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標題: 老牌酒家撐不住 [打印本頁]

作者: habitrailspace 時間: 2010-12-23 10:57 標題: 老牌酒家撐不住

老牌酒家撐不住

[2010-12-23]

圖文：本報記者徐嘉銘

位於溫東維多利亞街（Victoria Dr.）的老字號金天鵝酒家，將於明年1月17日易手，酒家何姓東主無奈表示，統一銷售稅（HST）讓酒家生意大跌，不得不讓他選擇退出。
該酒家東主周三坦承，HST是12%，顧客在吃完付賬時，除了HST 12%之外，還要付10%的小費，出來用餐的意願就會減弱。
他說，因為HST直接影響生意，不得不賣盤，雖然遺憾，也沒辦法。他又指出，如果HST降低稅率或甚至取消的話，不排除會考慮東山再起。
金天鵝酒家曾於2007年獲溫哥華最佳酒家榮譽，而今要易手，令何老闆不勝唏噓。
另外，位於溫市固蘭湖街（Granville St.）的太子海鮮酒家已於上周三易手，經過簡單裝修，改名為西南海鮮酒家，在本周二開張。該酒家一職員周三表示，他不能代老闆接受訪問，但相信老闆有絕對信心，才敢接手經營，逆市而上。

作者: habitrailspace 時間: 2010-12-23 11:09

do you feel the pinch?

作者: shutterbug 時間: 2010-12-23 12:34

I saw many restaurants, used to be full with waiting list, now barely full during weekends, big big problem!

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2010-12-23 12:43

Um .. but H S T .. is just 6 or 7% different ja wor ..

Most rest .. with price increase more then that la..

And tax is tax .. say they dont' increase price for just 1 yr, already cover that 6/7% la...

I guess nothing to do with HST gei ..

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-12-23 12:56

本帖最後由 lo_pak 於 2010-12-23 12:59 編輯

回復 4# Catpiano

In the old days, people used to pay cash without paying the HST. Right now, no way...

The Chinese restaurants are a bit better because they are cheap (comparatively) anyway, for those Cactus/KEG/Boathouse, it's a big hit... The long lineup is gone for regular weekend....

作者: masterbear 時間: 2010-12-23 12:58

Net income is getting less and less..... property tax will goes up, hydro had already applied for increase rate, misc. all applied more tax on top! More restaurant will be closed down really soon or change owner after the New Year!!

作者: kingkong123 時間: 2010-12-23 14:49

金宝尔害人不浅，自己拍拍罗友就走人，真系贱种

作者: Prelude 時間: 2010-12-23 15:12

Hst is 6% increase, but it decrease customers more than 6%, that's the problem
On top of that, food cost has been increased like crazy for the last 2 years, many items are more than double from 2 years ago. Property tax keeps on increasing as well.

So, summary: Less customers + insanely increased food cost + never stop increasing property tax = leave the industry.

作者: Prelude 時間: 2010-12-23 15:15

Um .. but H S T .. is just 6 or 7% different ja wor ..

Most rest .. with price increase more the ...
Catpiano 發表於 2010-12-23 12:43

The problem is the food cost increased more than 20% per year now, and you suggest restaurants not to change price? In fact, many restaurants haven't increased the price for the last 5 years already.

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-12-23 16:53

回復 Catpiano

In the old days, people used to pay cash without paying the HST. Right now, no way. ...
lo_pak 發表於 2010-12-23 12:56

Chinese restaurants are more expensive than Japanese restaurants.

作者: fibbi 時間: 2010-12-23 16:56

If the HST doesn't apply on Meal...I'll vote for it...other increase is not as relevant to our daily life..

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2010-12-23 19:27

How is this a bad thing? In the past, even if you had money, you had to line up with all those people. Now, if you can afford, there's no line-up anymore. Isn't it great? I wouldn't mind a few % increase if I don't need to waste an hour outside.

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2010-12-23 19:28

Net income is getting less and less..... property tax will goes up, hydro had already applied for in ...
masterbear 發表於 2010/12/23 12:58

that just means there shouldn't be so many restaurants in the first place

it's healthy to eat at home

作者: fibbi 時間: 2010-12-23 22:30

回復 12# 快樂牛郎

The point is "if you can afford"....
not many people are as fortunate as you to be able to afford outside meal any time..

Yeah...cooking @ house is healthy, but what if I get off 9pm everyday and no time+energy to cook...

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-12-23 22:32

回復快樂牛郎

The point is "if you can afford"....
not many people are as fortunate as you t ...
fibbi 發表於 2010-12-23 22:30

You are working many hours and make a lot of money.

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2010-12-23 22:36

Yeah...cooking @ house is healthy, but what if I get off 9pm everyday and no time+energy to cook..
not many people are as fortunate as you t ...
fibbi 發表於 2010/12/23 22:30

But there are still so many affordable take-outs in Vancouver. Compared to China, food is such a small % of expenses here, so I don't think people need to whine about it. And think about it, whenever you see a long line-up, it's basic economics that the prices are way too cheap.

作者: fibbi 時間: 2010-12-23 22:45

回復 16# 快樂牛郎

Affordable take out means....MacDonald??
Also compare to HK, dine out is always cheaper there. Dunno about China.

A sudden increase of 7% is really a lot.
Did I dine out less? Yes, but sometimes I have to as I worked late.

作者: fibbi 時間: 2010-12-23 22:45

回復 15# peter236

You are quite funny, work long hour doesn't mean I got OT pay. And please nothing personal here. Please stay on dine out topic.

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2010-12-23 23:03

回復快樂牛郎

Affordable take out means....MacDonald??
Also compare to HK, dine out is alway ...
fibbi 發表於 2010/12/23 22:45

umm...there are a lot of places around metrotown, in richmond or anywhere that you can pick up a combo dinner for $10. Unless you think that's too expensive..............

and assume you spend $400 on dine out each month
7% is $28
so it's an extra $300 a year
it's quite a bit of money, but it's not a disaster
you can easily save that much by not buying another handbag or cellphone

and when I said food is more expensive in China, I didn't mean in absolute terms. I meant it as a % of income. People can spend 30% of their income on food there. But here? maybe 5%-10%?

作者: fibbi 時間: 2010-12-23 23:18

回復 19# 快樂牛郎

yeah...I can get combo dinner from food court < $10, but they don't open after 9pm...
Most food court closed 7....I guess another thing is that there's nothing to "offset" this cost? 7% increase in this and then I don't get merely a fraction of pay increase? Yeah..u can always say further education, get a better job etc...in reality...it's not as easy though...

作者: fm9610 時間: 2010-12-23 23:24

回復 19# 快樂牛郎

Saw news that HK food prices are also rising like crazy as well. Can any LYK confirm it?

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2010-12-23 23:49

回復快樂牛郎

yeah...I can get combo dinner from food court < $10, but they don't open after ...
fibbi 發表於 2010/12/23 23:18

then maybe you could've got them the day before or at lunch.
I think there are many ways to solve the problem

and i guess what I am saying is that people here in canada are already having a good life relatively. So you either work hard to move to something better or just appreciate what you havae

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2010-12-23 23:50

回復快樂牛郎

Saw news that HK food prices are also rising like crazy as well. Can any LYK c ...
fm9610 發表於 2010/12/23 23:24

funny how some ppl here cherish "democracy" like god but everybody is suffering from one dictator right now - Ben Bernanke

作者: fibbi 時間: 2010-12-24 00:03

回復 22# 快樂牛郎

Of course...we (as Canadian) have to get used to the high tax here and there...Increasing 2 or 3% is more bearable lor... just suddenly 7%....psychologically...hard to swallow that fact...

And of course...I'm just whinning here a bit...but I don't think I'm the only one... look at the restaurants closed since HST...

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2010-12-24 00:08

回復快樂牛郎

Of course...we (as Canadian) have to get used to the high tax here and there.. ...
fibbi 發表於 2010/12/24 00:03

it's 7% IF you eat out
not 7% on your total income
would you prefer a 7% increase on food or 3% increase on ur total income?

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2010-12-24 00:09

look at the restaurants closed since HST...

but this particular restaurant changed hands, that means the new owner thinks there will be business

and golden swan has been selling their business for a long time, way before HST

作者: fibbi 時間: 2010-12-24 00:28

本帖最後由 fibbi 於 2010-12-24 00:32 編輯

回復 26# 快樂牛郎

Not just Golden Swan...William Tell also going to close...I can't say they closed because of HST...but still... I love their food... sigh...

作者: fibbi 時間: 2010-12-24 00:32

回復 25# 快樂牛郎

say avg income for individual $50K (just example), 3% pay increase = $1500 ......
after tax..it's like $800 pay increase per year...

7% in food (from your previous example $400 eat out budget...7% on $400=$28 a month, 336 a year)....almost eat up half of the pay increase... is that a lot? I think so lor..

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-12-24 06:54

I eat out (not necessary fine dining) quite often,
but HST doesn't bother me much.
For a typical Caucasian, A dinner at any upscale restaurant, food and wine
$70-100 per person, 15-25% tip, parking and baby-sitting
expenses, HST is not that significant.
For average working class, they can opt for less expensive places to save on
the lump some, or dine out less.
Dining out is not necessity , it is more of a luxary, if you take your date out for
New year eve or Valentine dinner, you don't care so much.
For myself? dining out is part of my line of work

作者: sheep 時間: 2010-12-24 08:40

After listening to a talk show and those small business owner make a point that HST really hurts them.

It is the HST on those perishable items, they have to pay the tax in advance and claim it back after the sale. not like the old days you collect the GST for the Govrt. after the sale and get a adm fee back. So you buy $100 goods for sale and sold only $50 and the rest is going to write off. Then, the tax on the $50 left goods is absorb by the business owner.

So, it is not only about less customers, it is also the rise in operation cost , not quite like the Govrt say you save adm cost

作者: chunsh 時間: 2010-12-24 09:00

Chinese restaurants are more expensive than Japanese restaurants.
peter236 發表於 2010-12-23 16:53

Chinese restaurants are more expensive than those Japanese restaurants that are owned by non-Japanese with poor quality.

作者: masterbear 時間: 2010-12-24 11:02

After listening to a talk show and those small business owner make a point that HST really hurts the ...
sheep 發表於 2010-12-24 08:40

this stubid system is the most rediculous in the world......again can create job positions? why makes things so complicated all the time?

作者: somewhereintime 時間: 2010-12-24 11:09

回復 31# chunsh

Very well said

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2010-12-24 18:48

this stubid system is the most rediculous in the world......again can create job positions? why mak ...
masterbear 發表於 2010/12/24 11:02

the economy in BC is too hot
time to cool it down

作者: peter236 時間: 2010-12-24 23:13

Chinese restaurants are more expensive than those Japanese restaurants that are owned by non-Japa ...
chunsh 發表於 2010-12-24 09:00

High class Chinese restaurants are more expensive than high class Japanese restaurants. Japanese restaurants are in general lower class, even those owned by the Japanese. They serve serve you uncooked raw fish and pretend to be high class.

作者: chunsh 時間: 2010-12-25 07:47

Japanese restaurants are in general lower class, even those owned by the

lower class??? what??? o_O|||

They serve serve you uncooked raw fish and pretend to be high class.

if it is that easy, how come those non-jap owned restaurants cannot serve u the same good quality "raw fish"...........well, its ok, u have your own world.

作者: sheep 時間: 2010-12-25 07:52

High class Chinese restaurants are more expensive than high class Japanese restaurants. Japanese r ...
peter236 發表於 2010-12-24 23:13

鮑魚
中菜至矜貴食材
係日本吉品

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-12-25 08:56

本帖最後由 lo_pak 於 2010-12-25 09:10 編輯

回復 30# sheep

Your example is confused. I believe in that case business can claim that back without the issue that you have mentioned... For goods that have to pay PST in the old days, no difference; For goods & service that don't need to pay PST previously, yes, you have to pay more in advance, but still, you can claim that back from the gov't. It's more like a cash flow problem instead because I know some small business sometime use up the tax portion as their normal cash flow running daily operation, which is not appropriate and unwise...

I just want to be clear and fair in this discussion, if you think I'm wrong you can point that out... Thanks!

HST/GST are basically tax neutual for business, it only affects terminal consumers.

作者: sheep 時間: 2010-12-25 09:12

Say you buy flowers to sell and you pay in advance the HST in full.
Then, you only sold half of your inventory and the rest die and write off.
You then cannot get back the 50% HST you paid in advance cause there is no transaction.
Or, you can say the florist had add all expense in the sales price and that is another issue.

作者: 老友四號 時間: 2010-12-25 19:12

妖！嘥氣兼BS；明明係揾夠唔想再做卻賴HST,

唔通接手嗰個唔使俾HST咩！？咁人哋又做。

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-12-25 21:13

回復 39# sheep

Your case study, assuming the cost of flowers (cost of goods sold) = $100, and you can only sell the goods for $50

Case 1: In the old days, assuming you need only pay GST @ 5.0%,

Purchasing: $100 x 1.05 = $100 (cost) + $5.0 (Tax Paid) = $105.0
Selling: $50 x 1.05 = $50 (price) + $2.5 (Tax Received) = $52.50
Net: $50 (worth of goods left on hand) + $2.5 (Tax redeemable back from gov't) = $52.50

Case 2: Nowadays, assuming you need to pay HST @ 12.0%
Purchasing: $100 x 1.12 = $100(cost) + $12.0 (Tax Paid) = $112.0
Selling: $50 x 1.12 = $50 (price) + $6.0 (Tax Received) = $56.0
Net: $50 (worth of goods left on hand) + $6.0 (Tax redeemable back from gov't) = $56.00

I just can't get what you want to mention in your post...

作者: Tinon 時間: 2010-12-25 21:42

提示: 作者被禁止或刪除內容自動屏蔽

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-12-25 21:54

本帖最後由 lo_pak 於 2010-12-25 21:56 編輯

回復 42# Tinon

No, that $6.0 is redeemable... If the worth of remaining good is going to write off, it's the same in the old days as it is now.

作者: sheep 時間: 2010-12-25 22:17

回復 41# lo_pak

以前代收GST
收一蚊繳一蚊
重有手續費收
今日要先繳
賣唔出嘅就大婆等
我諗佢哋係咁意思

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-12-25 22:28

本帖最後由 lo_pak 於 2010-12-25 22:33 編輯

回復 44# sheep

Admin fee is valid for PST, not GST I think...
And, for GST/HST reporting, you can choose between once a year, once a quarter, or even once a month. The HST refund should be received promptly.

作者: sheep 時間: 2010-12-25 22:31

開舖頭嘅
講野啦
唔該
好混亂呀
咁支唔支持去廢咗佢呢？

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-12-25 23:02

本帖最後由 lo_pak 於 2010-12-25 23:09 編輯

回復 46# sheep

The biggest hit of HST goes to the servicing sector, which needs only collect GST (5%) in the old days but HST (12%) for now. It's not because they "finally" have to pay more tax, but rather, it's their customers (the terminal consumer, which is ultimately, the general public).

In your example of flowers, it's more likely because the promotion of HST, the customers (the terminal consumer) are less willing to purchase the flower more frequently. It turns out that there is an "increasing chance" for the $50.00 worth of unsold goods to be written off.

After having the HST for almost half a year in BC, in my observation as being a customer (the terminal consumer), for most goods that you have to pay PST and GST in the past, there's no difference as it is now. But, for servicing business like banking, accounting, legals, dining restaurants, sales agents, etc., as "customer" we will have to pay more tax. But for the business themselves, it's still tax neutual. As a general public, how usual do you use those services other than banking and dining out?

In addition, for real estates that worth more than $500-$600K (can't remember correct number), there will be a difference too.

作者: elan7e 時間: 2010-12-25 23:05

HST在日常生活中其實實質影响是比我們的想象中少，因不是所有消費都要比HST，但影响還是存在。心理影响的效果繼而引發連銷反麼就非常和深遠，現在根本各行各業都受影响。

為什么這個政府只顧及大商家利益，我們小市民怎樣生存？

加稅可以刺激經濟，無論政府解釋多少次都不明白，不認同。

如果有ICAC，會不會研究有否須要深入研究？

作者: lo_pak 時間: 2010-12-25 23:25

本帖最後由 lo_pak 於 2010-12-25 23:54 編輯

回復 48# elan7e

It all depends on how much you earn. Remember there is a HST refund for people whose earning is at the 1st tax bracket. The refund money should roughly balance what you will pay, or a bit more. However, if you are at the 2nd level or higher, you will be suffered...

According to the idea of HST, it benefits business in the way that you can claim back more tax on equipment renewal or other hardware upgrade, which you cannot do in the old days. It may have bigger effects on big business but certainly not the small one. How often will a small business renew their machines if they are still losing money or tight on budget?? And, for the big companies, how can the gov't "estimate" the tax business save will turn out to hire more workers?? It's more like just a "wish"...

All in all, in conclusion:

1) for companies making profits, they are winners as it seems like there's a tax credit gov't will award you if you renew your machines, which increase your profitibility.
2) for small companies making no profits and will not upgrade their hardware, sorry, there's no difference and you are wasting the "credit".
3) for restauants, obviously it's a big hit because it decreases consumers' incentive to spend.
4) as a customer/general public, you have to pay more (but not too much) on your daily expenditure.

On the HST topic, if you ask me if I support the current HST or not, I will say "No".
If you ask me if the HST is lowered to 10%, I will say "Yes". Reason - Not contradicting, rather than wasting time and resource on the "dirty" debating of the politics, I will let that settle and move forward...

On the election, rather than voting between "Liberal" and "NDP", I will "go" and "throw in" a "blank" vote. Reason - I don't like "Liberal" in this regards and I'm disappointed for what they've done. However, on the other hand, I don't like "NDP" in all manners. Having a "blank" vote is not doing nothing, it shows that how many "middlers" like me are existing. When the parties are being elected, they will need to think about how to gather the attention of these "middlers" in the next next election.

作者: sheep 時間: 2010-12-26 09:24

If you ask me if the HST is lowered to 10%, I will say "Yes"
lo_pak 發表於 2010-12-25 23:25

Win Win

作者: elan7e 時間: 2010-12-26 11:19

回復 49# lo_pak

完全同意。

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