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標題: Hello Derek! [打印本頁]

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-6-30 10:28 標題: Hello Derek!

[youtube]4s3qAHd7Xac[/youtube]

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2010-6-30 13:05

got passing? wow. i never dare joining stuff that allows passing. Mission have so much concrete walls. Not to mention that it looks like a wet day?

作者: Derek128 時間: 2010-6-30 13:11

thats the result of lated brake & brake wasn't strong enough(overspeed), trailed brake then rear end swing out

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-6-30 13:17

It was only a lapping day, and there were strict protocols for passing. It was not allowed for novice drivers in the morning, and passing was only limited to the front straightaway in the 2nd half of the day. Also, a point by from the lead driver (car to be passed) is required before the trailing car (the passing car) can overtake the lead car.

Intermediate and advanced drivers had 2 straightaways as passing zones, so everything is very orderly la.

-Lik

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-6-30 13:21

who decides who is novice / intermediate / advanced?

作者: Derek128 時間: 2010-6-30 13:30

who decides who is novice / intermediate / advanced?
ACC-HE 發表於 2010-6-30 13:21

The Event Chair or VCMC ELT
depends on your experience, your will, how you drive on that day & then what kind of car you are driving

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-6-30 13:40

I should mention that Derek was driving in the intermediate group, but I only qualified for the novice group~

-Lik

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2010-6-30 14:40

I guess passing in the main straight is okay. Passing at the back straight (after turn 2?) is a bit tight and a bit short, not something I'd dare doing. Not to mention turn 3? is the tightest corner and somewhat hard to judge.

Good stuff and looks like a lot of fun tho!

BTW. Who took the video and how was it taken? Was the camera mounted or someone was at the back seat? What camera and what mount??

作者: Derek128 時間: 2010-6-30 15:17

Lik you were in novice, because of you will. You should try intermidiate for the next event.

Howard we had four passing Zones, but only used two due to the weather. And all passing is under the point by pass rule. The leading driver will easy off the gas, and let others pass.

The video was from Carson, he mounted it on his roll bar or his hardtop. Not sure wht hardware he used

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-6-30 15:49

one more..

[youtube]dbCklAcsHdo[/youtube]

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2010-6-30 17:10

4 passing zones? gum dor? After turn 2, after turn 3, after turn 6 and after turn 9?

作者: spoonek4 時間: 2010-6-30 17:33

佢好似用GoPro camera

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-6-30 17:35

What did you guys do to prep your car?

Saw the thread at VCMC, new brake fluid is the minimum?

作者: Derek128 時間: 2010-6-30 19:55

4 passing zones? gum dor? After turn 2, after turn 3, after turn 6 and after turn 9?
BiscottiGelato 發表於 2010-6-30 17:10

PASSING ZONES (PASS ON LEFT only with point by)
zone A - btwn T9 and T1 (main straight)
zone B - btwn T2 and T3
zone C - btwn T6 and T7
zone D - btwn T3 and T4

ZONE C & D WILL NOT BE OPEN IF RAINING

作者: Derek128 時間: 2010-6-30 20:05

What did you guys do to prep your car?

Saw the thread at VCMC, new brake fluid is the minimum?
ACC-HE 發表於 2010-6-30 17:35

http://www.vcmc.ca/forum/showthr ... amp;highlight=track

Just a heads up to guys some important items that we will be checking out on your car at tech tommorow.
1. Brakes (min. 50% all around, less than 50, Fail), firm and not soft
2. Steering component nothing loose(Tie rods ends, steering wheel freeplay)
3. Suspension component nothing loose ( Balljoint, bushings)
4. Light working (brake, signal, headlight, etc.)
5. Fluid not leaking, if it needs new fluid, I recommend Motul
6. Battery
7. Throttle not sticking
8. No loose item in compartment(carpet, coins, cds, dice, etc.)
9. Tire, have some tread left, I recommend Kumho if you need to buy some. autocross tire for track(rain or grooved, or else you might fail), since I believe we do require tread detph to be 3/32 or more and typical autox tire has 4/32 when new, and we take reading from the baldest point of the tire, so if it looks good in one area and another is bald, fail. You might also fail if your tires are corded, really old, not in the condition for track, etc....It is up to safety steward's decision. So if you have doubt, go buy a set of new tire, it should pass. or else there is a chance you might run into problems.
10. Wheel nut/bolt torqued to factory spec, I recommend bringing your own tool and socket, speed things up and minimize scratching your lug nuts/bolts.
11. Windshield NO crack
12. Door window can be opened
13. No loose body panels
14. Seat belt working in factory condition, aftermarket harness DOT approved and not expired
15. Coolant level adequate
16. Door can be opened from both inside/outside
17. Engine drive belt in good condition
18. Windshield wiper operating and working in good condition for the track
19. Emergency brake working
20. Sound limit is 95 Db for the site
21. Fuel cap present and not leaking if car is flipped over
22. Helmet
23. Shoe

Heads up, though not required.
Full tank of gas in car
5.1 or racing brake fluid, I recommend Motul, best bang for the buck
It might be wise to run higher viscosity engine oil for track, since it does get really hot

If i miss something, just post it up. Thanks,
Jack

IF YOUR CAR FAIL TECH, YOU DON'T RUN.
and there will be no refund. I hate to say this, but I do not want any suprise then.

fanbanlo

if u wanna go to track day
you should come out & autox first
at least you will know what to do or what not to do when things happen

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-6-30 20:53

The thing you definitely want to do is to completely lift throttle when you are half way through the corner. The tail end will come around, and you car will spin out. I heard those are fun.

Other than that, as long as you don't do anything stupid, you're gonna be fine la.

-Lik

作者: pkphilip 時間: 2010-6-30 21:27

I wish I can join, looks very fun. However... car racing is a $$$ burning business , and in my current financial situation, those money are saved for something bigger - you can guess what they are la...

Philip

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-6-30 22:00

The thing you definitely want to do is to completely lift throttle when you are half way through the ...
Lik 發表於 2010-6-30 20:53

completely lift throttle when you are half way through the corner? u mean.. before for after apex? or is the speed to fast entering the corner?

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-6-30 22:01

fanbanlo

if u wanna go to track day
you should come out & autox first
at least you will kn ...
Derek128 發表於 2010-6-30 20:05

been to AutoX 3 times la bor~

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-6-30 22:17

本帖最後由 Lik 於 2010-6-30 22:21 編輯

Well, Philip, racing can certainly get expensive, but I also think it's only a matter of how much you want to / will allow yourself to spend.

When you already have a car, the only immediate extra costs you are looking at for the Mission track are:

- an oil change before your race
- probably a brake flush before the race

Tracking your car will require accelerated preventive maintenance. Reasonable consumables in addition to the 2 above items will probably include more frequent transmission oil changes, more frequent brake pads and rotor replacement, more frequent tire replacement, and that's probably about it. But mind you, these costs are generally spread over a reasonable period of time. And if you don't have a super competitive mindset and just want to have some good, fast, and legal fun, the wear and tear costs don't really go up that fast.

As somebody says, doing a track day is cheaper than getting a speeding ticket~ If you only plan to do 1 track day a year, a $500/yr budget will probably be enough. It may sound like a lot for just one day, but part of that $500 includes regular maintenance you would have done on the car anyway.

We have another lapping day in late September. Think about it la?

-Lik

作者: Derek128 時間: 2010-6-30 23:30

As somebody says, doing a track day is cheaper than getting a speeding ticket~ ]

LOL

VCMC Track day 1..............cheaper than a god damn speeding ticket
June 8 at 2:07am

作者: Derek128 時間: 2010-6-30 23:33

completely lift throttle when you are half way through the corner? u mean.. before for after apex? or is the speed to fast entering the corner?
ACC-HE 發表於 2010-6-30 22:00

been to AutoX 3 times la bor~
ACC-HE 發表於 2010-6-30 22:01

If u autox more u would have known it

作者: pkphilip 時間: 2010-6-30 23:58

本帖最後由 pkphilip 於 2010-7-1 00:00 編輯

completely lift throttle when you are half way through the corner? u mean.. before for after apex? ...
ACC-HE 發表於 2010-6-30 22:00

Basically you slow down to enter a turn (let go of gas) and immediately apply gas when you are exiting the corner. You have no torque when you don't accelerate.

The key is to lower to the right gear to matches the speed so you can maximize the torque when you floor it during exit. I know it can be hard on a AT car, but don't you have sport shift/steptronic in your TSX?

To experience that, other than going on the track, you can get the feel by playing Forza or GT5 with a proper force feedback wheel. The Logitech GT and G27 wheel gives you pretty close sensation on how it feels. I just turn off all the assist play in profesional/simulation mode, needless to say, I was so embarassed when I overspeed/oversteer and spin-out. Yes, you can spin out on slow cars too (Suzuki Swift) if overspeed.

That's my poor man's way of racing, unfortunately, I no longer have this setup caz I am broke.

Bro Lik... even $500 is a bit too much for me as I rather use to pay of my debts....

Philip

作者: spoonek4 時間: 2010-7-1 00:11

been to AutoX 3 times la bor~
ACC-HE 發表於 2010-6-30 22:01

3次都唔夠你學/練D 咩野.......

philip: 想抵玩D既話可以好似阿力同derek咁autocross丫，如果唔係既話track day都係好似阿力講唔係好多錢，第一次有instructor跟係會貴D，但係有D school 都好抵玩，再加埋做次alignment，搵人換偈油波箱油迫力皮同埋check清楚部車安唔安全有冇野就黎爛，再加埋當日用既電油同飯錢，$500我諗真係夠。你做完果D service唔係話即刻又要再做過架嘛，套皮如果買得岩既話都唔會話一次玩完，之後行街都仲有排玩。

你反正都好似有套避震﹖我上年同我舊公司其中一個客部原裝mazda3跑同一組人地都係咁跑啦。

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-1 00:46

completely lift throttle when you are half way through the corner? u mean.. before for after apex? or is the speed to fast entering the corner?
ACC-HE 發表於 2010-6-30 22:00

In case I didn't quite make the joke obviously enough, you do not -- I repeat, you DO NOT want to completely lift throttle when you are going through a turn. Backing off a bit is probably ok, but if you completely lift throttle at any point during your turn, there is a very good chance that your car's tail end will whip around, and the car will spin out.

If you do that at Mission, you either end up on the grass, or you end up kissing the concrete wall.

-Lik

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-7-1 10:07

still not understanding the physics behind "DO NOT want to completely lift throttle"... can someone pls explain? thx.

作者: spoonek4 時間: 2010-7-1 11:06

去一場autocross你自己試下扭緊軚果陣縮油，feel 下部車有咩反應你就知我地講咩......

所以話去3場autocross真係唔算得D咩，好多基本野你都未有D 咩機會去學

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-1 11:07

It's all a matter of simple weight transfer and traction.

When you're going into / ripping through a corner at speed with at least a partial throttle, weight is concentrated on your back wheels. If you suddenly lift throttle, weight transfers from the rear wheels to the front, and along with the weight transfer, traction is lost at the rear wheels and gained at the front wheels. The change in traction along with the car's momentum (of not wanting to turn) will very easily cause your rear tires to break traction. The result is a oversteer, or worse, a spin out.

Not something you want to do when there is a car chasing you at 100+ kph.

-Lik

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2010-7-1 12:27

Lift throttle is rarely a problem in low speed corners which is pretty much all of them at Mission. I dont' recall any turns long enough where I'd wanna apply steady and relatively high throttle pressure through the corner for extended periods of time, such that I'd even have a chance to upset the car's balance by much with a lift of the throttle. I'd say over powering on corner exits for RWD cars will be the more common way oversteering happens at Mission.

Having all that said, with a TSX, it'd be pretty difficult to overcome the VSA and get the tail slipping. I'd say chasing the car in front too close with brakes fading (common for stock brakes) is the closest thing that'd get u into trouble at Mission.

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-1 13:12

Well, BG, my comment was meant to be more of a general one, although it could certainly apply to the Mission track as well. In fact, it was probably the cause of the concrete-kissing incident we had a Mission on Monday. Purportedly, an MR2 came out of T9 (last corner before the straight) a little too aggressively, and the rear end came a bit loose. The driver was probably taken by surprised and lifted on the throttle. I'm guessing that he must have done this while he was trying to countersteer. Snap oversteer ensued, and the car's rear corner + quarter panel.

All I'm saying is, unless you are really planning on getting some throttle lift oversteer, you generally wouldn't want to lift mid-corner. And with Acche's TSX, he did some stuff with it, and the back end might be easier to whip around.

-Lik

作者: Derek128 時間: 2010-7-1 13:44

Howard for oversteer its the rear wheel lose grip. Tsx is a fwd car so the vsa or wtever shouldn't do much about letting the car oversteer. Cause the front wheel still have grip. The vsa may not let you to save the car when the rer end is swinging out. You may have problem while you ste on gas and no power reach the ground

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2010-7-1 17:43

本帖最後由 BiscottiGelato 於 2010-7-1 17:49 編輯

Technicalities, I am not very familiar. Nor do I fully understand how VSA works, esp for front wheel cars. You can try this for an explanation
http://world.honda.com/news/1997/t970702d.html

You'd just have to try it to believe it. I've seen an S2000 w/ VSA unable to break out the rear on a wet surface no matter hard the driver tries (driving in a circle, first lift off for weight transfer then flooring throttle for traction break). Once VSA is turned off, he spinned out multiple times just going in a circle without trying anything (probably minor throttle adjustment already threw him out).

Not to say that one should be reckless once the electronics nannies are on. Definately no substitute for driving the car properly (smoother cornering, slow in fast out, mid corner lift off/hard brake, over gassing on corner exits, etc). Just telling ACC-HE that if he wanna try the track, it's fairly safe as long as he's not reckless. With VSA ON, oversteer should be the least of his concern.

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2010-7-1 17:48

Well, BG, my comment was meant to be more of a general one, although it could certainly apply to the ...
Lik 發表於 2010-7-1 13:12

Turn 9 is quite tricky i'd admit. Hard to resist applying lots of gas, and sometimes too much gas, which is usually the initial cause of the oversteer. Subsequent contraction of the throttle definately makes matter much worse.

作者: BarF1 時間: 2010-7-1 20:52

本帖最後由 BarF1 於 2010-7-1 20:54 編輯

VSA WILL let the tail come around ... I had a bigger slide with VSA on in the wet ...

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-7-1 21:17

AutoX with VSA on is not fun... do ppl leave VSA on on track? I can assure you VSA does try to combat against oversteer on my FWD, but you can still oversteer on wet surface.

作者: pkphilip 時間: 2010-7-1 21:22

本帖最後由 pkphilip 於 2010-7-1 21:25 編輯

As you guys said, there are a few extra accelerated services needed before going... the issue is that my work schedule is so tight that I can't find a good time to get my car for service.

Ever since my mechanic left Canada (he's too old to do them anyways), I have no one who I know well enough to service my car, thus I do most of the service from dealers these days and they charge $110/hour which is a bit over my budget. Nonetheless, I do all my regular services before they are due anyways, and more often than dealer suggested.

I have my new swaybars now, but I am still waiting for the LF side Koni Yellow to show up as they are still back-ordered until August.

On top of that, there are a few odd noises that I need to address:
1) Front Passenger side brake will squeal when lightly applying brakes. It will not happen once the car is slower than certain speed. I went under and checked and pads still have about 75-80% left.
2) Rattling noise close to axle when stopped with brake fully applied, in both Drive and Reverse.
3) Front Passenger suspension will squeak when steering is to the right while driving over speed-bumps and to the driveway/parking lot/mall.

How could I go on track when I don't even know what is going on?? The noise seems to come on randomly and the dealer can never hear them. When I am driving in underground parking, the noise is more obvious. My car sounds like on of those old beat-up cars..... so embarassing sometime....

Philip

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-7-1 21:22

3次都唔夠你學/練D 咩野.......spoonek4 發表於 2010-7-1 00:11

ya, you'll have to show me next time then.

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-7-1 21:30

if you completely lift throttle at any point during your turn, there is a very good chance that your car's tail end will whip around, and the car will spin out.
Lik 發表於 2010-7-1 00:46

Is this what you're describing? Like when you exit a corner, you gas, then suddenly completely lift throttle? Then the tail will swing out? I think I've experienced that before... Don't ppl use that technique to get through solum sometimes?

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-7-1 21:47

wah.. Ken's video is so awesome...
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150204430100276 (friends only I think..)

作者: spoonek4 時間: 2010-7-1 22:30

ya, you'll have to show me next time then.
ACC-HE 發表於 2010-7-1 21:22

搵次好天D 一齊去玩番日啦，十分歡迎你坐我車！

你會見到o係1:01左右我o係度counter steer，我就係縮左油等部車甩.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xHnf0Mw01A

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-7-1 22:38

回復 40# spoonek4

did you do that on purpose?

作者: spoonek4 時間: 2010-7-1 22:52

叫做啦，想試下令份尾rotate得快少少，不過就做得過火左......

作者: Derek128 時間: 2010-7-1 23:40

本帖最後由 Derek128 於 2010-7-1 23:57 編輯

Just telling ACC-HE that if he wanna try the track, it's fairly safe as long as he's not reckless. With VSA ON, oversteer should be the least of his concern
BiscottiGelato 發表於 2010-7-1 17:43

RWD 太多油會甩
VSA 可以令你唔甩

FWD trail brake, 彎中 Lift throttle 個尾會出
VSA 可能會令你救唔到架車

希望fanbanlo 知道understeer & oversteer O既成因先至去track day la

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-7-2 00:04

本帖最後由 ACC-HE 於 2010-7-2 00:10 編輯

just looked at more pics on track day... my TSX so stock, and AT, will be laughed at for the whole day la.

Not to mention the OE pad and rotor, I'm afraid I can no longer stop the car after a lap or 2.

Maybe I should stay with AutoX shuen la... haha....

作者: Derek128 時間: 2010-7-2 12:17

本帖最後由 Derek128 於 2010-7-2 12:18 編輯

Maybe I should stay with AutoX shuen la... haha....
ACC-HE 發表於 2010-7-2 00:04

then hopefully we can see you this sunday
haven't see you for a long time
we had a few AT cars for thye last 2 event
they were doing fine

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-7-2 13:29

then hopefully we can see you this sunday
haven't see you for a long time
we had a few AT cars for ...
Derek128 發表於 2010-7-2 12:17

NICE! Thanks for the head up, who's going??

Sunday, July 4th
Mostly Cloudy High 18°C
Cloudy with sunny periods. Chance of showers.

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2010-7-2 15:12

本帖最後由 BiscottiGelato 於 2010-7-2 15:16 編輯

RWD 太多油會甩
VSA 可以令你唔甩

FWD trail brake, 彎中 Lift throttle 個尾會出
VSA 可能會令你救唔到 ...
Derek128 發表於 2010-7-1 23:40

RWD Power Oversteer
DSC cuts throttle/apply brakes to outer wheels

RWD Lift off Oversteer
DSC pply brakes to outer wheels to stop spin momentum

FWD Lift off Oversteer
VSA apply brakes to outer (in Honda's case, outer front) wheel

In no case wll stability control systems apply gas to any wheels for correction (not with low end systems from BMW/VSA from Honda anyways). I am no control engineer of any vehicle stability systems here. From what I've seen + some of my interpretation, stability systems simply does not recover the vehicle the way a driver will recover the vehicle (via restoration of weight balance, applying gas when oversteering + counter steer). Electronics system cut in a lot earlier than a usual driver will react, and uses braking of specific wheels to remove the angular momentum of the spin.

In such a case of lift off oversteer on a FWD Acura, VSA probably stops the spin momentum before you react to the oversteer. Not from experience from any VSA equipped FWD cars, nor a Honda engineer here. I'd give their engineers some credit when they say braking only the outer front wheel will stop the spin momentum. Obviously there will be times where the oversteer will not be completely stopped by the VSA. Nothing is perfect. Neither are any drivers. I've even seen Lewis Hamilton caught out in the dry spinning out his vehicle. Regardless, I'd not discredit the ability of stability systems on stopping oversteering conditions, lift-off or power, FWD or RWD.

If you haven't seen this, Bosch ESP vs Tiff Needle on ice with a FWD Jaguar X-Type at 2:00 mark. SSlow motion shows it does so by braking the outer front wheel. Tiff Needle simply couldn't react and counter steer in time at 70mph on sheet ice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3m24bjkfg0

All in all, going with Drivings Unlimited, they simply recommend you to leave ESP/VSA/DSC on if you have it on the track. It just saves your ass a lot more times than u'd imagine. Obviously one should learn to drive and not get the vehicle into oversteering conditions in the first place. However with ESP/VSA/DSC on, it dramatically reduces both power and lift-off oversteer on all vehicles on the track.

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2010-7-2 15:20

just looked at more pics on track day... my TSX so stock, and AT, will be laughed at for the whole d ...
ACC-HE 發表於 2010-7-2 00:04

Obviously you might find it odd if you go with VCMC, as most cars are modded there. However from my experience going plenty of AutoX and track days with BMWCCBC/Drivings Umlimited, tons of AT cars, heavy beasts like 5 series or Subaru Wagons. Most people runs stock cars, stock brakes, stock pads, stock tires, etc etc. It's about having fun and learning to drive in a safe environment, not so much about souping up the car at all.

In fact, it might be a better learning experience with stock tires and stock brakes. You learn the characteristics of your tires/brakes better. It takes more skills to manage your brakes properly to not over use them and pre-maturely getting them into fading temperatures.

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-7-2 15:42

回復 48# BiscottiGelato

BMWCCBC/Drivings Umlimited fun? how different are their events?

作者: 布小熊 時間: 2010-7-2 15:50

回復 49# ACC-HE

well BG drives a BMW so it make sense to go to car club that knows about his car...

I don't know... I haven't been to many auto-x event (just watching) but I think the races have diff classes... and there is a stock class for sure. I know a friend who've been at those event for years and he is always driving his AT car. I am still waiting for their girls only driving class.... wonder if it's going to happen next year... may be...

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-7-2 15:53

why girls only? This is driving, not a yoga / gym class, who cares.

作者: fibbi 時間: 2010-7-2 15:53

My hubby also goes to track (mission and portland) with stock car....(SMG)

I have attended a driving class myself..it's pretty useful but I'm still scared to experience those "under steering over steering" so I should have sign up for more classes too.

作者: spoonek4 時間: 2010-7-2 16:05

fanbanlo你應該都知所有autocross event都有分class，所以你唔係用一部廠車去同D 改裝車砌，你當然可以用你本身既時間同同組既人比較，亦都可以用PAX time睇下你撼唔撼得低D 改裝車.....

依我睇法，你去VCMC event有你著數因為多好多渣唔同車種既快人(唔止快車)o係度，同埋真係一個正規autocross event，你學到野既機會會多D！你去BMWCCBC果D佢地絕大部份都係尾驅車你叫佢教你渣部FF車佢真係分分鐘頭都痕X埋。

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-7-2 16:07

本帖最後由 ACC-HE 於 2010-7-2 16:36 編輯

回復 53# spoonek4

hahaha... ya, good point.

thx.

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2010-7-2 16:51

本帖最後由 BiscottiGelato 於 2010-7-2 17:07 編輯

fanbanlo你應該都知所有autocross event都有分class，所以你唔係用一部廠車去同D 改裝車砌，你當然可以用你 ...
spoonek4 發表於 2010-7-2 16:05

Not quite. Don't know if you even been to BMWCCBC events to make such a statement. BMWCCBC is just the event organizer, Drivings Unlimited conducts everything on that day (well, maybe other than taking photos and such...)

Drivings Unlimited is basically a group of people that does nothing but driving, racing, teach driving, etc. They train police, security personells, coach racers, organizes corporate events, manufacturer vehicle test drive events, etc. Some of the instructors races part time themselves. They basically drive for a living and I don't think they'd have problem teaching you on FWD or RWD. They also seem to have more experience with more varying types of cars and students (think what kinda cars D 呀叔s and Si Lais can drive in to BMWCCBC/Drivings Unlimited's Safety courses: SUVs, wagons... or police cars, armored vehicles....). I've seen stock 90s Corollas, super souped up CRXs, X5, Volvo wagons... to Lotus Elise, 911s new and old, and in one case on a Mission day, a Porsch Carrera GT... So it's definatley not just BMWs there. It's not BMWCCBC members teaching you there. Executives usually just show up to ensure payment and attendance, then they just sit back and relax. Drivings Unlimited are the ones who does all the heavy lifting.

Pro on BMWCCBC/Drivings Unlimted events are you get tons of times around the course. Averages 40+ a day for about $140 bucks? No cone work, everything is taken care of for you. Also, professionals who drives and teaches for a living. Cons on BMWCCBC/Drivings Unlimited events are they do not time you. And it can be exhausting to put in 40ish laps a day.

I've been to both VCMC events and Drivings Unlimited events. I personally enjoy the latter's events more. More relaxing, more consistency in coaching among instructors. And simply putting 8 laps in + cone work just wastes my day. To purely just have fun driving, BMWCCBC hands down. Otherwise I'd recommend taking a VCMC Velocity to learn the basics, practicing with BMWCCBC events, and when you know what you are doing, go back to VCMC's events to get a time to verify your skills.

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-7-2 17:01

本帖最後由 ACC-HE 於 2010-7-2 17:03 編輯

http://www.bmwccbc.org/schools/index.html#skills

July 11 2010 at British Columbia Driving Center at Pitt Meadows Airport
http://www.karelo.com/enter_res.php?&BID=49#Ev9102

Cool, sounds fun!

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2010-7-2 17:05

July 11 2010 at British Columbia Driving Center at Pitt Meadows Airport

Cool, sounds fun!
ACC-HE 發表於 2010-7-2 17:01

I'm thinking of going to the Driving Skills (Auto X day) in August, then hitting Mission (non-passing) again with them coming October.

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2010-7-2 17:16

RWD 太多油會甩
VSA 可以令你唔甩

FWD trail brake, 彎中 Lift throttle 個尾會出
VSA 可能會令你救唔到 ...
Derek128 發表於 2010-7-1 23:40

And just noticed and want to confirm... Trail braking shouldn't lead to throttle lift, unless you are pointing to something else. Trail braking as far as I understand from track days and from Wiki, points to the continual application of brake past the point of steering into the corner, and the gradual reduction of brake pressure as the vehicle increases cornering angle and reach towards the apex.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_braking#Driving

Throttle lift, as I'd imagine, would happen after you move onto the gas pedal to maintain constant vehicle speed through the apex. An abrupt lift of the throttle either in the Apex or when powering out of the corner will cause excessive weight shift to the front, inducing oversteer.

作者: 布小熊 時間: 2010-7-2 18:32

why girls only? This is driving, not a yoga / gym class, who cares.
ACC-HE 發表於 2010-7-2 03:53 PM

I am just hoping that girls won't be as competitive. So I won't feel as stress. I penic when I drive sometimes...

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-7-2 20:11

回復 59# 布小熊
Then maybe BiscottiGelato's bmwccbc is a good choice for you.

作者: 布小熊 時間: 2010-7-2 22:04

回復布小熊
Then maybe BiscottiGelato's bmwccbc is a good choice for you.
ACC-HE 發表於 2010-7-2 08:11 PM

nan....

作者: spoonek4 時間: 2010-7-2 23:02

Not quite. Don't know if you even been to BMWCCBC events to make such a statement. BMWCCBC is just ...
BiscottiGelato 發表於 2010-7-2 16:51

當年既我都幾熱衷玩autocross，幾乎一有event就同字典仔走落去玩，去好多UBCSCC同VCMC既event。我唔係冇諗過玩BMWCCBC既event，但係我convince唔到自己去洗百幾銀去跑佢地D event，特別係我開始跑track day之後，真係俾多幾廿蚊既參加費用我可以跑到4個30min既session(可能更多)，點解我要重覆又重覆o係一個咁細既場跑去wear out我自已部車﹖autocross event既意義在於個course次次event都會轉，車手係要o係果幾個run之內跑到你自己最快既時間出黎，一個正式既event係唔會有幾廿個run俾你去跑，有幾廿個run就真係最好見到自己摸到個course爛熟同真係渣盡晒部車既表現出黎囉，如果唔係去黎我唔見得有咩意思。

唔係賣廣告，果百幾蚊我會去take VCMC velcocity或者真係跑D正式既VCMC event，起碼有班快人o係度俾我做目標，同多D唔同既車主同senior交流我諗我會學到多野過去一個比較relax(又或者你可以話"hea")既event。

作者: B2L2 時間: 2010-7-3 00:24

Diff people of course could have your own choice and choose what you think best suit you. That's not the matter. ACC-HE goes off what ever you like.

My view is that autox is a sport and is also a competition game. We went them to learn, practice and eventually gauge oursalves against other. Sounds like that's what all boys/men love to do.

Driver training program is not timed like BG said and that eliminated the competition factor. If you simply enjoy driver training and fun, maybe this are the events for you instead.

作者: Derek128 時間: 2010-7-3 00:49

And just noticed and want to confirm... Trail braking shouldn't lead to throttle lift, unless you ...
BiscottiGelato 發表於 2010-7-2 17:16

應該係FWD trail brake or 彎中 Lift throttle 個尾會swing出
但亦好睇路面同車setting
會由減少understeer, 到oversteer 都可能發生

作者: Derek128 時間: 2010-7-3 00:50

本帖最後由 Derek128 於 2010-7-3 00:52 編輯

btw........... fanbanlo
I don't think your car is stock as far as I remember
so I'm sure your car will do more than just fine

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2010-7-3 01:08

本帖最後由 BiscottiGelato 於 2010-7-3 01:10 編輯

當年既我都幾熱衷玩autocross，幾乎一有event就同字典仔走落去玩，去好多UBCSCC同VCMC既event。我唔係冇 ...
spoonek4 發表於 2010-7-2 23:02

I guess if you want a competitive setting, there's no replacement for real AutoX. Just want to correct the hearsay that was stated (Drivings Unlimited staff, who drives fast for a living, will not be able to teach one on how to drive a variety of cars (fast/slow) and FWD cars).

I've been to both kinds. For my style, for most cases I'd go with BMWCCBC events, for both track days and AutoX days. One'd argue that the VCMC AutoX events are expensive in a $ and time per lap basis. Where as someone else would say that BMWCCBC is expensive in a event to event basis. If one want to maximize the number of laps per $ and time spent, and also to have relatively a stress fee, no cone work experience, BMWCCBC Skill Challenge days is a good option. If one want a competitive setting, timed laps and want a low cost per event, proper AutoX event is probably a better option. Each should choose based on their personal preference and goals on which type of event to go for.

I think if ACC-HE is worried about pressure, relatively skill level and car competitiveness, BMWCCBC might be a better event to go for.

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-7-3 08:47

btw........... fanbanlo
I don't think your car is stock as far as I remember
so I'm sure your car wi ...
Derek128 發表於 2010-7-3 00:50

ya, stock from Outside. haha...

作者: BarF1 時間: 2010-7-3 08:58

Whats wrong with stock ?
<-- stock car ...

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-3 09:38

For typical usage, there is nothing wrong with stock ge. In fact, stock is generally a very good balance of all the factors that are involved. But you know it's more fun when you tweak the car here and there to better suit your needs mah.

And hey, even though your car is in stock class, it isn't really completely stock la?

-Lik

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-7-3 15:32

hmm? no, I'm not running stock class. I'm running Street Prepare

作者: Derek128 時間: 2010-7-5 01:49

hmm? no, I'm not running stock class. I'm running Street Prepare
ACC-HE 發表於 2010-7-3 15:32

I guess you just missed VCMC series 2 ...........

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-5 09:04

Here is the autox/track weapon you're looking for, Acche~

http://forum.ubcscc.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3976

-Lik

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-7-5 09:22

回復 72# Lik

TRADE : for Acura TSX? haha... no!

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-7-5 09:22

回復 71# Derek128

Wanted to go ga, but it looked rainy.

作者: 布小熊 時間: 2010-7-5 09:48

回復 74# ACC-HE
It didn't rain but it was cold.... I only stayed ~2 hrs to watch and I didn't bring a proper jacket.... (only a wind breaker... )
I will be more prepare next time!

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-5 10:50

TRADE : for Acura TSX? haha... no!
ACC-HE 發表於 2010-7-5 09:22

You said it yourself that your TSX was gutless and porky ar mah. The AP1 S2k will still be gutless in the first 6k, but then when VTEC kick in, you're in the VTEC la la land, yo~!

And of all things, this guy wanted to do a trade with the TSX. If that wasn't perfect, I dunno what is la~

-Lik

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-7-5 10:55

how to drive 雨點外母 to drink tea with S2k!?

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-7-5 11:10

本帖最後由 ACC-HE 於 2010-7-5 11:35 編輯

Mercedes-Benz Driving Academy anyone? just received this email...

The Mercedes-Benz Driving Academy puts you in the driver's seat where you will experience the exhilarating performance, driving control and handling competence of a Mercedes-Benz.

A team of highly experienced driving instructors work closely with a maximum of 12 participants in a safe and controlled environment. You will learn to master and perfect your driving techniques while learning and understanding the skills to drive in difficult, real life conditions as well as reacting to emergency situations.

There is no vehicle sharing, so you will spend most of your time behind the wheel of a broad selection of our exciting Mercedes-Benz vehicles, including several of our AMG models.

We offer 2 different courses to meet your needs – the half-day Driving Experience course or the full-day Mastering Performance on track course. No need to own a Mercedes-Benz to participate. Register today for a truly unique driving program.

Upcoming events:
July 10, Driving Experience, BC Driving Centre
July 13, Mastering Performance, Mission Raceway Park
August 14, Driving Experience, Mission Raceway Park

The Mercedes-Benz Driving Academy will make you a better and safer driver.

Driving Experience - $395
Mastering Performance - $1,595

http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/cont ... ving_academy_-.html

作者: 布小熊 時間: 2010-7-5 11:36

how to drive 雨點外母 to drink tea with S2k!?
ACC-HE 發表於 2010-7-5 10:55 AM

haha good point! So are things getting "official" soon?

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2010-7-5 12:21

Mercedes-Benz Driving Academy anyone? just received this email...
ACC-HE 發表於 2010-7-5 11:10

If you like to have a car provided to you, this is an option.

BMW have similar courses, but not avail in Vancouver. They have it all over the states and also in Toronto/Montreal tho. Low level they'll provide you with a 335, higher level they'll provide you with M cars.

Keep in mind these are courses tho. None of them are open track/autox days.

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-5 12:29

how to drive 雨點外母 to drink tea with S2k!?
ACC-HE 發表於 2010-7-5 10:55

That's precisely the point! LOL~

Besides, she has a car herself ar mah. You can always drive over first, and then drive her car to chauffeur the 雨點外母大人

-Lik

作者: sko 時間: 2010-7-5 13:03

I am just hoping that girls won't be as competitive. So I won't feel as stress. I penic when I dri ...
布小熊發表於 2010-7-2 18:32

I want to try auto-x too! Never tried myself but had been to some that BG went for photos.

They have girls only lessons?? I guess I wouldn't mind co-gender classes as long that we're all beginners.

作者: zuesel 時間: 2010-7-5 13:54

I want to try auto-x too! Never tried myself but had been to some that BG went for photos.

They h ...
sko 發表於 2010-7-5 13:03

I've tried before. They are co-ed. However, during their races, they classify them into gender and car classes.

作者: sko 時間: 2010-7-5 14:11

I've tried before. They are co-ed. However, during their races, they classify them into gender and ...
zuesel 發表於 2010-7-5 13:54

icic. thanks.

which one did you go to? did you like it?

作者: zuesel 時間: 2010-7-5 14:14

icic. thanks.

which one did you go to? did you like it?
sko 發表於 2010-7-5 14:11

I went to the Velocity class. Must attend coz it's a good deal. When I joined back then, it was a 2 day class (1 class room) another day (track). It was fun!

But not doing it anymore la. Too old...hahaha

作者: Derek128 時間: 2010-7-5 17:19

how to drive 雨點外母 to drink tea with S2k!?
ACC-HE 發表於 2010-7-5 10:55

drive 雨點's car
if she doesn't have one, drive 雨點外母's car
if she doesn't have one, drop off 雨點 first & then pick up 雨點外母

作者: pkphilip 時間: 2010-7-5 19:52

You also have an excuse not to drive your car because it is a "summer" and "2-persons" car.

You can also say, "car is so low, too bumpy and don't want anyone to throw-up in the car". :-)

Philip

作者: B2L2 時間: 2010-7-6 10:07

本帖最後由 B2L2 於 2010-7-6 10:10 編輯

Driving Experience - $395
Mastering Performance - $1,595
ACC-HE 發表於 2010-7-5 11:10

So you're saying that I need to pay to drive a MB, don't you?? LOL

I like this thread, the topic changed so much in 9 pages.

作者: 布小熊 時間: 2010-7-6 10:16

haha... since the title doesn't suggest any specific topic... we can talk about ANYTHING. As long as it's something that you want Derek to see.

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-6 10:40

haha... since the title doesn't suggest any specific topic... we can talk about ANYTHING. As long as it's something that you want Derek to see.
布小熊發表於 2010-7-6 10:16

In that case, I'm gonna suggest Derek instead of Acche to pick up the S2k. Why settle for just the steering wheel when you can get the whole car?

RWD and 9k rpm VTEC FTW~!!!

-Lik

作者: ACC-HE 時間: 2010-7-6 11:23

wouldn't it be a bitch to drive for daily use? i can rarely reach 5k... let alone 9... :S

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-6 11:36

For daily driving, it won't be that different from your TSX or any recent Civic -- there is still no torque until VTEC kicks in~

But driving isn't just about power, man. The car will still handle beautifully, except that the AP1's are prone to oversteer, which means the car will spin out. But if the car has traction control / VSA, then it's nothing you'd have to worry about la.

-Lik

作者: B2L2 時間: 2010-7-6 11:47

Before v-tec, the s2k is just a RWD Civic. That's my friend keep saying about his car (not the one for sale in the link).

My experience with the stock s2k is that it has very natural cornering in aggressive city driving already (same for ITR) which is great. If AP1 is more prone to oversteering, that could ended up with too much fun.

作者: Derek128 時間: 2010-7-6 12:38

In that case, I'm gonna suggest Derek instead of Acche to pick up the S2k. Why settle for just the ...
Lik 發表於 2010-7-6 10:40

i will keep driving my civic untill i can't improve my time anymore. Rogers and James showed me that I still have at least 4 -5sec to shave off in my civic. But fanbanlo hasn't really start yet. Starting with a fast B stock winning car can make him become a fast driver alot easier.

作者: B2L2 時間: 2010-7-6 12:45

Derek, you sure there is really 4-5sec out there to be picked up? Reality check is easy, have you compare the two hp/weight ratios? Their shorter wheel base is also something you can't achieve too.

Actually what spring rate you're running? The one picture you posted on VCMC, your car dive pretty steeply.

作者: 布小熊 時間: 2010-7-6 12:51

Derek, you sure there is really 4-5sec out there to be picked up? Reality check is easy, have you c ...
B2L2 發表於 2010-7-6 12:45 PM

I think they drove his car.

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-7-6 12:59

Remember what Uncle Joe says? You can't make a fridge fly mah. Granted, your SiR isn't exactly a fridge, but the S2k is a top contender, man. Heck, I still can't believe the silver S2k newbie whooped my sorry a$$ on Sunday!

Buy la~ buy la~

-Lik

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2010-7-6 14:00

本帖最後由 BiscottiGelato 於 2010-7-6 14:07 編輯

Watch out. Only 06+ AP2 have VSA. Having seen the oversteer tendency of the S2k with VSA off/no VSA, and having seen so many crashing... buyers beware.

Awesome summer car. Not something I'd wanna daily drive in the rain, esp w/o VSA.

作者: Derek128 時間: 2010-7-6 14:39

Derek, you sure there is really 4-5sec out there to be picked up? Reality check is easy, have you c ...
B2L2 發表於 2010-7-6 12:45

I think they drove his car.
布小熊發表於 2010-7-6 12:51

佢地渣過我架車
由開始時差4,5秒, 到last run 差3秒

spring rate 400lb front, 385lbs rear
未夠磅數不過要渣街冇計

張相睇落咁樣係因為我後高前低
等個尾會易D出

作者: B2L2 時間: 2010-7-6 14:40

I think they drove his car.
布小熊發表於 2010-7-6 12:51

Oh, well. Then Derek really needs a kick.

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