i can even to do that for ya (just buy me a coffee or sth)...change your oil, bring it to me within 1000km, then i will tell you when i want to see it again

i didn't say MM is faulty, I just dun think they are accurate enough and seems like their standard is quite LOW...

What I meant was I've never heard that uneven dipstick level is a technique to determine condensation in the oil.  If you can, show me sources/links about this as I would love to know more about the logics behind this technique.  I couldn't find any on google!

Unless you run a oil analysis lab, I don't think you can tell me what kinds of contaminents and how much they are present in my oil.  Your advise will just be as good as my educated guess.  I personally don't think I need an oil analysis anyway.

How do you know MM standard is low?  I've searched over the internet for exactly how Honda MM works but nobody can tell me in details.  This system was only widely used in 2006 models I think.  It's not the same as the "maintenance light" system that was used before.  Of course the Honda version of MM cannot detect the oil physically; you still need to check oil level, etc but if the program is sophisticated enough, make a good estimate of when you need an oil change isn't really that hard.  So I was just curious if you know how this system works internally, but it looks like you don't know either.  Btw, Daimler and Flowtronics has developed "oil quality" sensor which comes into physical contact with the oil.  I'm sure more and more of this type of thing will be available in the future and more accurate for sure.

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2009-12-15 14:55

本帖最後由 Catpiano 於 2009-12-15 15:56 編輯

Wah .. what is uneven dipstick level again?

SB, you better message me la..

Anyway .. at the end of the day, it is not 90's now ... used cars worth near to nothing .. no matter in TOP TOP shape .. low km, vs one in average shape, and high km .. in general ..

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-15 15:15

CP that's what I want to know too. What does uneven dipstick level means and the logic behind it.

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2009-12-15 15:56

why don't u .. get the summary .. and message me tonight ar ..

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-15 16:14

why don't u .. get the summary .. and message me tonight ar ..
Catpiano 發表於 2009-12-15 16:56

I'm waiting for 字典仔 to tell me the logics. I'm so curious to know!

作者: spoonek4 時間: 2009-12-15 21:27

我自己就唔係好理d 偈油本身有幾黑，我最主要睇番有冇燒偈油同燒左幾多，anyway我行夠4000-5000km都一定會換，偈油可能仲ok，可能係d 所謂long life engine oil，但係個oil filter 真係好難講佢入面已經有幾塞....

換偈油同波箱油，尾牙油呢d 野好主觀，你換一次偈油由幾廿蚊起手，做一次波箱油drain & fill或者flush 幾廿到百幾蚊不等，一副engine同波箱各需幾千蚊，以一個oil change 50-60cad同一副engine block 3000蚊計，一年換4次油，要換十幾年油先等於換一副block。好可惜我o係做野既地方真係見到好多人唔行到部車冧都唔心息，結果d 04-06年叫做幾新既車，真係要自己出一大筆錢換吹化(engine mis-fire攪到要換cat)/偈/波箱，又或者trade 俾二手車行，比比皆是。

我自己keep 住日日都要部車返工，我就肯定唔會想我部車有d 咩事，我亦唔鐘意部車有問題成日一係渣到提心吊膽，一係就爆晒粗.....

作者: 字典仔 時間: 2009-12-15 21:28

38# shutterbug

shutterbug: 咁不如你又解釋一下油尺兩邊既level既成因? 咩野原因導致到有咁既情況出現? 咁即係有冇問題?有既又係邊? 冇既又點解冇問題? 點解換油換密d又會好d? 換密左好多時侯又靜左又順左, 聽你咁講一定係心理因素? 好多野我都冇答案, 只係觀察同試驗, 相信你都係只不過大家做既試驗係唔同...好多野我都想上網有人可以話我知, 返學可以學到, 身邊比我更有經驗既師傅可以答我? 好可惜, 我聽返黎既睇返黎既就係d人點咁越做就越"事但", 越做就越"求其"...

睇黎, 你都係一個得閒之人, google搵唔到既野唔代表你搵唔到...我都知從來未聽過"水氣"呢樣野, 都係想當年學師果陣有幸得到一位高人所指導:"你都係黎學野既jei, 點解你唔自己搵出個答案? 書係死既人係生既, 你要活學活用先得, 我除左可以教你書本上面既野之外, 其他既就要你去搵出個答案喇; 換油係一樣好基本保養架車既野不過好多人反而會忽略, 你邊到會講得佢地明丫"

我講既野唔係要記服d咩野人, 好老實講, 朋友移居去第二到既都會係msn到問我, 幫得咪幫囉...返香港都幫d朋友睇車, 唔通我又有錢收? 再講, 我就算比到幾多樣野你睇你係唔care就係唔care...你又唔係唔識車, 係咪?

仲有, 我冇話過我會睇得到d油裡面有咩污濁野/雜質, 污濁咪污濁換密d囉, 換密幾次都唔得有古怪先send D sample出去都唔遲; 下下咁send唔駛錢呀? 返黎好又點唔好又點呢? 既然係唔好不如換好佢先send佢出去睇下有冇事? 換極都唔好send出去攞個report返黎等自己安心去換車都唔錯丫?

咁如果換完油著車前唔黑, 著之後先變深色/啡色 vs 一入落去就變深色/啡色著完都係一樣 vs 入落去就變深色/啡色著左車又ok, 邊個會係有問題呢?

你唔駛oil analysis定係你唔敢呀? 我又唔介意大家做個實驗, 睇下我睇完同你send出去返黎之後差幾遠? 做埋個compression test又點話, 我都好想知道我有冇退步?

我點知MM standard低? 因為對於我黎講低囉! 換完d油都仲黑(至少放廿分鐘, 用castrol gtx / motul, 原廠油隔), 咁如果佢既standard唔低, 可能係我高啦, 乜換完油d油唔應該乾淨架? aiya 攪錯晒tim...原本google search出黎而家06年之後既車換完油黑係正常, 唔怪得d廠將個service interval越拉越長, 咁不如我地係唔係都拉長佢咪得囉?

請賜教

作者: 字典仔 時間: 2009-12-15 21:36

43# spoonek4

人, 唔死過係唔識驚既, 再講丫, 而家d新車咁平, 舊車又唔值錢, keep 黎仲乜?

不過假設渣緊一個full load civic, lease 四年都萬幾, 期間又唔係乜都唔駛整, 可能整少d啦, 我架civic十年都係折舊左萬二(雖然唔係full load, 再講icbc仲要比我top book, 不過私人賣我最多都係少一千)?

其實好多時候都要睇一個人有幾錫車, 愛車之人同用車之人係兩回事黎既....可能我地有d人真係接受唔到架車唔順, 會壞啦...不過有d人渣住個炸彈又未必知, 有d又驚渣住個炸彈頻頻換車...咩人都會有架喎

作者: spoonek4 時間: 2009-12-15 21:58

車同屋一樣，都係一個investment，一樣係要勤保養，唔保養就好可能會搵日失驚無神搵d 野黎嚇下你.......

之所以有師傅係專做水電煤氣渠務可以幫人做各樣保養，再你自己平日清潔同打理下，一間好好地既屋就唔會變狗竇，部車都係同樣道理，平日多d 做下service，多d 洗下佢，自己渣出黎都唔會燈又唔著，呔又見晒鋼線咁肉酸啦。

作者: 字典仔 時間: 2009-12-15 22:58

我突然之間覺得好有某人feel, 一個朋友好鍾意架車有事就係internet到print一大堆野/forward一大堆野比我, 咁即係叫我跟住做照收錢丫, 定係睇下果個係唔係果個問題定係另一個問題, 之後又睇下果個辦法好d定呢個辦法好d...佢講左句我覺得有d值得大家參考既野: "點解人地整左得我地整左唔得既, internet明明話個sensor拆出黎洗下佢就得架喎, 係唔係洗既方法唔同? 又唔係丫, 跟足架喎; 唔講係支cleaner唔同? 可能加拿大同美國同一個牌子/型式既cleaner都有唔同? 不如再洗洗佢?"

老實講, 佢果個問題有兩個只不過係佢絲咪之前冇留意, 一路行到佢唔得果刻先整, 冇計....

再講, 一架著唔到既車一次過搵到八個問題既都唔係冇見過, problem over problem 既時候始終都要整, 好多時候只不過因為一樣野有問題唔整(有時候真係唔知)而導致其他野壞, 咁到頭整一個問題唔整另一個跟本唔一定行得通?!

好似今日整架漏電油, injector o-ring漏不過原來係因為個fuel pressure regulator窒左, 換完d injector o-ring之後起初冇事渣出去返黎又聞到, 再check個fuel pressure regulator漏, 一拆就個佢窒左...我只係可以講, 佢唔好彩 (換injector o-ring之前已經講過, 好多時候都係個FPR窒導致谷到邊到弱就邊到漏...

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-15 23:34

38# shutterbug

shutterbug: 咁不如你又解釋一下油尺兩邊既level既成因? 咩野原因導致到有咁既情況出現? 咁即係有冇問題?有既又係邊? 冇既又點解冇問題? 點解換油換密d又會好d? 換密左好多時侯又靜左又順左, 聽你 ...
字典仔發表於 2009-12-15 22:28

I respect you for spending your time to type such a long post. I honestly have no idea why the dipstick can have uneven oil level after the oil has been settle for a couple of minutes. I guess if you check the oil right away after shutting the engine off, there might be a chance the the oil is stuck on the dipstick tubing and when you pull it out it cause uneven level? I really don't know that's why I want to ask you. I haven't been working in the auto industry for a long long time so my knowledge could only come from forums, friends, and google. Also, I'm not a person with lots of free time. People know me knows that I'm a super busy person. Asking a question on a forum is faster than me researching by far.

Btw, if you drain the oil for 20 mins when the engine is still hot and you still get dark oil after refilling and starting up. I guess the reasons could be the engine itself is mistreated pretty badly before, sludge built up, or high mileage with blow-by, etc.

作者: spoonek4 時間: 2009-12-15 23:53

well 咁我相信字典仔唔會係講緊第一次拉支油尺出黎check果陣有uneven囉，我自己通常會check兩三次，視乎支尺易唔易睇啦，如果好似d 07 civic咁用支橙色膠尺就真係要睇多幾次 XDDD，老人家眼唔好....

作者: 字典仔 時間: 2009-12-16 01:28

48# shutterbug

其實我一向入油都會入少半Liter, 之後睇下佢差幾多先至大約入到max, 再著車check leak同埋warm起d油, 熄車之後三十秒左右開始睇level, 慢慢入到差唔多, 唔sure我會睇兩三次睇下個level會唔會定落黎; 之後再top up到max...

不過真係有好多車如果換油換得唔夠密 ~ 唔駛好耐, 三幾萬公里已經可以好明顯?! 好似今日整架08 FiT, 12000km, 超低里數, honda叫佢唔夠15%唔好返去換油, 佢今日就已經問我"架車而家好食油(我有問佢係唔係天氣涷左), 同埋有時候架車有怪味(我有問佢入咩油, 佢話入左89之後怪味已經少過87), 咁我話你不如整完再睇下點?! 佢渣左一日, 已經話平時會有怪味既路已經冇左味, 行多一兩個禮拜就會知overall點; 整完第一樣野留意到既就係d油一邊都幾滿咁去到max,另一邊就參差不齊 (雖然係even level), 咁我再望一望, 嘩, 08年而家先12,000km, 唔講仲以為30,000km! 咁我都係叫佢最好都係換油換密d, 頂多半年或5000km (whichever comes first)? 佢做唔做我就唔知喇, 不過架車似乎渣得咁少就更加無謂整殘佢? 就算係渣得多既, 保養得好唔駛架車殘得咁快都係一件好事黎架jei?

我都記得你以前講過你曾經都係同行(不過我唔記得你做邊科), 但係有時候有d野都係我既個人意見, 見到觀察到既盡量唔係比佢惡化, 做左總比冇做係好既, 不過buy唔buy我就控制唔到, 至少我講左心安理得?! 好多野我都想上網或者問下就有答案, 不過好老實講, 但求心安理得咁囉....如果唔warm up, 入87, 8000km換油, 又或者鍾意先換又好, 乜都好, 好似CP講, 時間就係金錢, 搵到既怕咩之後要整要換車?

識我既人都知換油冇可能係十零廿分鐘既事, 唔係唔得不過一定放唔乾淨?! 我放幾粒鐘既都有, 邊放邊整其他, 可以放得幾清咪幾清囉, and i always drain the oil hot. 如果我咁樣放都唔清, 好老實講, 我話唔乾淨唔係順口開河?!

保養對我黎講好重要, 冇一個好既底架車又點會耐用? 之後d人成日話改乜改物, 連最基本既保養好多時候真係都未做好? 我係呢度講咁多, 只不過係重複每一日會同朋友講既野, 岩聽可以聽唔岩聽既亦真係唔好咁介懷, 我冇錢賺 (又或者咁講, 有都唔一定係我賺?), 唔講錢又可必傷感情呢? lol

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2009-12-16 10:14

Um .. but if the engine take 5L, put 5L oil into it .. if it takes 10L, put 10L into it .. may be +/- a little bit la....

What is "唔夠15%唔好返去換油" ??

I think with 10L oil ..even 放唔清 .. ( may be 30 or 40ml left inside ... ) probably won't really hurt gau?

Well, I am not mechanic ... ( I wish I am .. ^_^ ) I just follow whatever the car tell me, and I don't drive aggressive anymore, (nor super slow nor in high traffic) so, normal service should be fine.

^_^

作者: 字典仔 時間: 2009-12-16 10:39

51# Catpiano

Um .. but if the engine take 5L, put 5L oil into it .. if it takes 10L, put 10L into it .. may be +/- a little bit la....

if life can be so easy, lots of things can be simpler...that's what a lot of mechanic does actually, and leading to either overfill or underfill...

我記得有一次個friend出左架新車, 我唔知用幾多油咁佢就攞個owner's manual出黎睇, it says "it takes 4.7L depends on how much oil has been drained"之類既野, 咁我個朋友第一個反應係"咁即係點呀?"...其實講真, drain十分鐘同一個鐘真係唔止差30 to 40ml, 因為我係用946ml裝既castrol gtx (方便丫嘛), 所以我知我通常都要比manual入多250ml 至500ml...d friend真係睇住我入到咁多架喎....

你打個電話去Honda扮要做service, 不過突然間mention你Oil Life仲有50%囉, 佢真係會叫你唔駛做住, 我個friend drop低架車佢地可以比番佢咩都冇做過???

點保養架車, 除左你改得勁, 渣得狼, 要保養得密之外, 本身原廠recommend你做service既interval好多時候已經係太遲太耐, 所以係視乎你有幾錫車想佢last幾耐, 多問題定少問題之類囉...換個油有幾貴? 有幾煩? 不過聽你既口氣時間就係金錢, 搵到既梗係換車算啦...都係洗錢ja ma...
Well, I am not mechanic ... ( I wish I am .. ^_^ ) I just follow whatever the car tell me, and I don't drive aggressive anymore, (nor super slow nor in high traffic) so, normal service should be fine.

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2009-12-16 11:42

Dictionary ..

Sounds like some of your friends have not so good experience with auto machanic ....

But I am sure lots of people have good experience too ga ... I got good/bad experience too la... ^_^ ( vs resturant here, much better!! )

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-16 12:50

本帖最後由 shutterbug 於 2009-12-16 13:53 編輯

Good read:
http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm#Follow the Money

if you're skeptical the doc, you can go to it's references and read more

if you don't have time just read Dark Oil Myth and 3000k interval

作者: 字典仔 時間: 2009-12-16 17:32

CP: unfortunately i always do mostly referral and i have numerous of stories...只不過有時侯我覺得如果真係覺得人地整得好, 冇doubt, 咁你跟本唔會攞second opinion; 整得唔好, 又或者有doubt, 咁自然會想睇下係唔係比人呃???

sb: thx for the link, see if i can get some time tonite from work to read thru those...then maybe we can open up another topic to discuss...

作者: 字典仔 時間: 2009-12-16 22:13

岩岩睇完條link, 都唔知可以講咩, 只不過去得啖笑加一堆問號?

首先,我都認同, d油愈出愈靚, 照道理真係可以保養得架車好d, 不過佢講話d污衊野係由燃燒過程電油同空氣產生出黎既, 合成機油都算係而家比較好既機油, 雖然我都唔認同等於可以遲d換(只不過係同等period保護得好d), 咁點解佢又話3000miles換一次其實都唔係好須要? 換油當然要換油隔不過佢又話而家d油靚左照道理唔係應該冇污衊得咁快? 咁佢又叫人唔好3000Miles換但係又唔好用得咁盡用到有sludge? 之不過唔攞去lab驗又唔知, 但係好似有d車八萬開油蓋或valve cover真係好似一pat屎咁, 咁果d係唔係sludge呢? 但係人地跟足原廠話八千就八千, 次次唔係一百幾十(至於都$80?), 就係三五七百, 點解呢? 唔通入錯油?

咁好似洗車, 洗碗, 洗衫一樣, 換油就係一個最好既洗engine方法...咁如果你洗車/洗碗/洗衫見到d水污衊, 你都會換個d水啦, 咁點解見到d油污衊其實唔驗換, 仲要攞去化驗? 仲有佢話成日行hwy就唔駛換咁密? 你試下直渣三個鐘個engine熱唔熱丫喇? 但係佢又話heat breaks down oil more quickly?

我都唔想話人地講既野係錯, 我只係可以講話唔明, 我都想有位高人可以解釋下 ;)

不過其實點講都好, 但求心安理得, 唔換都得, 死左既時候唔好怪人地; 換得密都仲會死既就認命啦, 好似讀書考試咁, 盡左力唔係死而無憾? LOL

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-16 23:52

Dictionary, I don't know if you've misread something, but I'll try to see if I can answer you...

首先,我都認同, d油愈出愈靚, 照道理真係可以保養得架車好d, 不過佢講話d污衊野係由燃燒過程電油同空氣產生出黎既, 合成機油都算係而家比較好既機油, 雖然我都唔認同等於可以遲d換(只不過係同等period保護得好d), 咁點解佢又話3000miles換一次其實都唔係好須要?
Oil is getting better, so 3000 miles interval is not needed anymore, make sense wor

換油當然要換油隔不過佢又話而家d油靚左照道理唔係應該冇污衊得咁快? 咁佢又叫人唔好3000Miles換但係又唔好用得咁盡用到有sludge?
It says "The key thing is to change the oil before the oil becomes too saturated with contaminants to hold any more, but color is not an indication of this condition."  It also says "by following the manufacturer's recommended oil change interval, you are changing your oil long before the oil has become saturated."  Then the author goes into describing what's severe schedule vs normal schedule (every manufacture will have these 2 schedules).  If you belong to severe, then of course change oil more often.  So far so good, all makes sense.

咁點解見到d油污衊其實唔驗換, 仲要攞去化驗?
Article says "The way modern detergent motor oil works is that minute particles of soot are suspended in the oil. These minute particles pose no danger to your engine, but they cause the oil to darken."  "The only real way to determine whether oil is truly in need of changing is to have an oil analysis performed."  Oil analysis is optional, that's for people who really want to know.

仲有佢話成日行hwy就唔駛換咁密? 你試下直渣三個鐘個engine熱唔熱丫喇? 但係佢又話heat breaks down oil more quickly?
If you're cruising on hwy, your rpm and engine load is not that high, unless you go Coquilhala or something.  Also at hwy speed, cooling system is much more efficient.  Therefore, engine won't get as hot as driving in rush hour traffic.

If you just want to be 心安理得, then do whatever you like.  The point I want to make is that one may not need to do it so often, of course depending on servere service or not.  Don't waste your money for something you don't need and harm the environment with all that used oil and filters.

Btw Dictionary, are you a licensed tech?  Just curious...

作者: 字典仔 時間: 2009-12-17 00:54

Dictionary, I don't know if you've misread something, but I'll try to see if I can answer you...

希望你唔會覺得我煩啦...

首先,我都認同, d油愈出愈靚, 照道理真係可以保養得架車好d, 不過佢講話d污衊野係由燃燒過程電油同空氣產生出黎既, 合成機油都算係而家比較好既機油, 雖然我都唔認同等於可以遲d換(只不過係同等period保護得好d), 咁點解佢又話3000miles換一次其實都唔係好須要?
Oil is getting better, so 3000 miles interval is not needed anymore, make sense wor

唔明, 咁佢都講左d污濁野係點黎, 亦都講埋synthetic都唔代表可以用長d時間, 咁正常油污濁就應該換, 如果好似佢咁講污衊係正常既咁又係邊樹黎d sludge?

換油當然要換油隔不過佢又話而家d油靚左照道理唔係應該冇污衊得咁快? 咁佢又叫人唔好3000Miles換但係又唔好用得咁盡用到有sludge?
It says "The key thing is to change the oil before the oil becomes too saturated with contaminants to hold any more, but color is not an indication of this condition." It also says "by following the manufacturer's recommended oil change interval, you are changing your oil long before the oil has become saturated." Then the author goes into describing what's severe schedule vs normal schedule (every manufacture will have these 2 schedules). If you belong to severe, then of course change oil more often. So far so good, all makes sense.

咁如果d油應該用到咁盡, 等佢都潤滑唔到個engine, 又clean up唔到d污衊野, 咁但係又唔可以比佢sludge, 好難架喎....

咁點解見到d油污衊其實唔驗換, 仲要攞去化驗?
Article says "The way modern detergent motor oil works is that minute particles of soot are suspended in the oil. These minute particles pose no danger to your engine, but they cause the oil to darken." "The only real way to determine whether oil is truly in need of changing is to have an oil analysis performed." Oil analysis is optional, that's for people who really want to know.

我都明d油就好似清潔劑咁, 所以會污衊; 不過根據我自己既實驗, 99年車 (98年9月買), 146k, d油4000換一次 (never add up, just every 4k), 就算係對上一個oil change (144k), 佢既condition都比好多兩/三萬公里既新車好...咁即係好定唔好呢? compare番同期既車真係冇問題同埋爽好多, 自己個心就一直都覺得好d, 眼見自己有個朋友有架同款車, 202k, 又落過場, 又去過美國中部做野, 同樣都係4000km換一次, 亦都係渣落好静好爽, 真係有d新車都冇得比喎....

仲有佢話成日行hwy就唔駛換咁密? 你試下直渣三個鐘個engine熱唔熱丫喇? 但係佢又話heat breaks down oil more quickly?
If you're cruising on hwy, your rpm and engine load is not that high, unless you go Coquilhala or something. Also at hwy speed, cooling system is much more efficient. Therefore, engine won't get as hot as driving in rush hour traffic.

係, 塞車咁冇冷空氣打入去咁個cooling system就梗係會用得勁d (夏天開埋冷氣可以overheat tim), 不過唔代表你cruise hwy就唔熱, 架車愈行愈"Lup", 停一停, 歇一歇再行, 又爽番...

If you just want to be 心安理得, then do whatever you like. The point I want to make is that one may not need to do it so often, of course depending on servere service or not. Don't waste your money for something you don't need and harm the environment with all that used oil and filters.

咁但係你又冇講點叫密, 點叫唔密? 有d人覺得六千換油太密, 有d人又覺得六千太耐, 你既建議係?

Btw Dictionary, are you a licensed tech? Just curious...

我? 都係上下forum, search下google惡補下, 得閒上黎吹下水叫做幫得就幫, 幫唔到既又唔關我事咁囉

個牌? 考完都未見過, 可能過左期lu (不過又好似冇expiry date, 剩係記得有個issue date...)

咁題外話又問下, 洗車水, 洗衣液之類既野就道理污濁左其實都應該繼續洗, 至少環保丫嘛...換油呢家野其實有咪得囉, 其實以為應該剩係sell "top up fluids"...又快, 又方便, 記得以前有個朋友十七萬都係換十五次油, 架車都仲行得呀, 不過要換engine之嘛, 另一個最近期既又係, 死左一個cylinder唔緊要, 仲有三個...

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-17 01:42

本帖最後由 shutterbug 於 2009-12-17 02:46 編輯

唔明, 咁佢都講左d污濁野係點黎, 亦都講埋synthetic都唔代表可以用長d時間, 咁正常油污濁就應該換, 如果好似佢咁講污衊係正常既咁又係邊樹黎d sludge?
When the oil becomes *saturated with contaminant* particles new particles settle out of the oil onto the internal engine parts and form sludge.  The point is that when you follow manufacturer's service schedule (severe or normal), the *saturated with contaminant* point will not happen before you do a service.  People could be driving in severe condition but using normal service schedule, which is a common problem.

不過根據我自己既實驗, 99年車 (98年9月買), 146k, d油4000換一次 (never add up, just every 4k), 就算係對上一個oil change (144k), 佢既condition都比好多兩/三萬公里既新車好...咁即係好定唔好呢? compare番同期既車真係冇問題同埋爽好多, 自己個心就一直都覺得好d, 眼見自己有個朋友有架同款車, 202k, 又落過場, 又去過美國中部做野, 同樣都係4000km換一次, 亦都係渣落好静好爽, 真係有d新車都冇得比喎....
I can only say different year, different driver, etc hard to compare.  However, I don't agree with a car that has 144k is in better condition than a car with 30k, unless the driver of the 30k car trashes his car with no maint or whatever.  Following manufacturer's schedule is enough to keep the car in good shape.

係, 塞車咁冇冷空氣打入去咁個cooling system就梗係會用得勁d (夏天開埋冷氣可以overheat tim), 不過唔代表你cruise hwy就唔熱, 架車愈行愈"Lup", 停一停, 歇一歇再行, 又爽番...
Of course engine will get hot, but how hot is the question.  Your engine is way hotter when you're stuck in traffic than cruising on hwy. That's why if you drive in heavy traffic, you should follow the severe service schedule lor.

咁但係你又冇講點叫密, 點叫唔密? 有d人覺得六千換油太密, 有d人又覺得六千太耐, 你既建議係?
I recommend following the manufacturer's schedule.  Make sure you know if you're severe service or normal service.  That's the key.  If you're a taxi driver and you follow the normal schedule no doubt you will trash your engine.  If you ask me how long, I will say what is your driving condition first.

作者: 字典仔 時間: 2009-12-17 12:58

When the oil becomes *saturated with contaminant* particles new particles settle out of the oil onto the internal engine parts and form sludge. The point is that when you follow manufacturer's service schedule (severe or normal), the *saturated with contaminant* point will not happen before you do a service. People could be driving in severe condition but using normal service schedule, which is a common problem.

咁你覺得有幾多人其實會屬於severe condition有夕幾人又屬於normal呢? 有好多人半年連五千都行唔到, 咁算點呢? 仲有, 原廠都有sell engine flush, 三萬零左右, 咁如果換油換得夠密又點解咁早要flush? 近黎佢地又話flush唔好, 咁之前比佢地flush左果d點算?

[/quote]
不過根據我自己既實驗, 99年車 (98年9月買), 146k, d油4000換一次 (never add up, just every 4k), 就算係對上一個oil change (144k), 佢既condition都比好多兩/三萬公里既新車好...咁即係好定唔好呢? compare番同期既車真係冇問題同埋爽好多, 自己個心就一直都覺得好d, 眼見自己有個朋友有架同款車, 202k, 又落過場, 又去過美國中部做野, 同樣都係4000km換一次, 亦都係渣落好静好爽, 真係有d新車都冇得比喎....
I can only say different year, different driver, etc hard to compare. However, I don't agree with a car that has 144k is in better condition than a car with 30k, unless the driver of the 30k car trashes his car with no maint or whatever. Following manufacturer's schedule is enough to keep the car in good shape.[/quote]

seriously, 無論架車放出黎既油, 就連拆出黎既油隔(漏乾之後)重量都唔同, 咁當然三萬零公里既車某一個程度上黎講你新"少少"囉, 不過真係睇到都覺得可憐架; 咁當然, 如果冇要求既, 求其換左油, 入滿gas架車咪行得囉...不過幾年後架車已經比起同期既差...

曾經, 有一個朋友渣架02 Civic Si, 棍波, 一路都返廠做保養 (ave 7800km, very on time according to honda, warm up about 2 mins before drive, 94 when new then 87 when it gets older and older), 到差唔多八萬公里佢話保養期過左話唔想攞番廠, 睇完之後同佢整左一大堆基本保養都冇做好既野, 但係佢d單就話做左乜做左物, 整完佢覺得好好, 我覺得都仲係差d, 唔夠爽; 剛巧有個朋友渣同年civic, 八萬五 (多幾千公里, 我會話大同小異啦), 都係棍仔, 五千一次Motul Synthetic, 有用autostart warm車, 入89/92, 期間有一兩次咁岩我返左香港佢攞去原廠換油, 佢話換完冇咁爽喎 (不過烈市honda都係有賣motul, 入左d咩我就唔知啦), 佢地交換車渣左一個圈, 之後一個黑面一個好開心; 開心果個梗係覺得保養得好值得, 而家仲渣緊! 唔開心果個三個月後換左車lu, 因為compression reading都有d分別啦, 一架d嘩佬明顯響d要較咁囉 (其實我都真係好唔好意思, 攪到佢心裡面有條刺, 不過都好既, 佢真係好鍚車, 只不過係之前唔識)

係, 塞車咁冇冷空氣打入去咁個cooling system就梗係會用得勁d (夏天開埋冷氣可以overheat tim), 不過唔代表你cruise hwy就唔熱, 架車愈行愈"Lup", 停一停, 歇一歇再行, 又爽番...
Of course engine will get hot, but how hot is the question. Your engine is way hotter when you're stuck in traffic than cruising on hwy. That's why if you drive in heavy traffic, you should follow the severe service schedule lor.

應該咁講, 唔同既熱啦, 塞車塞得耐, engine熱架車會lup, 一行番順又會好d; 行長程既其實個engine都好熱, 所以其實一樣咁重要...

不過我覺得如果一架車成日行短程(每日都係行十零廿公里之內), 同一架車成日行"中程"(每日行四十零五十公里), 咁中程既會好d; 但係有朋友日日行80至120km左右既都有, 我唔見得果d好囉; 好多時候驗二手車其實已經可以睇到好多野, 不過當然, 買得起新車而又換得起身既, 保養好似算唔算唔重要?

咁但係你又冇講點叫密, 點叫唔密? 有d人覺得六千換油太密, 有d人又覺得六千太耐, 你既建議係?
I recommend following the manufacturer's schedule. Make sure you know if you're severe service or normal service. That's the key. If you're a taxi driver and you follow the normal schedule no doubt you will trash your engine. If you ask me how long, I will say what is your driving condition first.

umm...咁我諗你既車都係跟廠建議去做? 行左幾多呀? 不如我搵架同年同款既攞黎做個compression check, 比較下post上黎再討論下丫; 你帶埋油同油隔黎大家fresh oil比較下亦得...當係送比其他老友記既禮物? (唔緊要, 你可以自己落手落腳做, 或者做完先即刻黎都得)

我都係想比較下ja...好似琴日一個朋友架車咁, 二手番黎試過engine flush, 換多幾次油之後又回復原狀, 咁我上次就叫佢換完油行左1500km左右番黎試下放出黎咩樣(佢行左1415km), 睇落似四千零公里囉; 入左落去既新油明顯比上次入落去既好左, 今次二千再番過黎...

換完之後同佢出去食飯走hwy落烈治文, 架車順左好多...咁又點解呢? 冇理油呢d天氣行左千零公里就有分別架喎? 咁唔理佢照舊五千換, 佢又好似一次差過一次, 咁點算呢???

人生真係太多問號喇, 好彩有shutterbug...下次我可以copy and paste話番比人知 (不過我亦都知當中其實佢地已經係度CD Rom緊, oooops)....

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-17 15:16

本帖最後由 shutterbug 於 2009-12-17 16:19 編輯

咁你覺得有幾多人其實會屬於severe condition有夕幾人又屬於normal呢? 有好多人半年連五千都行唔到, 咁算點呢? 仲有, 原廠都有sell engine flush, 三萬零左右, 咁如果換油換得夠密又點解咁早要flush? 近黎佢地又話flush唔好, 咁之前比佢地flush左果d點算?
The best thing is to read your owner's manual.  Engine flush?  I don't think it's a requirement from the manufacturer.  For example, engine flush never appeared in Honda's service schedule.  Yes flushing a dirty engine could be bad cuz the loose dirt could block oil passages.  If you already flushed then what can you do?  If you flushed an dirty engine, try to minimize the chance of blockage by changing the oil more frequently lor and cross your fingers.  To me engine flush is not needed (I never had to do that on my cars) if you follow manufacturer's schedule, but how many people really know how and able to follow???  Some engines, they are screwups from the manufacturers, e.g. old Camry v6, they had sludge problem even if you follow the schedule but that's a special case.  I think at the end they had TSB or recalls??? and change the service schedule on those???  I don't know.  Yes Toyota can screw up, so can anyone, but again it's rare.

不過我覺得如果一架車成日行短程(每日都係行十零廿公里之內), 同一架車成日行"中程"(每日行四十零五十公里), 咁中程既會好d; 但係有朋友日日行80至120km左右既都有, 我唔見得果d好囉; 好多時候驗二手車其實已經可以睇到好多野, 不過當然, 買得起新車而又換得起身既, 保養好似算唔算唔重要?
The key is light load or heavy load.  Short trip is short trip, it's the worse no matter what.  But say for a 30km one way trip, it makes a big difference if you're driving in rush hour city or cruising on hwy.

I guess you don't need to tell me your "friends" did this and that and become happier and the other was sad and sold his car, etc...because I don't know the details of each case and there are too many variables involved to make a good judgement from just reading your words.  Who knows if your "friends" didn't do oil change for 20k then go to your place for engine flush.  Nobody knows how they keep their cars before right?  Unless they bought them brand new and always go to your garage for service?

There's no need to bring my car in for compare (but I like your offer) because my car's odometer reads 11k at the moment...

Copying our posts?  I don't think it's needed or worth anything.

人生真係太多問號喇, 好彩有字典仔...

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-17 15:23

Btw, do you work on taxi's and police cars, etc?

All they do is follow the severe service schedule and that's it, no more and no less. Nobody is willing to pay for extra service there because it's a "business" vehicle. At the end of the day, you always see engines with 300+km and when you take off the valve cover, they look like day 1, hone marks still on cams, etc...

作者: 字典仔 時間: 2009-12-17 18:10

sb: 唔好意思, engine flush的確唔係正常既service schedule / requirement裡面, 我講緊既係現實生活朋友既經歷(honda / toyota / mazda / subaru/ volkswagen / audi 之裡既都好似有聽過, 或者係佢地d單/ service record裡面見到曾經做過, 絕對唔係一d owner's manual有寫同冇寫既問題, 而係有d dealership的確留意到耐唔換油既問題, 好似我見過有人人地叫佢8000換佢就成萬先換, 都係差2000jei, 差下差下, 四萬公里已經差左成個oil change囉...

我自己都唔贊成engine flush, 最大既問題其實唔係loose dirt會塞d咩passage, 係我真係試過換完油之後個engine死左, 原來佢之前平均萬二換一次, 果陣都未夠廿萬副engine四個cylinder得兩個勉強到MINIMUM, 其他兩個係MINIMUM既一半, 原因反而係因為佢之前太差, 副engine係靠d污衊野黎hold up D compression, 換完之後爽晒跟住就突然暴斃, 死況極之可憐...

另一個朋友又係成日都懶換油, 02年車剛過十萬早前97000km同佢換火咀既時候話佢架車渣上黎真係唔係咁順不如睇睇compression, 點知做到第三個cylinder仲差d以為個錶壞左, 得其他既一半, 咁迷底咪打開左囉...佢都有成日睇住d oil level, 佢都話近年污衊得快左燒得快左, 8000km可能要入1Ｌ至1.5L?

我好肯定一樣野，佢唔warm車，永遠入87, 同埋得閒先換油，冇時間就check check oil level果ｄ黎既...但係就十萬都冇...

其實每一個人都有佢既keep車方法同原則，只不過係有時候一ｄ不經心既答案就會令到一ｄ一知半解既人出問題(果個我都知絕對唔係你, 個朋友就係入網見人地話可以咁可以咁, 唔駛點又唔駛點)..只不過既然你有你既意見我亦都有我既，睇下邊個幫到大家囉；再講，可能我同你講完佢出到去人地做既野又唔同...根本唔會知...我都係但求心安理得...

就係正當你冇可能知每一個人既用法有冇問題, 又或者本身架車出廠有冇問題, 係紙上談兵既情況下, 我就更加唔想人地會一知半解而出問題, 重申, 有問題會係果d唔識車亦都唔會去check tire pressure呀, check oil level呀, 之類既大眾...

我冇整過警車, 不過我朋友隔黎間車房有, 亦都有朋友既車房專整的士, 我自己亦都有整教車師傅車 (口口0唔係好多, 五年平均四十至六十萬, 視乎佢幾勤力), 送報紙送餐一個月唔少過四千既好多...剩係返工放工去女朋友屋企同出下街, 99年到而家第3架車, 之前每架廿萬左右(都係因為被撞而total loss, 四年左右咁既里數trade in可能冇人要, 不過icbc都比佢top book因為condition好...最新呢架07年120k左右(女友會流行少左)...佢地全當中有d係"i have to keep this car on the road, so whatever has to be done, it gotta be done" ~ 好似警車同緊急車輛咁 (你估投張contract返黎平呀? 投都係因為果d車咩都要整既就整, 又行得多)....的士冇得講, d阿叉cheap, 不過有d自己車既都keep得唔錯架(我都有朋友之前渣的士, 自己車)...

300k我又想睇下有幾多架真係可以拆左valve cover, they look like day 1; 唔駛day 1, 我就搵我架得一半都冇里數既黎compare啦...

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2009-12-17 20:06

Aiya .. peaceful la...

Dictionary want to change oil every 1500-3000km, and if he can afford to do it, (money and time) he can get peace of mind ..  that is ok wor ..

Just like some people like to see doctor once a month for body check or whatever ...  that is fine wor ..

I like to "all ci" 2 times a day .. vs my wife  once for every 2 day ..... am I going to live longer? or she will?

May be doing oil change every 1500-3000km, vs 25,000 km recomended by manufactory .. the car can last 300,000 km, vs 250,000 km?

Or if someone likes to do oil change every 2K, and has kept his car in perfect shape, but then someone hit to his car .. and total lost ...  he only got the same amount of money from insurance company for car which only does oil change every 20k....  etc etc ...

Yeah .. some people eat healthy food all the time ..  but dying young ..  some people smoke till 100 yr old .. and still alive .. (dirty lung for sure .. )

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-17 20:56

That's the problem, people who doesn't follow the maint schedule is the root of the problems.  A manufacturer calls for 8k or 6 months oil change interval and a guy do it at 9k or wait a year until he accumulate enough km, not a lot over but all adds up.  At the end this guy's engine is full of sludge and he complains that the car sucks, oil sucks, or the schedule is wrong.

Doing an engine flush on an old engine is a big mistake (same goes for tranny flush, drain and fill is different though) in the first place and should not be advised.  If 200k and 2 cylinders are almost dead, I'd just tell the owner to change the oil more often and don't do engine flush because those 2 cylinders will likely not gonna hold compression after.

Also, driving style plays a big part in engine life.  For example, race car get to rebuilt engien and all new brakes every race, though they run for a short distance BUT with high temp and high revs.  If one rev like crazy every gear vs another who shifts at around 3 grand. Given the same oil change interval, the former will have a more worn engine, BUT will you ask your every customer how you drive when they bring in their cars?  No right?

Well that's why I said "looks" like day 1, meaning no sludge, no discolouring.  Of course the engine isworn la but you really can still see the hone marks on the cams.

作者: spoonek4 時間: 2009-12-17 23:01

睇左果個site 講d 人貪得意去換油果段，都幾好笑。換得密真係唔使功夫，唔使時間同錢咁﹖要架，就算我自己做慳左人工都要俾料錢，但係至少我知我唔係咁無聊放假搵野黎做 lol

網上面既資料可以睇下，但唔可以盡信，我都唔會叫人信晒我，你覺得錫車係岩既，係好事。覺得manufacturer 整出黎個service schedule(睇mileage或者時間事但一樣)係太密既，我亦冇意見，因為部車唔係我設計同製造，我只係可以講人地做得部車出黎係4個月/8000km換一次油既，d 人行夠兩萬都覺得冇咁既需要，事後冧野攪到要一獲過整，都係要俾錢，不過通常一獲過整既都幾甘下姐。唔係冇見過，岩岩早個月先有個客係咁，話副偈有怪聲喎，係囉拉支油尺出黎不知幾乾淨，冇晒油，check左個中缸入面嘈得好緊要，攪到要一係rebuild一係換偈，終於部車都係拖走左。

特別要留意係由於宜家好多新車，車廠為左追求低耗油量同各樣低廢氣排放要求會recommend用5w20或者0w20偈油，引擎容積同馬力又愈出愈大，但係就冇一個正係efficient既engine oil cooler。水箱水都仲有風扇同水箱去冷卻，engine oil 同transmission oil cooler 好睇車種而定，多數1500-2500cc既家庭車都好少有oil cooler，齋靠coolant去幫手降低油溫可以有幾efficient﹖油溫比水溫既溫度高30-40c真係唔出奇.......

原廠近年recommend 既呢d 偈油劣化既速度分分鐘比你想像中快好多，所以我實在覺得廠本身recommend既里數都已經一d 唔密，仲真係幾遲。

所以好似sb 你post果個link，係，某d 情況下某d 車某d 人係work，但緊記真係唔可以一部通書睇到老，我唔覺得果個作者果一套work o係日本車。保養呢d 野，換油換呔換迫力換timing belt都好，唔應該推太遲，相信你都有聽過"凡事太盡，緣份勢必早盡"﹖

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-18 13:49

睇左果個site 講d 人貪得意去換油果段，都幾好笑。
Lots of people buy stuff that they don't need so it's really not something special.  Many people religiously change their oil every 3-4k.  They don't care if they need it or not; they just want peace of mind.

水箱水都仲有風扇同水箱去冷卻，engine oil 同transmission oil cooler 好睇車種而定，多數1500-2500cc既家庭車都好少有oil cooler，齋靠coolant去幫手降低油溫可以有幾efficient﹖油溫比水溫既溫度高30-40c真係唔出奇.......
Most of the time it's efficient enough.  Many small car don't have oil coolers because they don't need it, just the cooling system will do the job.

原廠近年recommend 既呢d 偈油劣化既速度分分鐘比你想像中快好多，所以我實在覺得廠本身recommend既里數都已經一d 唔密，仲真係幾遲
You don't know how fast/slow they deterioate until you do an oil analysis.  5w20 is just the viscosity, doesn't mean it breaks down faster or slower than 5w30.  OTOH synthetic vs dino oil is a different story.

但緊記真係唔可以一部通書睇到老，我唔覺得果個作者果一套work o係日本車。
I never ask people to 一部通書睇到老, I just said follow the manufacturer's schedule.  果一套?  which one I don't get it?  what doesn't work on Japanese car ar?  What's so special about Japanese cars?

There are many references that said the same thing about engine oils, not just the link that I posted.  If you don't trust it, google can find more for you:

http://www.google.com/search?hl= ... p;start=10&sa=N

Read them all if you like, but after a few of them you'll soon find out they all said the same thing, even oil companies.  Internet is no different than our society where truth and lies are everywhere.  That's why I'm always skeptical about what others say and I ask questions all the time.

作者: spoonek4 時間: 2009-12-18 16:33

查實我想問下做一次oil analysis 要幾多錢呢sb兄﹖

作者: Quest 時間: 2009-12-18 19:10

So long as your EFI engine is in tip-top condition, with good spark plugs, strong sparks, proper timing and a functional air filter, modern EFI gasoline engines, motor oil can easily handle 5000miles OCI, or 7000kms for regular motor oil, longer if high quality syn or syn blend is being used.

Unlike carb'ed engines with mechanical sparking systems (points, or later, solid-state ignitors), EFI doesn't suffer from too much of fuel dilution. Granted, your system is on OBD-II already, computer will also monitor and adjust the idle timing for you which further helps in minimising fuel waste, and cylinder wall "washdown" due to cylinder flooding during cold start is next to nil.

3000miles OCI is only good for carb'ed cars and not suitable for modern stock EFI engines (unless you have yours stroked). Also: with ILSAC GF-4 (5 is coming sometime this year)/API SL or SM categorisation, most motor oils are no longer gp1 only (commonly referred to as "brightstock") but mostly gpII+, meaning it's highly refined GroupII base stock, sometimes with a blend of GpIII or beyond to achieve certain desirable properties). This is especially true with national brand name 5W30/5W20 where they have to be blended in order to achieve base lubricant thermal stability (resistance in boiling off).

Q.

p.s. for UOA, check out blackstone labs.

作者: B2L2 時間: 2009-12-18 21:27

查實我想問下做一次oil analysis 要幾多錢呢sb兄﹖
spoonek4 發表於 2009-12-18 17:33

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com says $10 - $30USD. Is there any lab doing that in Vancouver? Don't mind to play around with the number.

I think http://www.bobistheoilguy.com have way better information related to oil. Whatever oil/interval people do to their car, it is your choice. The manufacture suggested interval "may" works for average usage and I consider that should be a bottom line. Somehow, I never think I'm a normal user. And if one care about his care more, a better oil/short interval always help, right?

My own theory is using cheap oil and short interval will be better than expensive (sync) and longer interval. However, everytime I was shopping for oil, I always picked the sync and the better filter, asking myself why saving for that little money. Maybe I have the recreational oil change symdon.

- Brian

作者: Lik 時間: 2009-12-18 22:46

Blackstone Lab mails you the oil analysis kit free of charge, but they charge US$22.50 per analysis, and I don't know if it is legal to mail used engine oil from Canada to the US.

I remember seeing on VCMC that there is an oil analysis lab somewhere in Surrey, but I am too lazy to go dig that up la. No idea how much they charge though.

-Lik

作者: Quest 時間: 2009-12-19 11:26

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com says $10 - $30USD. Is there any lab doing that in Vancouver? Don't mind to play around with the number.

I think http://www.bobistheoilguy.com have way better inf ...
B2L2 發表於 2009-12-18 22:27

Shorter OCI isn't gonna help much for DO REMEMBER that there are additives in the oil that would require heat and pressure to bond to the moving parts (and that's why the oil industries long shy away from using the "infamous" 4-ball wear test for it does not represent the actual condition that the moving engine parts experience during operations).

Also: if you have the $$$ to do numerous UOA tests, check it out after oil change , 300kms after oil change, 1200kms after oil change, etc. and you'll see that the wear numbers (esp. iron) will start to stabilise after, say, 1200kms and will remain on that "plateau" until the tbn runs out, and/or additives depleted.

As far as colour's concerned: this is bunk (purely psychological) for oil is meant to suspend the dirt/debris and have different colour even when fresh off the bottle. To me it just means that the oil is doing it's job.

Additional reference: diesel engines are known to create a lot of soot so engine oil is responsible for carrying it away and circulate it through the filter. Oil in diesel engines get dirty in 300kms and will stay tar-black for many more thousands of kms to come.

If you want to know how your engine /engine oil is doing, do a couple of UOA with a specific brand name of oil you have been staying true to. That way, you can tell if you can still extend the oil mileage for a bit (in my case: wife's 04 camry can take the oil easily to 7000kms in both Castrol GTX, valvoline conventional or MortarMeister full syn 5W30.

Q.

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-19 14:19

Quest, you're the man!

I think you're the most "pro" on this auto board! Everything makes sense...thanks.

作者: spoonek4 時間: 2009-12-19 16:58

本帖最後由 spoonek4 於 2009-12-19 18:25 編輯

如果係10-30usd一個ANALYSIS，真係就黎夠錢買桶新油喇喎

QUEST兄，難得你呢排o係樹，咁你點睇果D 成年都係行得唔夠一萬公里既車﹖係唔係唔需要換油呢﹖96年車行得5萬幾既或者90年車行得兩萬零既我都見過，咁呢D 車又需唔需要做service呢(service & lube brake caliper部件/換水箱水，波箱油，迫力油等等)﹖

service 真係唔止換油，有時仲包埋tire rotation同check tire wear, tire pressure，check燈，check晒所有發電機皮帶，風油軚泵/冷氣皮帶，check風隔，水箱水強度同各樣fluid level等等，一d 好多人唔知，唔會或者唔識做既野，換油果陣都會check埋...

好似我女友部civic，應該呢一兩日吉左口釘o係右頭軚開始slow leak，好在琴日同字典仔一齊service佢部車果陣發覺到，如果唔係佢又要等我或者拖車喇...

佢部車里數唔高架喎，就黎兩年先得兩萬六km多d

作者: 字典仔 時間: 2009-12-19 18:49

65# shutterbug

經過你咁樣解釋, 同你之前既講法其實已經好大分別, 我亦都覺得有好多人都係因為懶成日都覺得未夠mileage jei唔駛換住, 98年車而家先六萬幾既至少有幾架, 92年車而家三萬幾既布有一架, 有架仲好似唔知90/91年而家先八千....冇錯, 係八千...

個車主仲覺得佢自己架車好好condition, 咁低里數一定可以仲賣到好價同有人買, 結果係個個都驚佢其實擺都擺到壞, 跟本呢個亦都係事實...八千公里連fuel pump都換過...

冇錯, 我真係唔會每一架車都問, 不過見到有奇怪既一定問, 保養得好d之後命都希望可以長d; 當然, 冇人會知呢個會唔會係事實, 但求都係心安理得, 如果唔覺得係一個問題既咩都唔做都得, 少少驚就做多少少, care既咪做多d, 好似今日幫一個tune車既人整少少野, 佢就係度勁"小"好多人剩係識渣, 識改, 連最少既保養都未做好; 當然, 觀點角度唔同, 做既野梗係唔同啦...

再舉個例, 03年G35四萬八千公里(計過, 一日平均20-22km), 好低里數丫, 廠叫佢8000換油, 佢就真係八千, 六年幾七年車, 一個禮拜都會由渣一次素里返UBC, 其他男友接送, 平均唔夠一年零一個月換一次油, 四萬三果時有一個cylinder已經少左compression (190-160-195-190-195-195)...係, 160夠有找, 仲係高過minimum, 不過一架咁新既車就真係好可惜...

我會攞一d玩實生活既case出黎比較, 可能就係因為我成日都會做compression test同leakdown test (for 買賣二手車, 朋友tune車前tuner要知架車既健康狀況, 真係會由萬零公里到十幾, 廿幾萬既車都要試, 試得多就自然知道點解一d人架車可能比人地高里數不過仲係健康d, 有d點解好新淨就已經比人差...

至少, 我講完既都係事實, 唔係剩係吹, 幫唔幫到大家我唔知, 大家鍾意點做亦都唔到我理 (好似一個uncle每次都係笑笑口話唔得閒所以遲黎換油, 咁我又可以點? 祝佢好運囉, 我做就做左我自己既本份喇)...

CP: 其實一直都好peaceful, 只不過係我覺得有d野有d地方如果可以講得清楚d誤會亦都會少d, 因為真係好多人其實睇完都只不過係一知半解...

Quest講既野就detail好多, 不過可能technical到大家未必一定睇得明...其實好多時侯佢地測試d油都係係個lab度, 有一d測試同現實生活係有一定既偏差, 所以我都好相信佢地會R&D之後都會再黎一d現實生活既測試, 就好似點解車廠要出recall一樣??? 如果覺得七千冇問題咪七千囉, 如果覺得一萬冇問題就一萬囉...好似我自己架車咁, 換完油都未行夠一千, 不過停左保險一陣, 見到又半年喇, 咪換一換油囉, 換完順左又慳油左, 安心咪得囉...

作者: Quest 時間: 2009-12-19 21:03

Points well taken, spoonek4 and 字典仔.

Trouble is, most general public don't seem to care/know how to maintain an automobile properly, for over 90% of them neglect their cars altogether (no oil change/skipping oil change, tune up, brake, etc. even maintenance and inspection, etc.) and the rest of them tends to "overdo" it. While I would not focus on the remaining 10%, let's talk about the rest 90%, shall we?

Automobile esp. water-cooled type, requires frequent , if not long hot continuous driving in order to extend the longevity of the engine and various lubricated mechanical parts. Frequent stop-n-go driving, as well as short trips, will kill and engine (if not the other emissions components) very quickly.

Example: a friend of mine bought a used Toy paseo sometime ago, with 180,000kms on the clock but engine and emissions were in top shape (deviation around 3psi all across 4 cyls). Because he lives 0.6kms from where he works, he resort to doing frequent short trips on a daily basis and basically killed the cat and the engine in 3 yrs time afterwards. (BTW: this friend of mine works as a teacher in Killarney).

For some, it's a necessity to drive short distances due to health reasons but for others: it's better to cover longer distances or combined several short trips into 1 major one. Not only will you save on gas due to minimisation of cold starts, but also makes your engine runs longer also.

I'm glad to be among some good technical friends here to share my knowledge (incl. spoonek4 and 字典仔 and derek) so long as you don't mind me old man ranting...

Q. :drive:

作者: spoonek4 時間: 2009-12-20 00:00

唔該晒quest兄...

係囉同之前你地其中一位講過，買二手車千其唔好搵太低里數果D，揀D一年行兩萬左右既，其他再由相熟車房CHECK會好D。

因為真係太恐怖喇，見過有人拎車黎，買左部2手車，00年行左5萬零，overheat拖黎，check左係水膽(thermostat)有事，但係都唔止，仲有其他皮帶裂晒，valve cover gasket漏油，頭避震打柴，其他當然水泵timing belt 都未有跡象有換過(水泵有漏水痕跡)，當然又係上手車主拍晒心口話直板任驗全"完裝"，終於整獲甘既....

渣短途成日著冇一陣又熄車果d舊電快死真係事少，d 比較高年份既車fail air care 事大。

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-20 14:19

經過你咁樣解釋, 同你之前既講法其實已經好大分別, 我亦都覺得有好多人都係因為懶成日都覺得未夠mileage jei唔駛換住, 98年車而家先六萬幾既至少有幾架, 92年車而家三萬幾既布有一架, 有架仲好似唔知90/91年而家先八千....冇錯, 係八千...
Actually my stance haven't changed...all I was trying to say was that to follow the manufacturers service schedule (severe or normal) and don't need to service your car more than it really needs.

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-20 14:26

至少, 我講完既都係事實, 唔係剩係吹
I have doubts about what you said is the truth that's why I asked so many questions. Example, uneven dipstick level, and dark oil means oil interval too long.

I mean nobody knows everything, I don't either, but finding out the truth is the main point.

作者: spoonek4 時間: 2009-12-20 17:38

don't need to service your car more than it really needs.

好睇唔同車唔同condition唔同人唔同渣法而定，你部車handle 到，係ok既，其他人既車唔一定得。當原廠recommend既severe schedule都唔係好爽既話，就睇車主本身而定，lease車就部車都唔係自己既，當然做得多都係益下手車主，但係buy out左既，試下service 密d(我唔係齋講換油，其他oil seal/gasket/火咀/火咀線/distributor或coil部件/drive belt/timing belt/水泵etc) 唔係壞事。人同車都好，預防永遠都係勝於治療

Most of the time it's efficient enough. Many small car don't have oil coolers because they don't need it, just the cooling system will do the job.

講真原裝cooling system 係唔係真係handle到，好難講，由於生產成本既關係只會屬於夠用囉，好似以我部fit 仔黎計，本身個水箱係闊身cover 車頭兩邊既既，同好多single over head cam 既civic單邊水箱既就已經爭好遠，睇個scan gauge出黎既reading我部fit 已經efficient好多。

anyway，好多我同字典仔既意見都係由經驗(有d 仲可能幾大代價)得番黎，都係同大家分享下，好似我自己本身做service advisor為例，個客做完鐘意既，下次返黎都開心d。唔鐘意既，你叫佢跟番原廠recommend 既service interval佢都會覺得你up-sell 緊佢，嘻！你肯做我當然歡喜，你唔做service你覺得happy d既，我亦都ok，我已經做左我份內野。

作者: fibbi 時間: 2009-12-20 18:20

It seems that there are some differences regarding the oil change schedule between Japanese car and European car. My car is "supposed" to service in 15K or once a year. Is it just design difference? Would it be better to change the oil more frequently (as it gets older)? I drove highway most of the time and about 30K per weekday. Thanks!

作者: spoonek4 時間: 2009-12-20 19:31

想問下年份，款式同宜家既里數係幾多呀fibbi? 你返放工時間係against traffic﹖車程大約係幾耐﹖

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2009-12-20 22:12

Fabbi, Even those LONG INTERVAL service car, the service indicator is not just based on distance, but how you drive ...

作者: fibbi 時間: 2009-12-20 22:31

My car is 2008 w204. to/from work are both against traffic. time is around 15 minutes one trip (1 trip is about 13K). Now 10K la...I think now the indicator will prompt me for service once a year or every 15K. But my old W202...prompts me for service almost once every 2 years. Same "driving" habit wor... I am thinking I could have done a bit better to my old car so I can be kept longer. So now, I don't want to repeat any "mistake" (if there was any) as I did before. Hope this car can be driven as long as it can.

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2009-12-20 23:05

本帖最後由 Catpiano 於 2009-12-21 00:08 編輯

fibbi .. no worry ..  say you put ~ 15,000 km a yr ..  for W204 ..  you have oil service for your car once a year is more then enough ga la...

It is weird if your W202 only need service every 2 yr??  unless you put less then 10k/yr back then??

Or 6 cyc  now, and 4 cyc back then??

Put it this way, it is a BENZ .. even you can keep the engine in good shape ..  but will you keep the car for 20 year, and put 300,000 km on it?
bi
Even you will keep the car for that long, and even the V6 engine can last that long, but those electronic on C class, for sure won't last that long anyway ..  say may be in 5-6 yr .. will start having electronic problem ..  and will start costing big money to fix ...  ( ~ $150/hr plus )

Unlike yours is the 6.2L ...  then it is a different story ..

作者: fibbi 時間: 2009-12-21 00:33

85# Catpiano

Both old and new cars are 6 cylinder. My old car had lots of problems ... The transmission suddenly got stuck @ a gear that speed can't go high on the highway! I was so scared ar! At the 8th or 9th year the catalyst converter is broken. And I don't even drive fast or aggressive. And no accident wor... (scratch the side..but not even bumper to bumper thing or anything...). And it's not gas efficient as I mentioned before...I hope the new one would be better. So far it's doing good.

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2009-12-21 12:57

講真原裝cooling system 係唔係真係handle到，好難講，由於生產成本既關係只會屬於夠用囉，好似以我部fit 仔黎計，本身個水箱係闊身cover 車頭兩邊既既，同好多single over head cam 既civic單邊水箱既就已經爭好遠，睇個scan gauge出黎既reading我部fit 已經efficient好多。

Like I said, the engineers designed the car so that the stock rad is good enough for most people in most situations. If you have special needs (racing, towing, etc), then go buy/mod whatever you need. Bigger rad for sure cools better than smaller ones but the point is do you really need it. With just a scanner, how do you know the efficiency of your rad? You measured the temperature from the inlet and outlet hose to determine the temp difference? I haven't played with a late model scanner but older ones will just give me coolant temperature and if your cooling system is working correctly, that temperature shouldn't fluctuate too much after the engine reached its operating temperature. So what do you mean when you said "睇個scan gauge出黎既reading我部fit 已經efficient好多"?

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2009-12-21 13:37

Fibbi,

That is the way a BENZ is .. to be fair, they are a bit better now, but those BENZ from late 90's to couple years ago .. are not that great ..

So, even you keep changing oil or coolant 5 times more then BENZ suggests .. something else will break ...

作者: fibbi 時間: 2009-12-21 15:24

88# Catpiano

I was debating E90 or W204 ... but then W204 seems a better deal (more features like blue tooth...), and more appealing look...so...
I do hope it is better than before la... I want to keep >10 yrs ga....

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2009-12-21 15:34

88# Catpiano

I was debating E90 or W204 ... but then W204 seems a better deal (more features like blue tooth...), and more appealing look...so...
I do hope it is better than before la... I want to ...
fibbi 發表於 2009-12-21 16:24

Cross the finger ... but on German car, just can't skip the service.

If you are not a "driver type" of person, then W204 is as good/better then E90.

作者: yoshi86 時間: 2009-12-28 11:48

本帖最後由 yoshi86 於 2009-12-28 12:49 編輯

I am the only one with the car over 250,000kms...

Toyota / Corolla / 1986 / 270,000+kms

1. 冇warm車習慣
2. 用cheap油
3. 4000km換一之油, 用castrol high mileage油

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2010-6-9 12:30

That's low mileage for a 1986! Burn any oil?

作者: 布小熊 時間: 2010-6-9 15:04

回復 91# yoshi86
My first car ran till 350,000km

And I sold it after to a mechanic!

作者: chinabridge 時間: 2010-7-5 09:41

Most new vehicles only come with a 3 or 4 years *Complete Vehicle Warranty (also known as “Bumper to Bumper”); however, mechanical and electrical breakdowns usually occur after the fourth year. With more complicated automotive technology and electronic components, the repair cost is increasing rapidly and this can be frustrating for car owners.
Like most consumers, we would ask the mechanic to only repair those life threatening defects to reduce the impact to our budget and leaving the minor problems as is. However, this will cause us to keep worrying about the driving safety of ourselves and our family.
With the extended warranty coverage, we won’t need to worry about the repair cost! We would naturally want the car dealer to repair all necessary items on the vehicle and everyone would have a peace of mind!!! （后顾之忧，心安理得）

With the extended warranty coverage, you will surely get a higher resell value because the warranty is transferable. The buyer would not need to worry about problems that were not repaired and the problems that may arise.

The best and cheapest time to extend the warranty is when it is new. The premium increases according to the time and mileage. Most vehicles within 7 model years and within 100,000km are eligible for extending the warranty (after a free mechanical and electrical inspection).

Of course, the vehicle would still need to be serviced as per the schedule required by the manufacturer and shall be repaired at any authorized car dealership in Canada or in the U.S.A.

Safe driving may be able to prevent us from car accidents, but this would not prevent us from the wear and tear that causes the mechanical and electrical breakdowns. Car insurance costs about $2,200 per year. It costs only about $2,000 to extend you car’s *complete vehicle warranty for an additional 5 years, which is, only about $500 per year. As experience by most drivers, the repair cost would rise to the highest point in the 5th to 8th year. Extending the warranty can eliminate such burden for car owners and save us from unexpected expenses.

Get Warranty for your car today!
For more information, please contact:

your AutoExperts, recommended by thousands of GVRD local customers @ www.autoexperts.ca

Add: 6910 MERRITT AVE., BURNABY, BC V5J 4R6 (Imperial & Kingsway, behind Metrotown)
Toll Free:1-(888)-882-3993
Tel: (604) 438-1001 ("KK")
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