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標題: China Plans 1,000 km/h Super Train [打印本頁]

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-9-15 12:44 標題: China Plans 1,000 km/h Super Train

http://www.dailytech.com/China+P ... in/article19268.htm

China is planning to build a 1,000 kph locomotive, which would nearly double the current record speed. (Source: China Daily)

The new train design revives a concept bandied about since the 1960s -- a vacuum tube train. To date the concept has never been commercially implemented. (Source: Capsule Pipelines)
Design would almost double today's record speed

We've discussed a couple of times the U.S.'s growing gap in high speed rail compared to China. As fossil fuels become more scarce, more expensive, and more dangerous from a political standpoint, mass transit solutions look increasingly appealing. High speed rail is particularly promising as it promises not only to reduce fossil fuel use, but also to get you to your destination faster.

Researchers at the Chinese Academy of Sciences and Chinese Academy of Engineering (CAE) reportedly are preparing a record-shattering 1,000 kilometer per hour train, according to the Beijing Times.

The new trains will make use of a vacuum tube to reduce friction losses. They will first build a prototype vacuum magnetic suspension train capable of traveling between 500 and 600 kph. That gives it a shot at breaking the record set by Japan's JR-Maglev train, which achieved a speed of 581 km/h (361 mph). The record for a traditional railed train was set by France's TGV at 574.8 km/h (357.18 mph).

After the prototype, the group plans to implement a smaller train capable of speeds of as much as 1,000 kph. Shen Zhiyun, a member of the research team, comments, "The speed can be reached by making vacuum pipelines for maglev trains to run through, with no air resistance."

Daryl Oster, who owns the U.S. patent on evacuated tube (vacuum) rail, now works at the CAE. Along with Zhiyun and another researcher, Zhang Yaoping, he is leading efforts to deploy the technology. The team hopes to begin laying ETT rail lines within the next ten years.

It would use less steel than current trains, but would be slightly more expensive. China is targeting a cost of 200 million yuan ($29.54M USD) per kilometer for its traditional rail. The Evacuated Tube Transport (ETT) rail would cost approximately 210 to 220 million yuan ($31.0M USD to $32.49M USD) per kilometer.

Currently the planned trains travel at 350 kph. A cost increase of 5 to 10 percent seems a fair tradeoff to score nearly twice the speed. It's just one more example of how ambitious China is when it comes to high speed rail.

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-9-15 13:33

Theoretically yes, Practical no... Far too expensive to travel inside vacuum tubes... Better to take it on planes instead...

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-9-15 14:27

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-9-15 14:31 編輯

Theoretically yes, Practical no... Far too expensive to travel inside vacuum tubes... Better to take ...
lo_pak 發表於 2010-9-15 13:33

But the per km cost is $32.49m, just a little higher than the per km cost of $29.54m for regular highspeed railway. Each train carries way more passengers than a plane. Traveling by train requires less security screening than by plane. Building many airports everywhere will take up too much lands.

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-9-15 15:04

本帖最後由 lo_pak 於 2010-9-15 15:32 編輯

The higher the speed, the more constraints... $32.49M/km is not an estimate, it's rather a "guessimate" (and a poor one, IMO). The superconductor used on magnetic trains are too expensive and the technology is still not mature... In order to travel at 1000km/hr, most tracks have to be on pretty straight sections, terrain detour to avoid building tunnels didn't work ($$$). Maintaining vacuum pipeline is another challenge, in ground level it's still okay (but still costly though); once you are underground, that's another story, my guess is you have to build a double hull structure, ie. tunnel inside tunnel, whereas the outermost tunnel is at normal pressure and the inside tunnel is under vacuum... That's why I think it should cost way more...

And, in order to maintain the pipeline in vacuum, there should be many gates along the way. At 1000km/hr = 277m/sec, even if you set the gates at 10km interval (have you ever seen a vacuum pipe that's 10km long??), from gate to gate it spends only 36 secs. Imagine if there's a gate malfunction, what would happen? OK, let's say you are having an emergency stop, you are decelerating at 1G (free falling force just like you are jumping out of a building), you need almost 14secs travelling for almost 4km to complete stop...

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-9-15 16:12

The higher the speed, the more constraints... $32.49M/km is not an estimate, it's rather a "guessima ...
lo_pak 發表於 2010-9-15 15:04

Should I believe in you at all? These scientists and engineers are actually doing the research on this tehnology. And you are just here commenting randomly without any data and research papers to back up your claims.

作者: Guy 時間: 2010-9-15 17:45

本帖最後由 Guy 於 2010-9-15 17:46 編輯

Should I believe in you at all? These scientists and engineers are actually doing the research on ...
peter236 發表於 2010-9-15 16:12

you should...those scientists and engineers are the frontiers... however they are based on the concepts and theories.
There is an engineering report and a TV show after that in discovery channel.
Claim that is possible but it's not within the human factors.
which mean it is okay to transport goods and cargo. But to transport passengers, it is not safe (such as acceleration and deceleration front, back and sideways, and the accident factors).

If it does get build, it will be like planes over again. The current safety standard is developed and improved by so many investigations and recommendations after so many plane crashes over the decades.

作者: mukmuk2 時間: 2010-9-15 18:48

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作者: tiffiant 時間: 2010-9-15 19:32

china had a 1000km china? seriously exploded when running?

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2010-9-15 19:34

Yeah ..

PLAN ar ma ..

作者: mukmuk2 時間: 2010-9-15 19:57

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作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-9-15 22:32

本帖最後由 lo_pak 於 2010-9-15 22:50 編輯

回復 5# peter236

I beg you should study harder when you are young...
Even a high school student can get these numbers within minutes, nothing fancy, it's only Newton's Laws of Motion...
I'm not talking about superconducting and aerodynamics... already...

If it's economical, magnetic train would have been popularized since it's invented couple decades ago by the Germans (The best mechanical engineer group on earth). The technology is always there, it's just a matter of fact if it can be done in an effective and efficient way...

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-9-15 23:41

回復 3# peter236

The $32.49M unit cost per km is really a joke...
For US, the unit cost is +/- $110M;
For Japan, the unit cost is +/- $100M;
Those data were from 2003 estimate, and those are based on "regular" magnetic train track...
For China Shanghai one, the unit cost is +/- $40M in 2002.

作者: blue20ae 時間: 2010-9-16 00:00

But the per km cost is $32.49m, just a little higher than the per km cost of $29.54m for regular h ...
peter236 發表於 2010-9-15 14:27

Those numbers are the build cost. To maintain the system under good vacuum seal, the ongoing cost surely is much higher than regular railway lines. If the ongoing cost is expensive then the train ride will be also expensive as well.

Also we are talking about an object traveling at 1,000 km/h, I bet the security getting on this train is much tighter than regular airliner. If you blows up an airplanes, other airplanes can still fly; if you blow up one high speed train, the whole system will have to be shutted down and cleaned up before any train can run again.

作者: blowfish 時間: 2010-9-18 23:13

so as those buses straddle other cars, what if any idiot who change lanes all of a sudden, the bus will drag them along!

So much cheaper to fly. Or shooting flies with Elephant guns or AK 47 , it will work too.

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