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標題: 溫房價全加最貴北美第5 [打印本頁]

作者: myversa 時間: 2010-9-27 08:37 標題: 溫房價全加最貴北美第5

This is no surprise...

不少人認為溫哥華高居全國之冠的房價高得有點離譜，也有不少人認為與美國或世界其他一些城市比較，溫哥華房價還不至於離譜。在目前加國房價開始出現下修跡象之際，溫哥華房價是否太高這個問題，尤其引人關切。一份最新報告來得及時，說明這兩種觀點各說明了問題的一部分。

成立於1906年的美國最老牌房地產仲介商「科威國際不動產公司」（Coldwell Banker）的這份報告，以一般人心目中的理想住宅──「四臥室、二浴室」的獨立屋為標竿（北美洲稱為「經理級人員住宅」Executive Home），以世界觀的透視，將溫哥華的房價呈現在應有的位置上。

報告指出，溫哥華這類房屋平均價為132萬4000元，全國最高；與全國第二位（以大城以言）卡加利的平均價55萬1920元相較，高出一倍有餘；全國第一大城多倫多平均價49萬5398元，更是瞠乎其後。從這個角度來說，溫哥華的房價看來像是有點兒離譜。

卑詩省規模較小一點的城市，房價之高也緊跟在溫哥華之後，未遑多讓：奧肯那根河谷大城基隆那（Kelowna）為91萬6697元，省會維多利亞亦達67萬4450元。

不過，溫哥華雖全加最高（均價相當於128萬9179美元），但與好些美國城市比較則有所不如，在北美洲排名第五：落後於加州新港灘（Newport Beach；182萬6348美元）、加州帕羅奧圖（Palo Alto；147萬9227美元）、紐約州萊伊（Rye；132萬5500美元）、加州舊金山132萬5103美元。溫哥華也是唯一進入北美「十大」的加國城市。

與世界主要城市相比，溫哥華亦比不上上海的149萬4072美元、杜拜的141萬3750美元、羅馬的138萬4810美元等。

「科威國際」加拿大分公司的蓋哈（John Geha）表示，溫哥華房價確實遠高於加國同儕，但不難找到原因，乃在於它位置優越。

因為這個條件，它能吸引國際買家以及新移民買家等等，而從全球市場透視，它的價位也並非不合理的。

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-9-27 09:13

本帖最後由 lo_pak 於 2010-9-27 09:19 編輯

回復 1# myversa

If it's double than Calgary and way higher than Toronto, I will not comment it's normal.
A healthy housing market should "match" with the general household income and reflect the "productivity" of the local economy.
We are not California, nor the NYC.
And, when you have an eye on the rental market, you know that the return is quite low in comparison.

作者: KittyLeung74 時間: 2010-9-27 11:51

Unhealthy market in Vancouver. Unaffordable hoursing. Unbearable cost of living.

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-27 12:51

回復 myversa

If it's double than Calgary and way higher than Toronto, I will not comment it's nor ...
lo_pak 發表於 2010-9-27 09:13

Most people who buy those >$1million properties are not looking at rental potential... many expensive properties in Vancouver are empty! The properties used for rental investment purposes only sum up to a fraction of the whole real estate market.

It's hard to say what's "normal" and what's not. The price difference between NYC and New Jersey is huge too (and it's only an hour away)... but it's been like that for decades without real "adjustments", so it's hard to say that it's not normal for Vancouver to be much more expensive than Calgary or Toronto because these cities are so far apart.

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2010-9-27 13:12

Unbearable cost of living.KittyLeung74 發表於 2010/9/27 11:51

As long as you rent, the cost of living is low, comparatively. Nobody says you have to own a house. If you want to own one so bad, you can always live somewhere else, maybe in Detroit?

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2010-9-27 13:16

因為這個條件，它能吸引國際買家以及新移民買家等等，而從全球市場透視，它的價位也並非不合理的。

Things always look 合理 before they blow up.

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2010-9-27 13:25

And it seems it's time to book a flight to Newport Beach.

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-27 13:38

And it seems it's time to book a flight to Newport Beach.
快樂牛郎發表於 2010-9-27 13:25

I love Newport Beach... nice houses and good restaurants. I was going to buy a place there a couple years ago when the prices dropped, but i had no cash then -_-" there were some really good deals back in the days!!!

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-9-27 14:58

回復 4# 大C姐

You are right in the first point. Most people buying those luxury houses are looking towards return from asset appreciation instead of rental potential.

However, there can't be a large gap in between the housing market and the rental market.

The price of properties in New Jersey and NYC is not compared by distance, it should be the economic of scales.

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2010-9-27 15:31

Well .. I guess since compare to 四臥室、二浴室的獨立屋 in HK .. ( say $20million Can ) price in Van is not bad .. so .. free walkers still love to buy houses in Van ..

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-9-27 15:43

回復 10# Catpiano

Everywhere else has to be cheap if you compare to HK....

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2010-9-27 16:09

回復 Catpiano

Everywhere else has to be cheap if you compare to HK....
lo_pak 發表於 2010-9-27 15:43

That is one main reason, why HK/Van houses price are high .. many people from mainland .. fry fry fry ..

作者: mukmuk2 時間: 2010-9-27 18:01

提示: 作者被禁止或刪除內容自動屏蔽

作者: cremedelacreme 時間: 2010-9-27 22:32

damn those mainlanders....frying the housing market! So now its so $ for us to buy!

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2010-9-27 22:35

damn those mainlanders....frying the housing market! So now its so $ for us to buy!
cremedelacreme 發表於 2010/9/27 22:32

don't blame others when you are the one who doesn't have $ to buy

作者: cremedelacreme 時間: 2010-9-27 22:44

don't blame others when you are the one who doesn't have $ to buy
快樂牛郎發表於 2010-9-27 22:35

I buy already. But just felt bad for the others that haven't, as the price keeps going up n up!

作者: ATGB 時間: 2010-9-27 23:05

It's no surprise to see why our house prices is #1 in Canada. Yes we're in the same country as Toronto and Calgary but seriously given a choice why would anyone (Chinese or not) chose those cities over Vancouver unless your job requires you to. Vancouver just has far superior weather and living environment. When you factor in foreign money, it's really no rocket science for house prices here to go up.

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2010-9-28 00:04

It's no surprise to see why our house prices is #1 in Canada. Yes we're in the same country as Toronto and Calgary but seriously given a choice why would anyone (Chinese or not) chose those cities over Vancouver unless your job requires you to. Vancouver just has far superior weather and living environment. When you factor in foreign money, it's really no rocket science for house prices here to go up.

ATGB 發表於 2010-9-27 23:05

Yeah .. I can't agree more .. for years and years ... Vancouver house price is high .. but the weather and enironment are good ..

Also, there are many choice .. if can't afford Vancouver high house price, can live in Richmond, burbaby, port moody, coquitlam, delta etc .. still nice weather, close enough to Van, and much less then Vancouver. ^_^

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2010-9-28 00:30

Yes we're in the same country as Toronto and Calgary but seriously given a choice why would anyone (Chinese or not) chose those cities over Vancouver unless your job requires you to. Vancouver just has far superior weather and living environment. When you factor in foreign money, it's really no rocket science for house prices here to go up.
ATGB 發表於 2010/9/27 23:05

I am not sure about Calgary, but there are many things that you can get in Toronto that you cannot in Vancouver. Vancouver is still a relatively small town. So if you want to live in a metro city, Toronto is a much better place. While the weather is important, I don't think it's the only consideration. And even when we talk about the weather, the only thing that's good about Vancouver is the relatively mild temperature. But for those who enjoy beach lives and water sports, Vancouver is not the place to be.

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2010-9-28 00:33

I actually don't really enjoy the Pacific Northwest. I would rather live in a coastal city in California or the East Coast.

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 08:43

damn those mainlanders....frying the housing market! So now its so $ for us to buy!
cremedelacreme 發表於 2010-9-27 22:32

Honestly, it's not just the mainlanders who have the money in Vancouver... Let's look around, there are a lot more rich people buying houses and boats in Vancouver from middle east, eastern europe and the states.

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 08:53

I am not sure about Calgary, but there are many things that you can get in Toronto that you cannot ...
快樂牛郎發表於 2010-9-28 00:30

Every city is different, that's why i would NEVER compare other major Canadian cities to Vancouver (i would compare Burnaby with Vancovuer East, or West Van with Vancouver West). Let's be honest, Canada is BIG! People are not buying these expensive houses to live in Vancouver to "find a nice job" or has "a nice museum", people are mostly buying them as vacation/ recreational purposes. So in that sense, the climate is in fact a major consideration factor!

Why are houses so expensive? they're obviously jacked up by the SUPER rich and their SUPER expensive houses. In order to understand, one must consider their natural habitat. Think about it, what do rich people do? They sail (we have multiple docks for boats) and they ski (we have local mountains and close to whistler), what does Toronto have in comparison?!

作者: sheep 時間: 2010-9-28 09:04

They sail (we have multiple docks for boats) and they ski (we have local mountains and close to whistler), what does Toronto have in comparison?!
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 08:53

In such case, the sky high price will be the resort area and not the downtown 500sq ft condo.

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 09:17

In such case, the sky high price will be the resort area and not the downtown 500sq ft condo. ...
sheep 發表於 2010-9-28 09:04

downtown 500SF is not THAT expenisve (225K-300K)... it's definitely affordable for single people working in downtown.

Let's say buying a $300,000 bachelor on a $60,000 annual salary, that's only 5 years (which is still significantly lower than 9.3 years of Vancovuer's median). i think 5 years annual salary is quite reasonable for living in major downtown area! the prices are not jacked up by these small bachelor suites.

作者: ATGB 時間: 2010-9-28 09:55

I am not sure about Calgary, but there are many things that you can get in Toronto that you cannot ...
快樂牛郎發表於 2010-9-28 00:30

Yes I agree that Toronto has a lot to offer in terms of a Metropolitan lifestyle that's still very appealing to singles and young couples but I think Vancouver still offers a more versatile and balanced long term living environment. I'm not saying Toronto is a bad place at all and that's why the prices there are very comparable to Vancouver.

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 10:01

In such case, the sky high price will be the resort area and not the downtown 500sq ft condo. ...
sheep 發表於 2010-9-28 09:04

And I did not know that very rich people love living in some 1-million dollar **** hole in the west van.

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 10:08

downtown 500SF is not THAT expenisve (225K-300K)... it's definitely affordable for single peo ...
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 09:17

Are there a lot of people making 60k a year? Mind u, household average is 70k to 80k.
2 beds, 2 baths 500k to 600k.
3 beds, 3 baths about a million.
Hmm... i get the picture, people living in downtown are either single or super rich ROFL.

作者: Look4chrisng 時間: 2010-9-28 10:12

It am ok with million dollar homes.

But, why buy a million home which you need to put security metal bars all over your windows in order to feel safe?

Where I live is pretty much ghetto-ish (in term of crime rate and the look in general). Yet, Single family home is above 1M.

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 10:17

Every city is different, that's why i would NEVER compare other major Canadian cities to Vanc ...
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 08:53

So rich people love rain?
Wow, just too much things I can learn from your BS. Thank you.

FYI, whistler is not doing so well... so the resort BS is not working that well...

作者: Look4chrisng 時間: 2010-9-28 10:48

downtown 500SF is not THAT expenisve (225K-300K)... it's definitely affordable for single peo ...
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 09:17

For Single people making 60K, after tax take home pay is about $3700. If Mortgage and strata fee/ Ptax eat up 2k per month. You have 1700 to spend per month. That is $56/day.

No wonder so many working in the sex industry in DT condo.

作者: sheep 時間: 2010-9-28 11:26

For Single people making 60K, after tax take home pay is about $3700. If Mortgage and strata ...
Look4chrisng 發表於 2010-9-28 10:48

正所謂
大話怕計數

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 11:35

For Single people making 60K, after tax take home pay is about $3700. If Mortgage and strata ...
Look4chrisng 發表於 2010-9-28 10:48

Actually, spending 40% of before-tax income on housing is not that bad.
However, average people in vancouver is spending up to 60% of income (before tax) on housing... so u get the idea. OHHH !!! I am sorry, the stat must lie, b/c everyone in Vancouver is rich and doesn't need mortgage! They just pay with CASH!! woot!

作者: sheep 時間: 2010-9-28 11:41

Every city is different, that's why i would NEVER compare other major Canadian cities to Vanc ...
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 08:53

俾著我係有錢佬呀
我就無咁蠢
去買物業
我會去到邊
住自己鐘意
有衝動
有感覺嘅地方
唔會去來去去都係嗰間
打佢係皇宮都係假

作者: Look4chrisng 時間: 2010-9-28 11:45

回復 32# MSN04

Agree,

That's boil down to : If you have earning paychecks(ie pay full taxes). You are stupid.

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 12:28

So rich people love rain?
Wow, just too much things I can learn from your BS.  Thank you.

FYI,  ...
MSN04 發表於 2010-9-28 10:17

BS? The reality is, there ARE people buying expensive properties in Vancouver, whether or not they like the rain or the city. You can't argue with reality, that's the fact!

Plus who says rich people need to actually make Vancouver their primary residence? Get a realilty check! Those who buy multi-million dollar homes most likely have more than one house! You don't even have to look far, how many hong kong families here have a property here and a property in HK? And only come to Vancovuer in teh summer when it's not raining???

Use your common sense before making such a bold statement, little kid.

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 12:31

Are there a lot of people making 60k a year? Mind u, household average is 70k to 80k.
2 beds, 2 b ...
MSN04 發表於 2010-9-28 10:08

My example is only for someone who works in downtown with no kids, I dont' think making 60K in downtown vancouver is THAT extraordinary... of course not eveyone makes that much, but they also dno't all live in a 500SF downtown apartment!

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 12:38

For Single people making 60K, after tax take home pay is about $3700. If Mortgage and strata ...
Look4chrisng 發表於 2010-9-28 10:48

I don't think you have to sell your body living on $56/day! that's an insult to a lot of people (who live on perhaps even less than that). If you live in a 500SF apartment in downtown you probably don't have a family to support, and you spend next to $0 on transportation. $56 for just food and entertainment a day is actually plenty! even if you go out for dinner and movie every night by yourself, i think you still have money to spare.

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 12:41

回復 MSN04

Agree,

That's boil down to : If you have earning paychecks(ie pay full taxes). You ...
Look4chrisng 發表於 2010-9-28 11:45

As i always said, those people who buy multi-million dollar properties are not earning paycheques... so you can't justify their purchases using someone with a regular job and a normal (median/ average) salary.

The Vancouver real estate market (those statistical averages) are largely skewed by those really expensive properties that normal people (like me) will never consider buying.

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2010-9-28 12:44

I don't think you have to sell your body living on $56/day! that's an insult to a lot of people (who live on perhaps even less than that). If you live in a 500SF apartment in downtown you probably don't have a family to support, and you spend next to $0 on transportation. $56 for just food and entertainment a day is actually plenty! even if you go out for dinner and movie every night by yourself, i think you still have money to spare.大C姐發表於 2010/9/28 12:38

$56 a day is indeed quite a lot.
I live on less than $30 a day

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 12:46

BS? The reality is, there ARE people buying expensive properties in Vancouver, whether or not th ...
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 12:28

Are you stupid or sth? Did I ever said that there is no rich people buying properties in Vancouver? There are rich people every where buying properties as their 2nd, 3rd, 4th... home. Do you even have stat to support your BS that enough rich people are here to be the factor? If not, it wasn't a bold statement, it was pure BS from you. Go get some help.

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 12:52

My example is only for someone who works in downtown with no kids, I dont' think making 60K i ...
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 12:31

You got any problem with you brain or sth?  that you can only read selectively?
I did not disagree that 60k is not a common salary to get.  I even said that 40% or pre-tax is reasonable to spend on housing.
So what is your take on those 500k - 1 mil condo?  All for rich people?  I didn't know that downtown only filled with people who are single or extraordinary rich only.

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 12:59

I don't think you have to sell your body living on $56/day! that's an insult to a lot of peop ...
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 12:38

please note that the $56 is for everything else. Do you believe that someone who make 60k should not be able to afford other "luxury" like a car? Of course there are a lot of people living on less than $56 a day, but I don't think that's the type of people you were referring to in your original post. Please be consistent.

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 13:02

Are you stupid or sth? Did I ever said that there is no rich people buying properties in Vancouver ...
MSN04 發表於 2010-9-28 12:46

The statistic is already been GIVEN - it is already a FACT that Vancouver overall real estate prices are highest in the country. If it's not the rich people buying these properties, who are these buyers??? Do you honestly think, an average Canadian household making 80K a year can go to the bank and get a mortgage for $5M? It is IMPLIED that there are rich investors in Vancouver buying up real estate. Learn how to read between the lines... geeze....

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 13:02

As i always said, those people who buy multi-million dollar properties are not earning payche ...
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 12:41

I agree 100%. Even those houses less than 1 million (700k - 800k) were all bought by people who don't earn pay cheques. I need to get back to reality

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 13:09

please note that the $56 is for everything else. Do you believe that someone who make 60k should ...
MSN04 發表於 2010-9-28 12:59

wah... i never said making $60K can afford a "luxurious" lifestyle... i only said that person can afford a 500SF condo in downtown Vancouver. And living in a 500SF apartment is HARDLY luxurious....

i don't think making $60K is a lot, and certainly i don't think making $60K a year should buy a luxury car that costs $60K... (but that's my POV)

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 13:13

You got any problem with you brain or sth? that you can only read selectively?
I did not disagree ...
MSN04 發表於 2010-9-28 12:52

Actually, I know at least 2 groups of people who buy those luxurious condos in Vancouver.

Many of these 500K - $1M condo in coal harbour or west end are owned by senior citizens (or just "older" people in general who are retired) who don't want to take care of a house and want to live close to stores and park for proximity.

And also, there are MANY rich parents (from asia/ europe) buy these condos for their kids to stay while they "study" in Vancouver (i know at least a few).

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 13:18

The statistic is already been GIVEN - it is already a FACT that Vancouver overall real estate ...
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 13:02

WOW!!!  OMG!!! did you even go to school to statistic or anything similar?
I never know that you can put some reasoning and imply that as facts.  Because no one can afford it, so it must be rich foreigner????
If you just want to focus on 5M house or anything more than 3 millions.  I would agree that it is most likely the foreigner or local very rich people (there are quite a few rich local people too, if u don't know).
But for average house price??  ok, let's not talk about average b/c that are probably 1000000 of properties that worth more than 5M in Vancouver that will skewed the average.  Let's talk about those supposed-to-be cheap 700k-800k house?  All purchased by rich foreigner too?

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 13:23

wah... i never said making $60K can afford a "luxurious" lifestyle... i only said that person ...
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 13:09

making 60k is already above average...
and I don't mean luxury car (that's why i put a " " there). Getting a cheap cheap car is like $500 with gas and insurance? that is $16.67 per day for a 30-day month.
Based on your logic... with the amount of "nice" cars on the road, the average income stat must be a total lie.

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 13:24

WOW!!! OMG!!! did you even go to school to statistic or anything similar?
I never know that you c ...
MSN04 發表於 2010-9-28 13:18

700-800K are not THAT expensive jeh.... (for single detached houses) I think a couple with decent jobs or a family who runs a small business can afford a house around that price gwa??? I think a lot of LYK here probably live in a house around that price in Burnaby/ Richmond/ Vancouver...

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 13:29

Actually, I know at least 2 groups of people who buy those luxurious condos in Vancouver.

Ma ...
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 13:13

2 groups + a few... that gives you facts and stat to support ur point... interesting.

Very interesting to know that old couple or student with rich mom consume a lot of the 3 bedroom, 3 bathroom condos. B/c those ones that i know usually go for the 500-750k 2 bed and 2 baths

And based on that, are you confirming that downtown is either for single people and very rich people? I would be very disappointed if you start to go another route

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 13:34

本帖最後由大C姐於 2010-9-28 13:36 編輯

making 60k is already above average...
and I don't mean luxury car (that's why i put a " " there) ...
MSN04 發表於 2010-9-28 13:23

The average income stat is perhaps "true" but it really depends on how you interpret it. I think it's skewed by two extreme (super rich and super poor), there are many nice cars because there are many rich people but there are also many homeless people at the same time...

Cheap cheap car can be a second hand car for $5000, it doesn't have to be brand new ($20,000+).

The 60K is perhaps above average, but home owners around the world probably make slightly above average salary. Not to mention, many people buy houses with 2 incomes, not just one.

作者: Look4chrisng 時間: 2010-9-28 13:34

1700 for everthing else

Car/Ins/Gas 500
Phone             50
Cable TV/internet  100
MSP                      50
Gas/Hydro             100

Well, after that you are left with 900/mo on food/entertainment.  Then it is down to 30/day.

Lunch are downtown easily come to 10 ea.  Then you still have to eat dinner/breakfast.  You can easily also save maybe $10 per day.

With that saving rate, Every 150 year, you can even visit Hong Kong.  Hopefully in the meantime, you don't incurr any dental cost/funeral cost etc.

These number is going to get alot worse, since we are in emergencey interest rate environment.

What will Vancouver become when Prime rate is at 5%?  Can anyone do the math?

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 13:38

700-800K are not THAT expensive jeh.... (for single detached houses) I think a couple with d ...
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 13:24

depending on how you define decent?
I have no doubt that the chinese community is doing better in general (support from parents/family... etc.)
But the majority of the people (including a lot of 2nd generation from HK/china) in Vancouver are not that lucky. That is all indicated by the stat. Our average down payment for mortgage is less than 10%. (i think 7% if i remember correctly).

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 13:40

本帖最後由大C姐於 2010-9-28 13:44 編輯

1700 for everthing else

Car/Ins/Gas 500
Phone             50
Cable TV/internet  100
MSP    ...
Look4chrisng 發表於 2010-9-28 13:34

If you live in downtown, do you really NEED to buy a car? (ie, if you choose to buy in downtown, you may as well save some money on transportation, otherwise you can buy elsewhere for cheaper)

and if you're based on my original assumption of a 500SF condo, no one pays $100/ month for hydro... that's a gross exaggeration. (and most places either do not have gas or it's included in management fee)

Again, it's up to you to make your own budget, $1700 is actually quite reasonable to live on in vancouver (excluding cost of accomodation). Without a car, you can already save $500 a month! Nowadays, if you live in downtown you can rent a car very easily through zip car or car co-op for $10/hour if you need to go to ikea or go visit a friend out of the city. Obviously, you can't have EVERYTHING you want on $1700, but you can still live relatively comfortbly.

作者: fibbi 時間: 2010-9-28 13:45

回復 52# Look4chrisng

Most people I know do pack lunch won't eat out. It's too expensive to eat outside in downtown. (also not healthy too)

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 13:47

depending on how you define decent?
I have no doubt that the chinese community is doing better in ...
MSN04 發表於 2010-9-28 13:38

making 50-60K a year is not that crazy... if 2 people make 50K each, that's already 100K a year! i personally don't think it's too extravagant to buy a home within $500,000 to start a small family (either in suburb or a condo in the city)! obviously you can buy something less/ more expensive depending on your growth potential or risk tolerance....

作者: Look4chrisng 時間: 2010-9-28 13:52

回復 54# 大C姐

Yep, you can also live like a monk, just looking at the walls of your condo and meditating during weekends without needing to spend a buck and happier than most people.

But monks still need dental care, clean underwears etc.

作者: fibbi 時間: 2010-9-28 13:52

Making 50-60K a year is not like " a lot" lor...depends on the field I guess. Many people in programming field with a few years experiences get that or more. Some larger company gives 50K to new grad ....

As for housing. In Van East there are 30-40 yrs old house costs 700K ... or can get apartment 400-500K ... not like impossible if support by 2 income la.

作者: 匿名 時間: 2010-9-28 13:53

本帖最後由匿名於 2010-9-28 13:54 編輯

making 50-60K a year is not that crazy... if 2 people make 50K each, that's already 100K a ye ...
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 13:47

from today's RBC house afordability report, household with THAT income can only BARELY afford to buy a "standard townhouse" in Vancouver (sorry I meant "barely", means bank might not approved unless you have a lot of assets, steady jobs and good potential career future

), theyneed a household income of $156,700 to buy a standard 2-storey or $140,500 to buy a detached bungalow. So people with THAT kind of income, buy a condominum or move to Calgary la

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 13:57

回復 Look4chrisng

Most people I know do pack lunch won't eat out. It's too expensive to eat ...
fibbi 發表於 2010-9-28 13:45

exactly!

there are ways to cut down living expenses! many people bike to work and not drive and pay for parking. many people shop in costco or chinatown for cheaper grocery. many people buy second hand furniture and cars, renovate their own homes, etc. I think a lot of people who are still living with their families now are not willing to make sacrifices because they are not used to paying rent/ mortgages, of course ANY money seem a lot! they want the same lifestyle as how their parents would provide for them, which isn't always realistic when you first live by yourself.

a lot of the newer generation do not spend money on cable (certainly not fairchild tv). internet alone isn't expensive and is enough entertainment for a lot of people.

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 14:01

The average income stat is perhaps "true" but it really depends on how you interpret it. I think i ...
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 13:34

You said that super rich people don't earn pay cheques... you sure that there other incomes are taken into account in the stat???  Same for very poor people (those living on the street)?

OMFG... 1st, are u saying that most people (with average or below average) are either homeless or renters??? 2nd, u said that 60k is in a very good position to buy a 500SF home.  Now, we need 2 people to buy a home?  Make up your mind?  2 people.. is hard to live in a 500 SF home.  Need to upgrade to 2 beds, 2 baths, so 500-750k.  (are we still talking about downtown, or u want to change to Mission so it is easier to afford?)

Seriously, I don't know anyone that makes 60k+ driving a 2nd-hand pos.  May be, u know?  But I think you got the point, even if someone makes above average, he/she can afford a very small box, but need to sacrifice other stuffs and live like crap.  That's why Vancouver market is not healthy

作者: 匿名 時間: 2010-9-28 14:04

Seriously, I don't know anyone that makes 60k+ driving a 2nd-hand pos. May be, u know? But I think you got the point, even if someone makes above average, he/she can afford a very small box, but need to sacrifice other stuffs and live like crap. That's why Vancouver market is not healthy
MSN04 發表於 2010-9-28 14:01

don't worry, it will come down and it has already been

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 14:05

If you live in downtown, do you really NEED to buy a car? (ie, if you choose to buy in downtown, y ...
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 13:40

OK... so people living in downtown should just stay there... or take bus/skytrain if wanting to go else where... really? someone making 60k?

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 14:06

回復大C姐

Yep, you can also live like a monk, just looking at the walls of your condo and medita ...
Look4chrisng 發表於 2010-9-28 13:52

What i'm saying is, if you have $1700 to spare, you spend within your budget. You can't always say "oh i NEED a car, i NEED cable TV, i NEED to go out for breakfast lunch and dinner, I NEED money for entertainment..."

Even if you have $7000 to spare, you still can't get everything you want. So rather to say that you can't live on $1700, i think it all depends on personal choices.

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 14:06

回復 Look4chrisng

Most people I know do pack lunch won't eat out. It's too expensive to eat ...
fibbi 發表於 2010-9-28 13:45

Most people I know that are single and living alone (that was the focus that Ms. C brought up) eat out.

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 14:09

making 50-60K a year is not that crazy... if 2 people make 50K each, that's already 100K a ye ...
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 13:47

We were talking about other 700-800k house generally in vancouver. Please don't start going off to 500k. You can always go extreme and claim that people making 200k household can live somewhere 300 miles away from city.

If 100k a year, it is income to price ratio of 7 - 8. It is much higher than the 5 that you pointed out earlier.

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 14:15

Making 50-60K a year is not like " a lot" lor...depends on the field I guess. Many people in program ...
fibbi 發表於 2010-9-28 13:52

yup, u will need both partner to make more than 50k to afford that. Need to wish that neither of one gonna lose the job and the interest rate to stay low forever.

Don't u think it is sad that for a couple to live in a 30-40 yr old house, or a over-priced concrete box if the couple makes more than 100k a year? It is doable, but I just think it is sad.

Do you still want to claim that this is a sustainable market?

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 14:15

You said that super rich people don't earn pay cheques... you sure that there other incomes are ta ...
MSN04 發表於 2010-9-28 14:01

I said 60K is in good position to buy a 500sf bachelor suite.

and a couple with 2 income is in good position to buy a $500,000 home (condo/ house).

I think there are always people who can't afford to buy, we don't live in an ideal world. C'est la vie.

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 14:16

from today's RBC house afordability report, household with THAT income can only BARELY afford to b ...
匿名發表於 2010-9-28 13:53

where is that single detached house and how much sin??

and if you can't afford a house, is it so bad that you have to buy a condo?? in many cases condos are probably more conveniently located (close to sky train/ major bus routes and shopping centres). i don't think you need to be super rich to afford that in Vancouver...

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 14:18

from today's RBC house afordability report, household with THAT income can only BARELY afford to b ...
匿名發表於 2010-9-28 13:53

yes... talking about almost 2 times the average income to live in some sh1t hole in east vancouver. I didn't know that the expectation is that low in vancouver.

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 14:20

yup, u will need both partner to make more than 50k to afford that. Need to wish that neither of ...
MSN04 發表於 2010-9-28 14:15

OK wor... many nice 2 bedroom condo (800SF+) are selling for less than $500K around Vancouver (including downtown).

Many of us (hongers) grew up in concrete boxes, it's not that bad to raise a family in a condo.

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 14:23

I said 60K is in good position to buy a 500sf bachelor suite.

and a couple with 2 income is ...
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 14:15

Based on what you said about limiting budget. I wouldn't say that 60k is in a good position to buy a 500sf box in downtown. When one needs to sacrifice a lot and live on tight budget, do u still call that a good position to buy???

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 14:23

OK... so people living in downtown should just stay there... or take bus/skytrain if wanting to go ...
MSN04 發表於 2010-9-28 14:05

Huh? Are you implying that someone making $60K is too high-class to take public transportation in Vancouver??? hmm....... (not even going to comment on that)

As i said, if you work and live in downtown, you only need a car on the weekend, you can use zip car/ car co-op (if you don't want to take public transportation). i genuinely believe a second hand car (let's say <$10,000) is an option for someone making $60K....

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 14:29

Based on what you said about limiting budget. I wouldn't say that 60k is in a good position to bu ...
MSN04 發表於 2010-9-28 14:23

again, i don't think it's a tight budget... first of all, i dont think 60K is a lot of money (that you can afford a luxurious lifestyle to start with), but i do think $1700 of spare money a month can make a comfortable lifestyle.

if you want more space you can live elsewhere (surrey/ new west) and spend more $$ on transportation, or you can even get a roommate!

if you can't live within a budget, you can't really be happy no matter how you spend your $60K.....

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 14:31

yes... talking about almost 2 times the average income to live in some sh1t hole in east vancouver ...
MSN04 發表於 2010-9-28 14:18

Perhaps you have very high expectation jeh...

but i won't live in east vancouver either... i'd rather live in new west or surrey (at least it's cheaper)

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 14:31

OK wor... many nice 2 bedroom condo (800SF+) are selling for less than $500K around Vancouver ...
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 14:20

500k 2 beds condo... Vancouver, yes! downtown? hmm... very old ones?

800sf in HK is not bad, 800sf in canada.... hmm... i leave it to u.

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 14:33

Huh? Are you implying that someone making $60K is too high-class to take public transportatio ...
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 14:23

No! read above. I am saying that if someone needs to sacrifice or live on tight budget. He/she is not in a good position to buy a 500sf box in downtown.

作者: Look4chrisng 時間: 2010-9-28 14:34

Fibbi: For a 700k house, Can your couple handle a 2% rate increase? ($800/mo). During the 80's Mortgage rate was 18% at one point. 18% mortgage rate is very extreme, but so it 4% 5 yr fixed.

700k in East Van will get you a ghetto house. Plus the ghetto house soon becomes 1M if you factor in the repairs.

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 14:37

500k 2 beds condo... Vancouver, yes! downtown? hmm... very old ones?

800sf in HK is not bad, 80 ...
MSN04 發表於 2010-9-28 14:31

nope, my friend just bought one for $465K on Richards street (built in 2005 i think), aroud 815SF, 2 BR, 2 Bath.

There are quite a few to choose from in downtown actually, it's not as expensive as many people think!

a 800SF apartment in hk with gym+sauna, etc in Central would be A LOT more expensive (that would be truly unaffordable for most people)....

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 14:38

No! read above. I am saying that if someone needs to sacrifice or live on tight budget. He/she i ...
MSN04 發表於 2010-9-28 14:33

you have to live on a "tight" budget no matter what you do with $60K... -_-"

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 14:42

again, i don't think it's a tight budget... first of all, i dont think 60K is a lot of money ...
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 14:29

$1700 is not really spare money... that is only money after housing. There are also other basic needs. Food, medical, phone bills...
On to the comfortable level, even buying an iphone will cost 800 bucks LOL. Starbuck is like $5 everytime. Dine out once a while. Drive a reasonably car. Computer... TV... cable... internet. These things are considered to be essential in a comfortable lifestyle? agree?

Getting a roommate is not possible for a 500sf box, unless u want to head to some other direction.

I agree that people should be able to live with a budget, but is the budget of $1700 after housing on a comfortable level that provides a comfortable lifestyle??

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 14:43

Fibbi: For a 700k house, Can your couple handle a 2% rate increase? ($800/mo). During the 80's Mort ...
Look4chrisng 發表於 2010-9-28 14:34

if you have 700K, you don't have to buy in East Van, you can buy in Burnaby or Coquitlam, in better residential neighbourhoods.

otherwise you can easily afford a condo.

again, your example of interest rate is just one of the things people have to consider before buying a place, it's not about how expensive the properties are.

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 14:44

Perhaps you have very high expectation jeh...

but i won't live in east vancouver either... ...
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 14:31

I just think that people who make higher than the average would have higher expectation...

作者: fibbi 時間: 2010-9-28 14:45

回復 67# MSN04

I don't actually see it as "sad". A 30-40 yrs old with regular maintanance house is still in great condition. It all comes down to personal choice: for same price would u rather own a newer condo (less space) or an older house (larger space).

If one loses job, at least can live on EI for a few month. It may not be good enough but at least can still get some cash. Is the economy that bad for job hunting now? I am not sure, but I think the toughest time has passed. But if people worry about too much for able to pay mortgage or not, I guess that means you are not ready to purchase a property, just rent instead lor....less utility to worry about and no property tax to pay.

Btw, my coworker is single, and he always prepare lunch. In my workplace actually not many people go out for lunch everyday. When I was single, I just cook a bit more dinner and have those left over as lunch.

For dental and medical, most company has some sort of extended health care plan. May not cover 100% but a portion. Even w/o subsidy, for dental check up (just major routine) it's about $60. I don't think it's that unaffordable la.

作者: Look4chrisng 時間: 2010-9-28 14:46

nope, my friend just bought one for $465K on Richards street (built in 2005 i think), aroud 8 ...
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 14:37

Have you tried to run for office? Gordon really needs someone for push for HST in the next 12 months. You be good for the job. I am not kidding. Your reasoning is much better than our Ministry of Finance and all of his staff.

you are good.

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 14:49

$1700 is not really spare money... that is only money after housing. There are also other basic n ...
MSN04 發表於 2010-9-28 14:42

i said you can choose to buy elsewhere (in new west or surrey) for more space and perhaps even get a roommate... not in a 500SF studio of course!

I think iphone is quite extravagant and unncessary.. that's practically one of the MOST expensive phones in the market (i dont' think Vancouver sells Vertu yet). i think a starbucks here and there and dining out can fit into the $1700 budget (perhaps not everyday) but then again, some people are very comfortable with taking transit... so i guess your comfort level is a bit higher than some.

作者: fibbi 時間: 2010-9-28 14:53

回復 78# Look4chrisng

700K in East Van is NOT a ghetto house. My coworker lived there and so as my in-law.
You can certainly find some decent property.

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 14:55

nope, my friend just bought one for $465K on Richards street (built in 2005 i think), aroud 8 ...
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 14:37

you friend just bought when the market starts to soften? wow....
I know there a quite a lot to choose in downtown now, but i wouldn't buy now.

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 14:55

you have to live on a "tight" budget no matter what you do with $60K... -_-"
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 14:38

You are confusing me... so u think 60k is gonna yield a comfortable budget or tight budget?

作者: Look4chrisng 時間: 2010-9-28 14:59

回復 87# fibbi

http://www.mls.ca/propertyDetail ... mp;PidKey=110694619

Do this look ghetto to you?

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 14:59

回復 84# fibbi

That is nice. Good for you.

But one thing... we have not passed the toughest time yet. In fact, it has just begun...

作者: fibbi 時間: 2010-9-28 15:00

回復 81# MSN04

I do think starbucks and iphone are luxury. It's totally not necessity. if you are living on a budget, why would you want to drink startbucks and have iPhone? $3 a day is $90 a month. Without iPhone you can automatically save another $40. (the data plan I mean)
Saving $130 a month = $1500/year already.

想儲＄就唔好有啲 "人有我有" 嘅心態啦。

作者: Look4chrisng 時間: 2010-9-28 15:01

本帖最後由 Look4chrisng 於 2010-9-28 15:03 編輯

http://www.mls.ca/propertyDetail ... 88&PidKey=447423958

both are 1st one with picture if you search MLS for 700K and 1M in Vancouver

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 15:03

Have you tried to run for office? Gordon really needs someone for push for HST in the next 1 ...
Look4chrisng 發表於 2010-9-28 14:46

i honestly think some people exaggerate the situation... okay, if you ask me, of course i think Vancouver is expensive, but is it unaffordable?? i don't think so.

I think a lot of people read these articles/ statistics and freak out! Some people set VERY HIGH expectation on their lifestyles, they want the best products and gadgets on regular/ average salary, that's NOT realistic!

Since when iphone is a must? since when a car is a must (in downtown vancovuer)? since when cable TV is a must? if you can't afford a place to live, you can't afford these entertainment/ luxury goods. People put these other things as piority over their accomodation becuase asian parents ALMOST ALWAYS provide shelter to their kids for as long as they can. That's why many asian kids have this false sense of reality.

FORGET ALL STATISTICS AND NEWSPAPER ARTICLE. If you REALLY cannot afford $500K house/condo, you can still buy a brand new apartment in Surrey for less than $200K!! Is that realy unaffordable?? Do you have to LIVE in city of Vancouver?? But of course, people whine about having to take public transit and being too far and the ghetto neighbourhood while they line up to buy $800 iphone and $5 starbucks frappucino....

if you don't have the money, stop bitching and work harder... otherwise take what you have and make it work!

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 15:07

You are confusing me... so u think 60k is gonna yield a comfortable budget or tight budget?
MSN04 發表於 2010-9-28 14:55

it's a "tight" budget with your spending habits.. but probably very comfortable for many others (myself included)...

if i only have 1700 to spare i wouldn't dare buy a luxury car, i'll just get a 2nd hand japanese car or take public transit... but i'll still be happy with my life, i don't think i would be deprived!

作者: fibbi 時間: 2010-9-28 15:07

回復 90# Look4chrisng

How about this?
http://www.mls.ca/PropertyDetail ... p;PidKey=-362196917

and this?
http://www.mls.ca/PropertyDetail ... p;PidKey=1847306505

There are some ok looking places la...but of course need some searching la.

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 15:09

i said you can choose to buy elsewhere (in new west or surrey) for more space and perhaps eve ...
大C姐發表於 2010-9-28 14:49

Again... buying somewhere else defeat the purpose of what we have been discussing. (The condition is 500sf downtown concrete box with a salary of 60k).

Can a guy also include a gf in the comfortable lifestyle? (of course, u can argue that the guy may receive benefits instead lol)

作者: MSN04 時間: 2010-9-28 15:11

回復 92# fibbi

We were talking about comfortable lifestyle already. Not tight budget... geez...
if not iphone or starbuck, it is gotta be something in a comfortable lifestyle. Unless it is a very boring comfortable lifestyle.

作者: fibbi 時間: 2010-9-28 15:12

回復 91# MSN04

I think that's too 悲觀...
I have friends looking for jobs and get a few interview.
I also heard that company used to stop hiring now rehire...

作者: 大C姐 時間: 2010-9-28 15:15

Again... buying somewhere else defeat the purpose of what we have been discussing. (The condition ...
MSN04 發表於 2010-9-28 15:09

not eveyone has to live in a 500SF box... i agree that's VERY small for anyone to live in for any extended period of time, but even 650SF in downtown isn't THAT expensive (you can find some for less than $400K).

gum i can't budget a gf for you wor... i don't know how much you pay for a "gf".....

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