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作者: Catpiano 時間: 2010-12-9 17:05 標題: Well, I post it for you .. peter .. Lik ...

Several governments have declined invitations to attend Friday's ceremony to award imprisoned Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo the Nobel Peace Prize.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/20 ... -prize-boycott.html

Wow .. China ... big Power!

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-12-9 17:14

回復 1# Catpiano

So are they going to attend the Confusion Peace Award  instead?
As I said many time, no matter how much money the CCP waste in
Europe, they cannot convince the  West Europe countries to boycott
Nobel. What they have been doing is just acting clown to entertain
the world for Christmas. So 200 Billions RMB  to buy attention, well
done. What is their next goal? buy out Iceland, Greece and Ireland so they have their voice in Europe.

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-12-9 17:16

Thank you, CP.

作者: soli 時間: 2010-12-9 17:22

越南迷途知返﹐值得肯定。

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2010-12-9 17:23

Thank you, CP.
Lik 發表於 2010-12-9 17:16

No thx u ... lol

Buy me a bubble tea next time la..

作者: soli 時間: 2010-12-9 17:36

回復 2# somewhereintime

你以為歐洲係世界中心嗎?
活響舊時代既人

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-12-9 17:51

回復 6# soli

Silly comment, the CCP delegates spent 200 billion RMB
in France trying to buy friendship. The Beijing knows that
they cannot rely on the African to support them on big issues.
Only dog would praise and lick the CCP toes and axx

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2010-12-9 18:12

回復 soli

Silly comment, the CCP delegates spent 200 billion RMB
in France trying to bu ...
somewhereintime 發表於 2010-12-10 09:51

大陸就係做d 門面功夫, 當同美國佬講數既時候, d 歐洲人唔同表勢就可以了.
而家世界形勢, 基本上係美國vs.中國, 其他國家就只係陪跑only.

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2010-12-9 18:39

USA vs China??

China has money and people .. USA .. debt ja wor .. (I am not Peter, but that is the fact .. )

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2010-12-9 19:08

USA vs China??

China has money and people .. USA .. debt ja wor .. (I am not Peter, but that is t ...
Catpiano 發表於 2010-12-10 10:39

世界上, 有一樣野比錢更有權力 - 武力!

作者: tiffiant 時間: 2010-12-9 19:23

Several governments have declined invitations to attend Friday's ceremony to award imprisoned Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo the Nobel Peace Prize, the Norwegian Nobel Commission said Tuesday.

In this file photo, a pro-democracy activist holds a picture of Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo. (Kin Cheung/Associated Press)
The committee said China and 18 other countries have decided not to be represented "for various reasons." It noted that number has tripled from six weeks ago.

The countries joining China in its boycott include Russia, Ukraine, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Venezuela, Cuba, Colombia, Tunisia, Iraq, Iran, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Serbia, Pakistan, Egypt, Morocco and the Philippines.

The 58 countries who have embassies in Oslo were invited to attend.

China strongly objected to Liu's win last October and levelled more criticism Tuesday, calling members of the Nobel committee "clowns" who are "interfering in China's judicial affairs."

The 54-year-old writer and academic was jailed in December 2009 to serve an 11-year term for subversion. He was detained just days before the publication of what has turned out to be an explosive political document, Charter 8, which he co-wrote.

Charter 08 calls for an end to one-party rule and the introduction of democratic reforms in China. It was signed, via the internet, by thousands of people, some of them Communist Party officials.

No one is expected to be on hand to accept the award on behalf on Liu. Geir Lundestad, the committee's secretary, said there will be an empty chair and a portrait of Liu on the podium during the ceremony in Oslo.

作者: soli 時間: 2010-12-9 19:35

Charter 08 calls for an end to one-party rule and the introduction of democratic reforms in China. It was signed, via the internet, by thousands of people, some of them Communist Party officials.

單單係o甘既話﹐我都會同情姓劉既。

08憲章可是要將中國依各民族地區分裂然後再聯邦成一國﹐做乜報紙又唔講呢?

姓劉既話過﹐中國需要當西方國家殖民地300年。
分裂中國就係要中國當殖民地既第一步。

對要煽動人分裂祖國既奸徒﹐判11年算輕了。

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2010-12-9 19:42

對要煽動人分裂祖國既奸徒﹐判11年算輕了。
soli 發表於 2010-12-10 11:35

呢d 就係唔同人有唔同既睇法law.
有人覺得波波比人迫害, 又有人覺得波波比死有餘孤.

小弟只係覺得, 連言論自由都冇就真係有d 慘law.

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-12-9 19:43

本帖最後由 somewhereintime 於 2010-12-9 19:45 編輯

What is wrong to end the one-party rule?
isn't that what Mao advocated after Sino-Jap war?
Study a little history before licking your master's axx

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2010-12-9 19:46

What is wrong to end the one-party rule?
isn't that what Mao advocated after Sino-Jap war?Study a l ...
somewhereintime 發表於 2010-12-10 11:43

呢個就係成件事既精結所在!
共產黨講到明係會一黨專政, 而家共產黨o係中國話哂事, so it is wrong to end the one-party rule.

作者: soli 時間: 2010-12-9 19:49

回復 14# somewhereintime
姓劉既一邊話要結束一黨專政﹐但同時話要將中國四分五裂再結成聯邦。

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-12-9 19:51

本帖最後由 somewhereintime 於 2010-12-9 20:01 編輯

There are 50+ states in US,
and they have been doing alright for
200 years. Are they falling apart yet?
I cannot see any problem with that

作者: soli 時間: 2010-12-9 20:02

回復 17# somewhereintime

美國係因為各個state 都團結一起﹐才可以由13個原本互不統屬既弱小州分開始﹐慢慢壯大。
壯大的基礎是團結。

中國各省原本就已經連在一起﹐比聯邦制更團結﹐為甚麼要先分開再聯合?
我支持中國聯邦制﹐但係要聯合其他國家﹐例如日本韓國越南泰國﹐甚至台灣。
結成東亞聯邦共和國對抗美國歐盟。
要中國自己分裂再聯邦既即有兩種人。
無知之徒或中國既敵人。

作者: sheep 時間: 2010-12-9 20:09

回復 somewhereintime

美國係因為各個state 都團結一起﹐才可以由13個原本互不統屬既弱小州分開始﹐慢慢 ...
soli 發表於 2010-12-9 20:02

病入膏肓

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2010-12-9 20:13

病入膏肓
sheep 發表於 2010-12-10 12:09

其實大家都有"執著病". 都好既, 總好過有"牆頭病".

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-12-9 20:52

本帖最後由 somewhereintime 於 2010-12-9 20:57 編輯

Who advocated Hunan Independence Movement, and separated Hunan province from China.

It is all in his books published in China circa 1952.
From the history perspective, the dissolve of USSR is not a bad thing, now Russia is still

a world power without those poor little brothers. Switzland and Germany are both federated

countries, again, they are not falling apart.

作者: soli 時間: 2010-12-9 21:02

毛澤東死左幾十年﹐領導人都換左幾屆﹐LYK裡面念念不忘毛澤東既﹐我想就只有閣下了。

原來閣下認為西藏新疆應該獨立﹐那我也無話好說了。
繼續做你的加拿大人﹐別再想中國了。

作者: MoiRhapsody 時間: 2010-12-9 21:25

因為我地唔想再俾北佬管!

作者: fy789 時間: 2010-12-9 21:50

提示: 作者被禁止或刪除內容自動屏蔽

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-12-9 23:51

回復 22# soli

Then, Jiang ceded territories greater than the entire Manchuria to Yelsin,
the land Stalin returned to China after the Sino Jap war

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-12-10 00:17

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-12-10 00:19 編輯

There are 50+ states in US,
and they have been doing alright for
200 years. Are they falling apart y ...
somewhereintime 發表於 2010-12-9 19:51

There is no need for China to have federalism, since each province is already part of China.
As you know, there are separatists in Xinjiang.
So while democracy is good for China, federalism will weaken China's democratic government.
You can have democratic elected prime minister, provincial premier and city mayors for China, but only fools would indiscriminately introduce federalism to China.

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-12-10 00:45

本帖最後由 somewhereintime 於 2010-12-10 00:48 編輯

Since when does Red China has "democratic government"?

Democratic elected PM, governors, mayors, are we dreaming already?

as a CCP toes sucker here put it: We would have democratic government in China,

another 50 years from now

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-12-10 01:03

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-12-10 01:05 編輯

Since when does Red China has "democratic government"?

Democratic elected PM, governors, mayors, ar ...
somewhereintime 發表於 2010-12-10 00:45

You stupid moron~~

When did I say China is democratic now? Not all democratic countries in the world have federalism.
When China does have democracy, that does not mean there is a need for federalism.

You are such a stupid moron, who can't even read properly?

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-12-10 08:05

本帖最後由 somewhereintime 於 2010-12-10 08:07 編輯

#26
You can have democratic elected prime minister, provincial premier and city mayors for China,

I said federalism is not necessary a bad thing, NOT it is the only and best way,

have any idea how much territories Mao and Jiang gave away to India and Russia?

hit the books.

When China does have democracy
it mean that the CCP is trashed?

Oh you curse the government,

traitor, 50 years maximum security jail

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2010-12-10 08:18

Way way .. Somewhere in time .. don't waste air la..

Spend more time with your kids and grandkids la ma .. no need to argue ...

^_^

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-12-10 08:26

回復 30# Catpiano

My kids grown up now, and I'm semi retired.
I do volunteer works, boiling water on radio,
visiting friends.
Time to have some fun.

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-12-10 08:56

[attach]10535[/attach]

作者: Look4chrisng 時間: 2010-12-10 10:01

毛澤東死左幾十年﹐領導人都換左幾屆﹐LYK裡面念念不忘毛澤東既﹐我想就只有閣下了。

原來閣下認為西藏新 ...
soli 發表於 2010-12-9 21:02

I don't see a problem.

I think it is ok if enough people want independence. Let the people vote to decide their future.

We allow the vote for Quebec's independence. This is the way civilized people to do things. Got it?

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2010-12-10 13:06

本帖最後由 BiscottiGelato 於 2010-12-10 13:10 編輯

China have a bottom line, Liu Xiaobo offended China's bottom line (seperating China), and got imprisoned for it.

The Western world have a bottom line, and people like Julianne Assange is stepping on it, and the Western world is going after him for it.

In both cases we can argue on the basis of Freedom of Speech. In both cases the government acted similarly. To ask for Liu Xiaobo to be freed, then Julianne Assange should get off the hook first.

As a previous poster stated, the Nobel peace prize have been politically charged with the arrow pointing straight towards China. Dalai Lama, Obama and Liu Xiaobo IMO have contributed nothing to peace. Dalai Lama's is a seperatist, aiming to poke at China where it hurts. If that's not an act trying to instigate war, I don't know what is. I'd say he's a war instigator. Obama have done nothing contributing to peace, he is just doing what he has to do as the President of US. Obviously if you compare him to Bush, then he looks like a saint but otherwise he really is just any other US President when it comes to the topic of 'peace'. Liu Xiaobo again is yet another one that is screwing around looking for a fight. Whether his proposed political reform is good or not is beyond the point. But what he did is basically asking China to respond him with trouble, and I don't see how provokation equates to peace. If Liu Xiaobo deserves the peace prize, I'd only call it fair if Julianne Assange gets it for 2011!

The western propganda and hypocracy have been rising as they are throwing in all they've got to curb China's influence. When China is doing something wrong, they blame China for it. When China is doing wrong just like they themselves are, they still call China names. Even when China is doing something right, they still say it's China's fault.

I hope that most LYK is just arguing for argument's sake, and that they can actually peer through the fact from the garbage at the back of their minds. Stuff like 三鹿奶粉事件, sure China handled it really badly. But other things, like expecting China to adopt democracy overnight, expect China to let RMB appreciate by 20% overnight, and applying other western standards, or giving in to western demands, are just plain BS. Anyone who believe in those are just totally brain washed by Western propagandas.

In my view, the Western world is not on that much more of a moral high ground when compared to China. I'd take anything they have to say with a large grain of salt.

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2010-12-10 13:15

LOL
WikiLeaks' Julian Assange 'Should Get Nobel Peace Prize,' Says Russia
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/20 ... ange-_n_794965.html

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-12-10 13:15

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-12-10 13:23 編輯

#26
You can have democratic elected prime minister, provincial premier and city mayors for China,

I ...
somewhereintime 發表於 2010-12-10 08:05

When China does have democracy, that does not mean the CCP will not exist. It is a matter of whether people will vote some of their candidates. The CCP will most likely change their name or split into various parties, representing left, middle, or right of the society. Whichever party they elect, the government will still be controlled by the Chinese people.

Even in Canada, there is communist party but no one vote for them and they have very few candidates.

To implement federalism you have to first split China into various countries and then allow each province to decide whether to join the Chinese federation. This will weaken all the provinces of China as many provinces will have smaller population then Japan, Vietnam, Korea, Phillippines, Indonesia etc. The provinces by themselves cannot compete as effectively against all these other Asian countries.

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2010-12-10 13:20

Someone do get it:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/pointofvi ... -a-nobel-prize.html
"Ocomar tweeted that Assange is to the U.S. what jailed democratic activist Liu Xiaobo is to China. "[Assange] should be awarded the Nobel Prize too or backed by Amnesty International."

作者: sheep 時間: 2010-12-10 13:23

When China does have democracy, that does not mean the CCP will not exist. It is a matter of wheth ...
peter236 發表於 2010-12-10 13:15

上海幫
湖南幫
江系
鄧系
胡系
而家都係多黨制

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-12-10 13:24

上海幫
湖南幫
江系
鄧系
胡系
而家都係多黨制
sheep 發表於 2010-12-10 13:23

Even the NDP and Liberal parties of BC have several factions in each.

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-12-10 13:25

China have a bottom line, Liu Xiaobo offended China's bottom line (seperating China), and got imprisoned for it.

The Western world have a bottom line, and people like Julianne Assange is stepping on it, and the Western world is going after him for it.

In both cases we can argue on the basis of Freedom of Speech. In both cases the government acted similarly. To ask for Liu Xiaobo to be freed, then Julianne Assange should get off the hook first.
BiscottiGelato 發表於 2010-12-10 13:06

You are quite correct that the 2 cases are similar in that both persons crossed the bottom lines of the respective countries and they are getting hunted down for it. However, you have to ask yourself this -- comparatively speaking, how high are the bottom lines in China and in the US? Specifically, the constitutions of both China and the US guarantees freedom of speech . In Liu Xiaobo's case, none of the things he did were in violation of the Chinese constitution, but he was deemed by the Party (and subsequently the courts) to have broken the law right from the start, so he never would have had a chance in court. In Assange's case, lawyers and constitution specialists have repeatedly written that the US courts have a very slim chance of charging Assange with anything that'll stick since he can easily use the First Amendment and freedom of the press to defend for himself.
Also, you need to get your facts straight. Dalai Lama may have supported Tibet separatism in the past, but he has long been only fighting for the self-governance of Tibet (大西藏區自治，但唔係要搞藏獨). Obama is calling back the troops from Afghanistan.

Every country will certainly act in their own national interest, and there is nothing wrong with that. But when you commit atrocities at basic human rights level as Grandfather has repeatedly been doing, you deserve to get slammed internationally.

-Lik

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-12-10 13:38

回復 36# peter236

Have you ever seen it happened in USA, Germany and Switzland?
A government that does not respect its own constitution should be

trashed by its citizen. unfortunately the people in China do not have

the right to do so, even talking about it would be convicted.

I never agree with the Yankee's political policy, I stand by the universal

value in term of democracy and human right, no different from the

general opinion of average HKer. Do you read the HK papers at all?

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2010-12-10 13:43

本帖最後由 BiscottiGelato 於 2010-12-10 13:49 編輯

You are quite correct that the 2 cases are similar in that both persons crossed the bottom lines of ...
Lik 發表於 2010-12-10 13:25

Exactly, Assange probably can get away legally. But it seems that the US is trying to work their diplomatic muscles to bend the law. It's not that different from China really. Besides, so far it's just all those dumb-ass politician in the states that doing the talking. The ones actually decides on how to counter Assange definately works behind the scene, maybe even Obama won't know about it... That's exactly why we need something like WikiLeak to know how things works behind the scene in the US, and how undemocratic their processes are.

Dalai Lama have been involved in seperatism in the past, and he's still eligible for NPP? Obama is pulling troops from Afghan and you call that a 'peace effort'? I call that a debt reduction effort. Anyone elected for the current term as US President would do that. Heck Harper have been trying to pull troops all the time too, why don't we give him a NPP too?

On the subject of Liberty and Human Rights, China is still in Grade 3 Elementary School while the Western World is 3rd year University. The Western World slams China for not being able to do Algebra when they fail Calculus themselves. China obviously have much to improve, they are still classified as a developing country afterall. I'm not saying China should get away with everything because of this, but the way China is slammed by Western media is definately politically charged or greatly influenced by prior propganda.

With that perspective in place, I'd say the Western World disappoints me much more so as a University student than China as an Elementary student. If China is 2 steps forward, 1 step back, then the Western World is doing 2 steps back for each step forward... The way the Western values are eroding from Western societies concerns me much more than the slow progress that China is making every day. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be where international media attention is focusing on, with possible reasons stated prior (government influence and propaganda).

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2010-12-10 13:52

本帖最後由 BiscottiGelato 於 2010-12-10 13:53 編輯

回復 peter236

Have you ever seen it happened in USA, Germany and Switzland?
A government that doe ...
somewhereintime 發表於 2010-12-10 13:38

I agree China have much room to improve. But from my limited observatoin, China is improving, albeit at a snail pace. After all, China have been delayed by 100 years by the very foreign interests that is criticizing it today.

As I said in the post above. I'd think much more of our attention is deserved in protecting the Western values that we thought we have, but is quickly slipping away, from the Western society that we are living in today (unless you are posting from Asia).

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-12-10 14:02

I have been observing China for 40+ years.
All I can think of is that:
the Russia has successful ditch the socialism,
and remain a great power, both politically and
economically. Even the US cannot blackmail the polar bear.Why China has to wait for another
50 years? after the CCP has wasted 61 years

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-12-10 14:07

Progress in economy? no doubt.

Political reform and democracy in China?

Worse than 1989

作者: soli 時間: 2010-12-10 17:32

I don't see a problem.

I think it is ok if enough people want independence. Let the people vote ...
Look4chrisng 發表於 2010-12-10 10:01

是嗎? 那麼加拿大自1999年開始就文明倒退了?
平時多看新聞﹐關心下自己國家既事。

作者: soli 時間: 2010-12-10 17:34

回復 25# somewhereintime
一係你就返大陸住﹐如果唔係你做你既加拿大人﹐中國D野你理o甘多做乜?

作者: soli 時間: 2010-12-10 17:37

Dalai Lama have been involved in seperatism in the past, and he's still eligible for NPP?

力仔就係o甘痴線﹐我諗有時佢自己都唔知自己講緊乜。
殺人犯放下屠刀﹐可以立地成佛不特止﹐仲可以囉和平獎~

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-12-10 17:44

以無知為榮

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-12-10 17:54

殺人犯放下屠刀﹐可以立地成佛不特止﹐
仲可以做國家領導人

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-12-10 18:18

You are quite correct that the 2 cases are similar in that both persons crossed the bottom lines of ...
Lik 發表於 2010-12-10 13:25

Mr Lik, you need to learn more about Tibet. Dalai Lama 大西藏區自治, clearly includes parts of Yunnan, Qinghai and Guizhou province. He is way more ambitious then you think. Once you give him autonomous region, he will then ask for total independence.

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-12-10 18:22

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-12-10 18:28 編輯

回復 peter236

Have you ever seen it happened in USA, Germany and Switzland?
A government that doe ...
somewhereintime 發表於 2010-12-10 13:38

You are such a moron that does not even know what is being discussed here.
All of us support democracy for China, but not necessarily federalism.

I agree with you on democracy, but China does not necessarily need federalism. Since a weakened Chinese central government will reduce the levarage of China when dealing with the US. Not all democratic countries in the world are federal.

Which province will take back Diaoyu Islands? Fujian province? Is Fujian province alone strong enough to deal with Japan?

How about Spratlys islands? Hainan province? Is Hainan province strong enough to deal with Vietnam and Phillippines which have much larger population?

When China does have democracy, that does not mean the CCP will not exist. It is a matter of whether people will vote some of their candidates. The CCP will most likely change their name or split into various parties, representing left, middle, or right of the society. Whichever party they elect, the government will still be controlled by the Chinese people.

Even in Canada, there is communist party but no one votes for them and they have very few candidates.

To implement federalism you have to first split China into various countries and then allow each province to decide whether to join the Chinese federation. This will weaken all the provinces of China as many provinces will have smaller population then Japan, Vietnam, Korea, Phillippines, Indonesia etc. The provinces by themselves do not have the financial power and levarage to compete as effectively against all these other Asian countries.

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-12-10 22:22

回復 22# soli

  "毛澤東死左幾十年﹐領導人都換左幾屆﹐ "

  Who's picture is printed on the RMB banknotes?
  Deng? Jiang or Hu??? China is still haunted by Mao,
  for years to come

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-12-10 22:29

回復 52# peter236

I don't even want to argue with you,
when did I ever say that China needed to become federalism?
I said federalism is not a bad system, but never say it works for China.
Then............................
try to learn how to read, then to comprehend before name calling

作者: Lik 時間: 2010-12-10 22:44

On the subject of Liberty and Human Rights, China is still in Grade 3 Elementary School while the Western World is 3rd year University. The Western World slams China for not being able to do Algebra when they fail Calculus themselves. China obviously have much to improve, they are still classified as a developing country afterall. I'm not saying China should get away with everything because of this, but the way China is slammed by Western media is definately politically charged or greatly influenced by prior propganda.
BiscottiGelato 發表於 2010-12-10 13:43

China supporters always use this as their excuse to cut China some slack on their human rights disasters. But they're forgetting the fact that the analogy falls short in the sense that on the international stage, everybody is an adult that needs to act responsibly. If they fail to do so, they better be ready to face any sort of criticism that comes their way, regardless of whether that criticism actually comes or not. Thus, the analogy should really be that China is an adult with a grade 3 IQ. Besides, while basic human rights issues may not be 1+1=2 (survival would be that), they would more or less be equivalent to 2x2=4.

-Lik

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-12-10 23:24

本帖最後由 somewhereintime 於 2010-12-10 23:26 編輯

I do not blindly follow the western media,
I refer to the general opinion of the  average HKers,
My sisters and many relatives live in Hong Kong,
along with friends. If 90+% of HK scholars feel that China isdoing wrong, I tend to accept the  idea.
I think the CCP supporters have given in too much and too lenient
to their masters, almost like during the feudal age where the rulers are sacred.
To me, they are merely public servants and nothing superior to
the common people.
They do not even respect the constitution they written.
They can frame LXB, but under what ground they house-arrest his wife???
Tell me,  suckers

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-12-11 03:45

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2010-12-11 03:46 編輯

回復 peter236

I don't even want to argue with you,
when did I ever say that China needed to becom ...
somewhereintime 發表於 2010-12-10 22:29

I was just talking to you as a friend. It was not intended as an argument at all. I was just saying beware of western powers trying to use federalism to weaken China by divide-and-conquer.

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2010-12-11 09:16

回復  soli

  "毛澤東死左幾十年﹐領導人都換左幾屆﹐ "

  Who's picture is printed on the RMB bankn ...
somewhereintime 發表於 2010-12-10 22:22

Ha Ha .. this is a good one ...

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2010-12-11 13:51

China supporters always use this as their excuse to cut China some slack on their human rights disa ...
Lik 發表於 2010-12-10 22:44

The international expectation is double standard. They suppressed China for 100+ years and they expect China to be measured by the same ruler as western societies are? What hypocrite.

Obviously I'd love that the entire China have the living standard of Norway. To up hold Civil Liberty with the highest regard (even US/Canada can't do that based on all those police power trips). To expect so and criticize based on that is simply dreaming. Any person or persons in power will always try to preserve the status quo. Just like US in going after Julian Assange. China is all the same. And with their political system it will take it even longer for change to occur unless there's an economic, political or social collapse. I am not trying to buy China any excuses. I am merely being realistic. The reality is China as a whole is moving towards the right way, but at a snail pace. Western society is on a decline and trying to stop China at all costs, including using all sorts of nasty propaganda. Shame on the hypocrites.

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-12-11 14:03

Sounds like from Xinhua News agency's standard script.
I cannot speak for others, but I never say anything to defend the Western's wrongdoing
in history and present. Just focus on what is happening in China,
it is so sad that the CCP is so insecured and naive,
so fear of its own people.

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2010-12-11 14:05

本帖最後由 BiscottiGelato 於 2010-12-11 14:07 編輯

I do not blindly follow the western media,
I refer to the general opinion of the average HKers,
My ...
somewhereintime 發表於 2010-12-10 23:24

I don't really care about what the popular opinion is, in HK in China with-in CCP within the Western media, I don't give a crap. I only care about opinion pieces that is based on fact, makes sense and shed me insight. Try to formulate your own opinion based on fact, not what your friends, relatives or the HK scholars are thinking.

Obviously CCP is not the greatest thing around. But they are there and they are there to stay. They are a centralized power and centralized power have even more power to preserve the status quo. It's time to be realistic and know what can be expected of them and what kind of change can be realistically instigated.

I agree the fiasco they are doing doesn't buy anyone any votes. Putting LXB's wife under house arrest really doesn't do anyone good but buy them further unpopular sentiments. I tho understand why they want to go into great length to censor LXB's NPP, as they really don't want people to associate separatism ideology to anything glorious. If any civil liberty is being stomped on, I don't think they give a crap and any screaming and yelling on LYK is just a waste a breath. It isn't the first time and won't be the last time and there's nth that anyone can do about it. (they can't even do much for the 36 baby formula guy. You want something to be done about a political dissident and his wife?)

You'd like to think that government officials from the President down to your average law enforcement officers are just public servants, and they are no more superior to the regular Joe. I'd like to think so too, in fact I like to think of them as my subordinate cuz I pay a ton of their salary. Unfortunately the thinking is not reciprocated. They definitely don't think that way at all. In fact, they do actually have a lot more power as afforded by the bureaucracy. This is the case for all Western 'civilized' society. More so for a non-democratic society like China. Expecting so is just kidding yourself.

Calling people names like 'suckers' degrade you to the like of Lik... Please don't do that cuz it washes your credibility down the drain. Thanks.

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-12-11 14:24

本帖最後由 somewhereintime 於 2010-12-11 14:37 編輯

"Suckers" is a common term I use often at work,
even in the public and no one seem to feel offense.
It simply means people obsessed  with certain idea, merchandises alike.
I'm not involved in politics, have nothing to do with China whatsoever.
I pour out my heart content  and give morale support to Liu,
as a person deeply immersed in Chinese civilization.
There is no recorded incident in the 5000 years human  history,
that a single regime  killed so many its own citizen  in its first 20 years
in powers, much more than the Jap and KMT combined; and millionsof  loyal communists  executed by their comrades.
And can you answer my question: is it true that the CCP keep breaking its
own promises? violating its own law?
How can you expect other to abide the law if you trash it yourself?

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-12-11 14:26

本帖最後由 somewhereintime 於 2010-12-11 14:31 編輯

Please don't tell me that it is all the Western's propagandas,
I study much more articles from HK than those from the USA,
my comment:

the spirit of Mao still haunting China,
for years to come.

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-12-11 14:43

涉嫌企圖顛覆國家罪名，分明莫須有

we learn it from Chinese history

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2010-12-12 01:34

"Suckers" is a common term I use often at work,
even in the public and no one seem to feel offense. ...
somewhereintime 發表於 2010-12-11 14:24

Why do you ask me? CCP is a piece of sh_t, violate their own laws, break their own promises. I totally agree. This is because they are a centralized power that does not need to answer to their people. I'd say tho that if you are in the same position of power, u'd do exactly the same. One'd wish that they will change for the better. But it's unrealistic to expect them to change over night. And no one man's power can do this change either. The change will take time. It's just a waste of breath to expect the impossible.

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2010-12-12 01:35

Please don't tell me that it is all the Western's propagandas,
I study much more articles from HK th ...
somewhereintime 發表於 2010-12-11 14:26

I never said it's Western Propaganda every time. I'm just saying this is clearly Western propaganda this time.

The Western world tho, do dish out more propaganda than you'd think. And it seems they are doing it more and more often as China's influence grows.

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-12-12 07:37

本帖最後由 somewhereintime 於 2010-12-12 07:41 編輯

回復 65# BiscottiGelato

A government will get rotten if  it is given infinite power and
they can stay on power as long as they wish.
Surely it is useless for anyone, within or outside China to have
different opinion against CCP. It is based on the conscience to point out mistake and hope they wound learn, even not willing to correct.
Why most people were so scare to provoke the CCP? and put forth all their
faith that the CCP would  remorse and  care about the well being of average
citizen. Well, keep dreaming.
The CCP is going to expand, and rotten, until it burst. Why the high officials
send their  children oversea and obtain foreign passports, stash  billions of US
in Swiss bank account?  they have no confident in their country and try to exile
rich once they  extract  enough money from their position.
I  admire Dr. Sun's foresight  to establish an auditor council  to  monitor all the
government's manouvres.

   姑息養奸

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