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標題: 經濟世界第二　國人何以冷漠 [打印本頁]
作者: sheep    時間: 2010-8-20 09:04     標題: 經濟世界第二　國人何以冷漠

經濟世界第二　國人何以冷漠
中國超過日本成為世界第二大經濟體，被西方媒體熱議，但中國老百姓卻對此十分冷漠。在很多人看來，國富並沒民強，很多老百姓的實際生活水平比過去還有所下降實事求是地說，中國雖然是經濟大國，但並非經濟強國，中國人均GDP只有日本的十分之一，還不到世界人均GDP的一半。中國到目前為止也是窮人最多的國家，根據世界銀行發布的報告，中國仍有二點五四億貧困人口，平均每五個人就有一個屬貧困人口，比例與柬埔寨和危地馬拉差不多，中國距離大國崛起仍相當遙遠。

最重要的是，多年以來中國GDP的增長，是建立在對資源、環境和老百姓長遠福祉透支的基礎上。有的代價是不可逆轉的，譬如長江源頭的沙漠化、黃河源頭的水枯竭，以及遍布神州的水污染。其實，很多地方的GDP增長，扣除環境成本、扣除被毀壞的財富，則經濟增長將下降一半以上。

對普通老百姓而言，國家雖然愈來愈有錢了，但自己的荷包卻愈來愈癟了，生活水平一年不如一年。當看到富人們不斷購買世界頂級奢侈品、官員們不斷入住豪華別墅時，老百姓感受不到國家的發展與自己有關，反而覺得被國家拋棄。

再說，中國雖然世界經濟第二，但財富卻不斷流向西方。一方面國家外匯儲備不斷用於購買美債、日債，愈買愈上癮，愈買愈虧損。

另一方面，大量貪官將財富轉移到西方國家，大批先富者移民海外，中國改革開放三十多年積累的財富，悉數付之西流，神州大地只留下殘山剩水。

大國寡民 富國窮民
此外，中國世界經濟第二，但並沒有轉化為國家實力。最近幾年中國GDP不斷增長，但國家外交卻愈來愈軟。印度霸佔中國藏南地區，不斷叫囂「必有一戰」，中國罵不還口；日本佔據釣魚島，中國仍堅持擱置主權爭議；就連越南霸佔南海近三十個島礁，中國亦不敢將其驅逐。富起來的中國，比貧窮時代的中國更怕事，國人絲毫難以感受到作為一個大國國民的自豪感和榮譽感。

世界經濟第二的中國，充其量只是一個肥大國家，而不是強大國家。在西方國家眼中，中國早已不是一條張牙舞爪的龍，而是一隻待宰的羊。清朝道光年間，中國當時的國民生產總值世界第一，佔了全球的三分之一，但英法聯軍一來還不是乖乖投降，中國銀元滾滾西流？所以，目前中國的世界經濟第二，確實沒有多少值得驕傲的資本。

中國的發展目標，應該是國富民強，而不是像現在這般大國寡民、富國窮民。事實上，像如今這樣的畸形發展，根本不具可持續性，也難以得到老百姓的認同，相反，愈發展危機愈多，最終可能導致一場前所未有的大動盪。
作者: lo_pak    時間: 2010-8-20 10:30

本帖最後由 lo_pak 於 2010-8-20 10:31 編輯

Having 1 billion citizens, how can you catchup the per capita GDP with developing countries like the States/Japan in 1 generation?? It's picking bone inside the egg...
作者: 快樂牛郎    時間: 2010-8-20 10:40

中國雖然世界經濟第二，但財富卻不斷流向西方。一方面國家外匯儲備不斷用於購買美債、日債，愈買愈上癮，愈買愈虧損。


So true
Americans own Chinese
作者: rockypath    時間: 2010-8-20 10:50

回復 1# sheep

Can you show the souce and author of this article?

Articles like this can only fool people like you.
作者: fibbi    時間: 2010-8-20 10:54

The article has a point.
But in all the capitalist countries, 貧富懸殊 is always a problem.
To make the problem even worse is corruption lor....
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-8-20 11:41

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-8-20 11:46 編輯

India corruption is even worse. China's per capita GDP is 3 times that of democratic India
So if China's GDP increases by 10% per year and the Chinese currency appreciates by 3% per year, it will take about 20 yrs to catch up with Japan and the US. This time frame is quite reasonable. If Japan or the US crumble faster by themselves, then China can catch up even sooner. It is just a numbers game.
作者: daimo    時間: 2010-8-20 11:47

looks like it's from 東方日報
作者: sheep    時間: 2010-8-20 12:03

回復  sheep

Can you show the souce and author of this article?

Articles like this can only fool p ...
rockypath 發表於 2010-8-20 10:50


Oriental Daily from HK
作者: sheep    時間: 2010-8-20 12:06

回復 4# rockypath


    Articles like this can only embarrass people like you
作者: 快樂牛郎    時間: 2010-8-20 12:41

The article has a point.
But in all the capitalist countries, 貧富懸殊 is always a problem.
To make  ...
fibbi 發表於 2010/8/20 10:54


I reiterate, 貧富懸殊 is a GOOD thing.
It drives people forward.

In a world where everyone is equal, there's no motivation to innovate/advance.
作者: fibbi    時間: 2010-8-20 13:33

本帖最後由 fibbi 於 2010-8-20 13:34 編輯

回復 10# 快樂牛郎

我都贊成多勞多得。
I don't agree the system of 做又36，唔做又36.
However, when the rich get more richer and poor get more poorer, there is a problem.
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-8-20 13:56

回復  快樂牛郎

我都贊成多勞多得。
I don't agree the system of 做又36，唔做又36.
However, when the  ...
fibbi 發表於 2010-8-20 13:33


This problem of rich and poor happens everywhere. What they are doing now is to invest heavily in the western parts of China. Also, they are investing in their healthcare system. These measures can easily solve the problem.
作者: Catpiano    時間: 2010-8-20 14:11

I don't agree the system of 做又36，唔做又36.

fibbi 發表於 2010-8-20 13:33


For sure not the case in Canada..

In Canada? 做又36, 唔做又36 x2 or x 3 ....
作者: 快樂牛郎    時間: 2010-8-20 14:19

回復  快樂牛郎

我都贊成多勞多得。
I don't agree the system of 做又36，唔做又36.
However, when the  ...
fibbi 發表於 2010/8/20 13:33


that's not really the case
it's just that the gap is getting wider, but as a whole everyone is getting richer
作者: lo_pak    時間: 2010-8-20 14:22

本帖最後由 lo_pak 於 2010-8-20 14:24 編輯

回復 6# peter236

You are showing your horrible Math here again without careful reading the post...

If you are talking about the lump sump GDP, China can match US within 1 or 2 decades...

However, if you are talking about per capita GDP, it's totally different. In the past 4 decades the States can only achieve 3x) and Japan 5x)...

It's the GDP per capita that counts the living standard of the general public...
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-8-20 14:27

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-8-20 14:34 編輯
回復  peter236

You are showing your horrible Math here again without careful reading the post...

...
lo_pak 發表於 2010-8-20 14:22


I am talking about the per capita GDP, not total GDP. In the first sentence, I already talked about per capita GDP: "India corruption is even worse. China's per capita GDP is 3 times that of democratic India". Please read my previous post again.

And these are just casual calculation just for a quick discussion. There is no need for you to bash so quickly. In fact, per capita GDP does not even totally reflect standard of living. You have to take into consideration the consumer prices. A person making HK$10,000 per month in China may have higher standard of living than a person earning the same amount in Hong Kong, due to lower consumer prices in China.
作者: lo_pak    時間: 2010-8-20 14:39

本帖最後由 lo_pak 於 2010-8-20 14:41 編輯

回復 16# peter236

Sorry though, maybe I'm just a bit nervous on numbers...

In statistics, there is no right or wrong for numbers. Data can be meaningless as long as the result makes sense. It's greatly influenced by the method of interpretation...
作者: fibbi    時間: 2010-8-20 15:27

回復 6# peter236


    India好唔好關咩事？如果India係世界上最corruption嘅國家，中國尾二，咁係唔係好好？咁你係唔係開心啲？

咁中國咁大國家，要大部份人一下子富起來唔係咁易，而佢可以三十年就樣沿海地區先富起來，係做得唔錯。但係唔可以忽視中部西部啲赤貧地區，佢哋都要發展，佢哋都應該獲得應有嘅基建，應有嘅社會設施。仲有，啲基建嘅＄唔會落入貪官手上。
作者: fibbi    時間: 2010-8-20 15:28

回復 14# 快樂牛郎


    For people in rural area, I am not sure if their life is getting better than 30 years ago...
作者: fibbi    時間: 2010-8-20 15:34

回復 13# Catpiano


    haha yeah...Canada is sure more 共產 than China now...
作者: 快樂牛郎    時間: 2010-8-20 15:55

回復  快樂牛郎


    For people in rural area, I am not sure if their life is getting better than 3 ...
fibbi 發表於 2010/8/20 15:28


they didn't have a tv 30 years ago
now they do

i guess you can argue that the cost of living is higher now
but even with that
there's no guarantee that everyone would gradually become richer
you need to work hard to deserve that
作者: fibbi    時間: 2010-8-20 16:35

回復 21# 快樂牛郎


They may have TV at home but there is not necessary tables/chairs and lighting in the school.

Anyway, in a fair world, word hard = deserve to get more. But in a corrupted place...everything is about "relationship"...so...work hard not necessary be better off lor.
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-8-20 18:20

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-8-20 18:23 編輯
回復  peter236


    India好唔好關咩事？如果India係世界上最corruption嘅國家，中國尾二，咁係唔係好好 ...
fibbi 發表於 2010-8-20 15:27


We talk about India because India also a has large population and ancient culture. For comparison purposes, even though India is democratic, it is even more corrupt than China. So even if China becomes democratic in the future, it may not solve all the problems.

The Chinese have already started to invest heavily in the infrastructure of the interior regions. As can be seen, they are building lots of highways and railways to serve the growing economy of the interior regions.
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-8-20 18:35

回復  peter236

Sorry though, maybe I'm just a bit nervous on numbers...

In statistics, there is n ...
lo_pak 發表於 2010-8-20 14:39

If we use the GDP (purchasing price parity) method, China GDP has overtaken Japan many years ago. So it is important to take into consideration the different consumer price levels in different countries.
Using the nominal GDP method, China has just overtaken Japan.
作者: 快樂牛郎    時間: 2010-8-20 20:23

回復  快樂牛郎


They may have TV at home but there is not necessary tables/chairs and lighting in  ...
fibbi 發表於 2010/8/20 16:35


finding a relationship is also a kind of work
作者: ricrick    時間: 2010-8-21 00:38

中國人的愛好就是，掙到錢就揾定後路走佬
作者: ricrick    時間: 2010-8-21 00:59

有無人覺得peter仔好X煩？想吾想將佢和諧
作者: peter236    時間: 2010-8-21 19:42

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-8-21 19:45 編輯
中國人的愛好就是，掙到錢就揾定後路走佬
ricrick 發表於 2010-8-21 00:38


You are a good example of this behaviour, since you came here. But then Canada's immigrants come from all over the world. From the early European immigrants, to now the Indians, Phillippino, Vietnamese, and Korean immigrants.
作者: lo_pak    時間: 2010-8-21 20:57

Everybody please behave...  You guys make me feel live I'm living in a dirty county...
作者: mcjohnjohn    時間: 2010-8-22 19:25

有無人覺得peter仔好X煩？想吾想將佢和諧
ricrick 發表於 2010-8-21 16:59

可唔可以比d 實質d 既建議?
係唔係趕佢返香港幫手起高鐵?
作者: mukmuk2    時間: 2010-8-23 07:59

提示: 作者被禁止或刪除 內容自動屏蔽
作者: mukmuk2    時間: 2010-8-23 08:02

提示: 作者被禁止或刪除 內容自動屏蔽
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2010-8-23 10:38

本帖最後由 somewhereintime 於 2010-8-23 10:49 編輯

回復 32# mukmuk2

Hey welcome back MukMuk2
where is the original MukMuk?



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