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標題: downpayment 有屋企人幫嗎? [打印本頁]

作者: auyatyat 時間: 2011-1-29 02:45 標題: downpayment 有屋企人幫嗎?

前排睇o左個香港節目講80後好難上車,其實溫哥華都唔好得去邊,當香港排第一o既時候,溫哥華都排o係第三位...兩邊都係咁唔affordable...香港d 同學好多想買屋先結婚,所以計劃一直推遲...依家有一pair 終於放棄o左,決定租屋結婚

自己終於儲夠down payment買屋 (其實只係一個downtown condo)...希望無上錯車....
爸爸媽媽有少少suprised 因為佢o地大部份時間o係香港,唔係好知我做乜.
我bf 成日話男女朋友,每人每年供RRSP max limit,其實過得幾年一定會買到屋(即使係10% down 都好過無) 不過又有幾多人真係咁乖....交稅交o左咁鬼多,自問節流無特別方法,平日o係屋企食早餐,pack lunch返工,夜晚食簡單晚餐..無乜特別娛樂,打o左波做o下gym 咁過,儲錢亦都靠開源,做o下秘撈,接o下side jobs,幫人補o下習...

作者: Nam 時間: 2011-1-29 09:58

能力做到的，盡量希望唔洗父母幫，話哂個啲係佢哋養老嘅錢！

其實，我都差不多儲蓄到10 % down，但係買樓無理唔放20 㗎，條數真係好襟計，又要instalment 又要 strata fee，再加埋 premium，真係會做樓奴㗎喎！

作者: librazhy 時間: 2011-1-29 10:59

if you struggled even about a small percentage downpayment, your income doesn't seem to be high.

if your income is not high, buying rrsp is not wise.

作者: auyatyat 時間: 2011-1-29 11:56

回復 2# Nam

3月18之後min 15% down,距離上車o既路愈來愈難行...努力~

作者: Ovaltine 時間: 2011-1-29 12:44

then don't buy real estate, its that simple. i don't know why asian are so into real estate investment, the population explosion is over, even if you think there is explosion from india and africa, the more population will likely create more chaos aka war, in turn real estate may drop significantly or remain stagnant. real estate developers and parents are usually feeding the media frenzy by telling their kids to buy houses or condo as investment. pretty dumb imho

作者: 布小熊 時間: 2011-1-29 14:09

noop. used RRSP for the first down payment and it was a few years back...

作者: cremedelacreme 時間: 2011-1-29 14:32

If its affordable, preferably not to use parents money, bcuz they are old, and those are their own savings, I would like to see them go travel etc instead. and it would be nice if we can use our own money to purchase our own place if the $ permits.

作者: masterbear 時間: 2011-1-29 17:31

then don't buy real estate, its that simple. i don't know why asian are so into real estate investme ...
Ovaltine 發表於 2011-1-29 12:44

Interest rate is still so low for term deposit.... if not buy real estate, where u invest your $ in long term?

作者: Ovaltine 時間: 2011-1-29 17:49

stock market, find a good dividend stock wait for recession or depression, get the stock 50% off, buy it, let it sit for 10+ years.

作者: chrichri 時間: 2011-1-29 18:09

本帖最後由 chrichri 於 2011-1-29 18:18 編輯

No, as my parents don't have money $ to help me for down + I DON'T WANT TO USE THEIR retirement money.

i bought my first apt with my husband in march 2009 and moved in june 2009 when the price was low. At that time we didn't know if it was a good time to buy, but we wanted to have our own place after marriage. we have been renting my mother in law's apt for 1 yr at that time.

So...We bought it with 10% down and paid about 7k cmhc insurance. We took it out altogether 30k from both rrsp and some savings. Everything was all good. I liked itand enjoyed my place, but then we saw the price of our apt went up for more than 20% in april 2010. We started thinking about having kids in the future, so we put it in the market and sold it for over 20% of what we paid for and started renting til we just bought our townhouse with over 20% downpayment because of the gain from selling the apt.

With that i always think property is a good investment if you are living in there...
Cuz when the price of your property increase, you can take a homeline of credit to borrow money for investment or other needs or emergency, so it is good if you can basically afford a 5-10% down and a regular mortgage payment.
As long as you pay it, eventually your mortgage balance reduced, you will have equity. It is better than renting. although vancouver is ranked no.3 for cost of living, i always think with more than avg min pay income, two ppl working family without kids, it is not hard to save up at least 15k per person for a downpayment for a small apt, even both my husband and i are paying hundreds in student loan every month

Just my thoughts.. a lot of young ppl in hk have too much expectations on their first home, like a very convenient location and big new apt with amenties are just not too unrealistic.... prices of apt in richmond or vancouver are just not too high as compare to the prices in hk, especially mortgage rate is the lowest...
what i suggest for rrsp/tfsa is to do a regular contribution and set yourself up with at least a few hundred dollars a month. it is definitely a regular and auto savings.

作者: chrichri 時間: 2011-1-29 18:17

回復 2# Nam

it is hard to catch up with 20% down as prices also increase too.
i agree with auyatyat. Once the new mortgage rules come out, it is even harder for you to have a mortgage qualify or to have afford a mortgage payment.

they reduce mortgage amortization from 35 to 30 yrs... that is a big different with monthly payment already.

15 % will also required plus you will need to pay cmch insurance

I will suggest you can go over some mortgage calculator to determine how much you can afford..
usually cmhc insured mortgage, the total debt service ratio is 42%-44% of your salary, so you can't use over max 44% of your income for mortgage payment, property tax, 1/2 strata, monthly heating (usually $60) and your monthly credit card payment (3% of balance owing), loan payment....and etc.

Good luck.... .努力~

作者: FiChai 時間: 2011-1-29 21:20

To put money in stock and wait for 10 years, still risky. But to buy a housing as investment and also wait for 10 years, almost a guarantee to be a gain. Just look at the real estate stat back for the past 30+ years, no matter you bought your housing at the highest point or mid-point or lowest point, you'll have a gain after 10 years.

作者: masterbear 時間: 2011-1-29 21:25

stock market, find a good dividend stock wait for recession or depression, get the stock 50% off, bu ...
Ovaltine 發表於 2011-1-29 17:49

Well, no matter how good your stock and how how good return interest will be... so and so, whenever u withdraw, u still have to pay tax! (HEAVY TAX) ....... If say u gonna to pay rent instead of to buy a property to live in let's say 10 years, your landlord will be happy because u are the one (v. stable tenant) to help him/her to pay off their mortgage for 10 years... haha! If u used your own property to roll bigger or newer (upgrade) from time to time, buying and selling same market..... didn't see any negative pt. to do investment in this way

(I am a stock and property investor but just want to share my own pt. of opinion)!!

作者: Ovaltine 時間: 2011-1-29 22:29

本帖最後由 Ovaltine 於 2011-1-29 22:31 編輯

To put money in stock and wait for 10 years, still risky. But to buy a housing as investment and als ...
FiChai 發表於 2011-1-29 21:20

didn't i mentioned the real estate stat is based on population explosion of the baby boomers? you can't just say its a guarantee gain just because you look at the last 30 years of peaceful human history. do you really think the next 30 years gonna be the same as the last in the midst of global warming, overpopulation and disparity between rich and poor? i think chinese people buying real estate, they call it "get on car". this get on car thing is really herd mentality, i don't want to say its positive or not because i can't read the future, but words of caution is explained above.

my parents, my relatives all have rental properties as investment, its basically our family business, if you calculate the return per year based on the value of the current housing price is about 6% after all maintenance and bull**** from tenants, so its not really that fun to be a landlord. i can make 6% easily through stock market or just deposit+ i can pull out whenever i want. i got place to live in already, so i don't have to worry for a long time.

作者: FiChai 時間: 2011-1-29 22:35

didn't i mentioned the real estate stat is based on population explosion of the baby boomers? you ...
Ovaltine 發表於 2011-1-29 22:29

Of course I know. But to compare to put money in stock market vs real estate, both for a 10 year term, which one do you think is safer or less risky?

作者: kingkong123 時間: 2011-1-29 23:43

本帖最後由 kingkong123 於 2011-1-29 23:46 編輯

屋企人帮下没什么所谓，先上车在算，然后再每月还给屋企人咯

点都好过你自己慢慢存20% 首期，试想下啊，你认为你自己存的钱有可能升得快过楼价吗？温哥华没大陆炒家甘就有可能，不过事实没可能啊

无论点，先上车再算，慢慢等，等下就一年，再等下又一年，你想买的楼就越来越细间。我身边甘的人好多，到最后自己还是觉得自己笨

再讲啦，就算给CMHC 的insurance 甘又点啊，起码上左车先算，而且premium都唔系话多姐，点都好过你交屋租帮人供楼

作者: kingkong123 時間: 2011-1-29 23:47

能力做到的，盡量希望唔洗父母幫，話哂個啲係佢哋養老嘅錢！

其實，我都差不多儲蓄到10 % down，但係買樓 ...
Nam 發表於 2011-1-29 09:58

父母帮只是借，到时候你分期还给他地米得咯

有楼好过没啊，何必甘迂腐呢

作者: kingkong123 時間: 2011-1-29 23:51

本帖最後由 kingkong123 於 2011-1-29 23:52 編輯

No, as my parents don't have money $ to help me for down + I DON'T WANT TO USE THEIR retirement mone ...
chrichri 發表於 2011-1-29 18:09

you are smart lah!

be careful using you home LOC $$ for other investment, it is risky. in 2009 and 2010 the risk was low, now anymore for 2011

作者: kingkong123 時間: 2011-1-29 23:54

stock market, find a good dividend stock wait for recession or depression, get the stock 50% off, bu ...
Ovaltine 發表於 2011-1-29 17:49

讲就容易，现实唔系甘多人够胆甘做

事实上好多人在低位的时候出，高位的时候入

作者: kingkong123 時間: 2011-1-29 23:57

回復 Nam

3月18之後min 15% down,距離上車o既路愈來愈難行...努力~
auyatyat 發表於 2011-1-29 11:56

你错啦

你仍然可以放5%首期，只是还款周期限制在30年以内，只要你收入足够你就可以放5%首期啊

作者: masterbear 時間: 2011-1-30 01:38

didn't i mentioned the real estate stat is based on population explosion of the baby boomers? you ...
Ovaltine 發表於 2011-1-29 22:29

OK! U are absolutely right then! Good luck on your stock and hope u will face a good landlord rest of your life then!

作者: Ovaltine 時間: 2011-1-30 02:45

Of course I know. But to compare to put money in stock market vs real estate, both for a 10 year te ...
FiChai 發表於 2011-1-29 22:35

i know what u mean, this is also the chinese saying "without money, you still have a shelter" another one of those saying embedded into our culture. its like advertisement for the real estate developers. how many houses do you really need for your family? one.

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-1-30 03:52

didn't i mentioned the real estate stat is based on population explosion of the baby boomers? you ...
Ovaltine 發表於 2011-1-29 22:29

What stocks you invest in that give you at least 6% return?
When your family members have so many properties, of course you don't have to worry about buying a property yourself.

作者: Look4chrisng 時間: 2011-1-30 06:57

前排睇o左個香港節目講80後好難上車,其實溫哥華都唔好得去邊,當香港排第一o既時候,溫哥華都排o係第三位... ...
auyatyat 發表於 2011-1-29 02:45

Her boyfriend is very good. Should grab him as husband asap.  It is hard to find man like him in these day and age.

Don't listen to people who say real estate is a sure thing.  Just look at USA, it is down for 20-30%.  And people are losing their home left and right. No one knows where the market will go.  You have to sort it out yourself for your own situation.

If you decided to buy, remember to add room in your budget for interest rate to increase.  And make sure you know how your budget works inside and out, and be able to hold onto your home when rate at 6-7%.

作者: FiChai 時間: 2011-1-30 09:55

Based on stat (not me), invest in real estate for a 10 YEAR TERM (NOT 1 or 2 YEAR SHORT TERM) is ALMOST a gain. And no matter people invest in real estate or stock, nobody can tell the future anyways.
Not only Chinese would buy real estate for investment, but also many Caucasians would do. I have no stat of which race group have more investments though. Actually I think it's not a must to buy your own home to live in, it's really not a problem for renting a house/suite for the whole life. But when it comes to "long term investment", I think real estate is a relatively safe play.

作者: fy789 時間: 2011-1-30 10:26

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作者: sheep 時間: 2011-1-30 10:39

回復 peter236

AAPL

Bought at $25 a share in 98, now at $335 !

Too bad I bought too few. ...
fy789 發表於 2011-1-30 10:26

sold?
How much you paid for tax?

作者: tsumorichisato 時間: 2011-1-30 11:46

投資房地產都好多類，landlord 係唔容易做，話每年得既回報好似唔係多，但係如果你d 地值錢，十年前買落就算間屋勁殘都升左成最少一倍有多啦，當然我自己就對condo 市場既信心係唔大就真既，但要住就要買架啦，租樓好似無包袱，但做遊牧民族我自己就唔enjoy

作者: auyatyat 時間: 2011-1-30 18:57

回復 28# tsumorichisato

安居樂業...
對我o黎講要做o野做得好,生活得開心,好大情度係在乎有無穩定居所...
租屋住o既話,好快一個月要交租,好快又話完租約,一陣屋主又話要賣屋,自己無乜控制權

作者: tofu 時間: 2011-1-30 19:46

kids just expect too much, if you check the mls, you can still find some apartments in surrey, delta or .... around $100000. yes, these apartments are old, not close to skytrain/downtown, small size, and not much room to grow in value. But these are what you can afford.
buying a house or not is just a personal choice, no guarantee in return. asked those people who brought a house around '96/'97, they can tell you their investment were just break even recently.

作者: fy789 時間: 2011-1-30 19:52

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作者: Ovaltine 時間: 2011-1-31 03:03

Based on stat (not me), invest in real estate for a 10 YEAR TERM (NOT 1 or 2 YEAR SHORT TERM) is ALM ...
FiChai 發表於 2011-1-30 09:55

real estate is not safe at all, with so much economic uncertainty looming. it seems like the economy is rebounding, but lots of countries are going bankrupt, social unrest all over the world due to rising food prices and stagnant salary. population on earth will grow and grow until a tipping point, the next 30 years, we will either keep growing which means rising food prices, or war outbreak from poorer countries such as egypt and north korea. do you really think real estate prices will rise in an all out war? really depends if Canada is gonna be in combat. but i sure rather invest in stock market as I can pull out the money in a few days, but real estate will take couple months.

作者: tsumorichisato 時間: 2011-1-31 09:43

買得磚頭當然因為唔係好想理0甘多野, 股票都係要研究都要用好多時間架, 唔係快錢你估0甘容易賺...
唔識買股票, 都係磚頭穩陣D...我覺得0甘樣比較唔係好公平, 實際上係depends 個投資者既interest

anyway 當磚頭都有好唔掂既一日, 股票都應該係廢紙, 有幾多人真係react 得0甘快啊0知道幾時要放啊

作者: icing 時間: 2011-1-31 09:51

Buying a place is better than renting afterall.
Pay mortgage - you own a property (a portion)
Pay rent - expenses, when you retire, you probably can't afford the rent anymore....

作者: FiChai 時間: 2011-1-31 11:38

real estate is not safe at all, with so much economic uncertainty looming. it seems like the econo ...
Ovaltine 發表於 2011-1-31 03:03

I think nothing is gonna 100% safe investment. Not to challenge you, but please do let me (us) know what investment is 100% safe, during normal days and especially at war. As far as I know, stock could come to 0 value, but I never seen a 0 value house in general cases.

作者: fibbi 時間: 2011-1-31 11:42

有樓嘅話（供滿之後），就算無錢，都會有瓦遮頭，租嘅話就。。。

作者: Look4chrisng 時間: 2011-1-31 12:03

本帖最後由 Look4chrisng 於 2011-1-31 12:08 編輯

I think nothing is gonna 100% safe investment. Not to challenge you, but please do let me (us) know ...
FiChai 發表於 2011-1-31 11:38

Not only they have $0 value, sometime they have neg value.

Remember the RE value in HK after 1997? How many people dead because of -ve value of the home/investment.

作者: Look4chrisng 時間: 2011-1-31 12:08

In fact, for the $0 down/40yr mortgages. The first moment they sign off the mortgage, their home is less than $0 value.

I am not trying to say RE is bad/good. But before you sign off the biggest purchase of your life, you should at least know these concepts.

作者: habitrailspace 時間: 2011-1-31 12:23

有樓嘅話（供滿之後），就算無錢，都會有瓦遮頭，租嘅話就。。。
fibbi 發表於 2011-1-31 11:42

点會無錢呀!賣咗層樓咪有囉!

作者: Ovaltine 時間: 2011-1-31 15:13

本帖最後由 Ovaltine 於 2011-1-31 15:21 編輯

i am not saying not buy real estate, i just want people to understand, if you can't afford it, its okay to not buy it and use the money to invest on other things such as stock market or etf, which may have higher return. also if u have a house to live in already, i just don't see a point in buying another one, especially in lower mainland. my situation is probably different, i live a pretty nomadic lifestyle, so i probably don't need to buy properties to tie me down.

vancouver home prices are way over priced, i don't see why people are still planning to buy with little income, this really ties them down financially, and it will close doors of opportunity for them during their most efficient years in the workforce. they might have a chance to buy a business, or invest in some stocks but they can't because the mortgage is tying them down. i mean its atleast 15 years, so i beg all you to think twice, is there a better waY to grow the money elsewhere? christ, buy real esate in northern bc, or oregon. those are good deals, but definitely not in lower mainland.

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2011-1-31 15:45

有樓嘅話（供滿之後），就算無錢，都會有瓦遮頭，租嘅話就。。。
fibbi 發表於 2011/1/31 11:42

but there is maintenance cost and property taxes
many retired seniors in Toronto sold their houses because they couldn't afford to pay the taxes

作者: fibbi 時間: 2011-1-31 16:27

senior has very low property tax rate, dunno about ON but that's the case in BC.
Maintenance fee is one thing, but the worst case can rent out basement to get some cash.

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2011-1-31 18:45

You always make money buying real estate...... I thought I heard that some time ago before....

Oh ya, I remember, it must've been in the states back in 2008.

LOL

Yeah, you might make money if you invest long term on a 10 year span... if you can survive through -ive value of your real estate tho.

I'm not saying not to buy real estate as an investment. But if you buy with the expectation that you will 'always make money'. Then you seriously just shouldn't invest PERIOD. All investment carries risk. Herd mentality bubble carries the highest risk. Leveraging (mortgage/margin, really the same stuff) on these bubbles are essentially suicide.

This topic has been beaten to death before. If you need a place to live, check twice on your personal circumstances and see if rent or buy is a better option. Do not be misled that buying is ALWAYS better than rent. Do the math and make sure it's the case for your personal situation. Herd mentally have killed lots of people and it can just as easily be you.

Oh, and... don't leverage unless you can bear the worst case scenario. Good luck.

作者: FiChai 時間: 2011-1-31 21:25

Not only they have $0 value, sometime they have neg value.

Remember the RE value in HK after 19 ...
Look4chrisng 發表於 2011-1-31 12:03

I want to compare the risk of real estate vs stock as investment, which real estate is territorial and stock is global. I'm talking about real estate investment here in Vancouver vs global stock market, which is more risky?

作者: FiChai 時間: 2011-1-31 21:31

IMO, very low income means not too much spare money and can bear very little risk for investment. It might not be a bad idea for just putting money in bank savings or term deposit. For that VERY LITTLE MONEY (as you described), neither it's good to put in real estate nor stock market la.

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