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標題: Energy saving light bulb [打印本頁]
作者: boss2007    時間: 2011-4-20 23:50     標題: Energy saving light bulb

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/healt ... sing-chemicals.html
作者: zuesel    時間: 2011-5-19 11:23

本帖最後由 zuesel 於 2011-5-19 11:25 編輯

回復 1# boss2007

Thank you for posting this. It's sad that our electric company and manufacturers have people believe that CFL is the greatest and the best. There have been many studies to prove that it's actually a health hazard. True, it's good on money saving but think of the health risk in the long run. People may say that lots of things give you cancer anyway. However, the thing with lighting is that you and your family spend hours dining, reading, playing, whatever, whenever you are at home (or even at work). So, it's not as avoidable like food choices and life style.

When CFL's first came out, BC hydro was promoting it like crazy! People lined up to get them, watched and jumped for sales. They were very expensive too but people believed it was worth it although they are ugly as hell. However, notice that BC hydro, although doesn't disclose the harmful effects, no longer promo them. You can get CFLs at dollar stores nowadays. I once saw them for $0.99 in a overstock bin at a drug store!

As an Interior Decorator, we would never, ever promote CFL's to any clients. Seriously, if you want energy saving, safe, and pretty looking lights, go for LED'S!!

Here are some readings of interest.

http://www.scientificamerican.co ... ightbulbs-dangerous

http://www.squidoo.com/truth_about_cfl_bulbs

http://unhypnotize.com/health/26 ... mful-radiation.html

Above are just a little bit of all the links and studies of bad effects of CFLs
作者: fm9610    時間: 2011-5-19 22:09

回復 2# zuesel

My home has been using fluorescent lamp for long. I thought CFL is the same thing, but just smaller? BTW, do we not have FL as the backlight on LCD monitor/TV? So no TV or computer monitor?
作者: peter236    時間: 2011-5-20 00:35

But LED are still very expensive. If health is a concern, still getting LED is worth it.
作者: zuesel    時間: 2011-5-20 09:51

本帖最後由 zuesel 於 2011-5-20 09:54 編輯

Yes, considering the harmful effect (more study has been done on CFL) and it's becoming more and more apparent the negative impacts. I urge people to really google them. Some of the main points to remember are:



This is an excellent read:
http://lowenergylampsinfo.wordpr ... -saving-lamps-cfls/
作者: B2L2    時間: 2011-5-20 10:15

Yes, fluorescent light tube is the same technology as CFL (compact fluorescent light lamp).  i.e. they both have the same concern.

Quote from wiki : "Development of fluorescent lamps that could fit in the same volume as comparable incandescent lamps required the development of new, high-efficacy phosphors that could withstand more power per unit area than the phosphors used in older, larger fluorescent tubes."

Does this high-efficacy phosphors make the situation worst, I don't know.

For LCD TV/monitor, I haven't read any bad report about their radiation and EMF rating.  Maybe they put extra shielding into these hundred dollars equipment.  Plus I'm assuming their energy level is much much lower then the smallest CFL light bulb.

In my company, there are rooms that are special for over-light shift workers.  These rooms are all equipped with special ordered fluorescent light tube to simulate the day-time environment.  This way we could keep them working harder....  
作者: zuesel    時間: 2011-5-20 11:09

回復 3# fm9610

It's kind of technical and hard to explain...
Although fluorescent still isn't the best choice, it is still better than CFL's. The key is in the physical make up of the bulbs/tubes.
Fluorescent Light is emitted from a glass tube filled with mercury vapor and argon, lined with a phosphor coating and sealed at the ends with cathodes. The ballast (not biodegradable) which controls the current, voltage and connection is housed in the casing of the lighting unit. Where as CFL's have the ballast built right into the bulbs.

As with your concern of monitors and such. The effect is different and isn't as damaging because you won't be able to stare at a light bulb for hours.
作者: zuesel    時間: 2011-5-20 11:33

回復 4# peter236

Actually, LED lights are energy saving too!
Check this out! New 100W-equivalent LED Bulb Only Uses 16W of Power
http://www.mobilemag.com/2011/05 ... -uses-16w-of-power/

Turning on/off doesn't affect the lifespan
It's cold to the touch
Has no harmful chemical
Can last up to 50,000 hours
save up to 90% of energy consumption
free of infra red and UV
can be used under water

For us decorators, we like it because it provides great color rendition (effect of a light source on the visual appearance of a colored surface)
A good color rendition light temperature is 2700-3500 kelvin.

So when doing light planning, keep in mind what to use to bring out the best in your home, paintings, decors, etc.

Other light sources that are energy efficient are Halogen and Xenon
作者: fm9610    時間: 2011-5-20 21:28

回復 7# zuesel

But I stare at my 2 LCD monitors the whole day and they are only a feet from my head!
作者: zuesel    時間: 2011-5-21 02:06

回復  zuesel

But I stare at my 2 LCD monitors the whole day and they are only a feet from my head! ...
fm9610 發表於 2011-5-20 21:28


Maybe you should google for your concern. I didn't study about lighting on monitors as a part of Interior decorating. I think it's common sense that either way, sitting for prolong hours in front of the monitor doesn't do people any good. Not only the light but also one's posture could have negative impact.
作者: peter236    時間: 2011-5-21 22:19

本帖最後由 peter236 於 2011-5-21 22:21 編輯
回復  zuesel

But I stare at my 2 LCD monitors the whole day and they are only a feet from my head! ...
fm9610 發表於 2011-5-20 21:28

LCD monitors are already much better than those old and bulky CRT monitors.
Those CRT monitors/TV produce way more radiation.

The monitor I am staring at now is LED backlit LCD, so it should be safe.
作者: Quest    時間: 2011-7-19 06:59     標題: 8

本帖最後由 Quest 於 2011-7-19 07:03 編輯

Oh yeah, same old BSing from boss2007 again, loads of unsubstantiated claims and no real facts.

Also: most of the links to internets are just non-factual.

Fact: most Asian countries, incl. Jpn, has been using fluorescent lightings since the 50s, no reports on ill health reporting from them.

Fact: granted, if a CFL can last 8000hrs using only a quarter of the power of a standard tungsten filament lightbulb (which is known to have around 6~8% energy conversion efficiency, while the rest are being converted to heat, and typically comes with nominal service life of 1000 to 1500hrs), then throughout the use of 8000hrs, the mercury content from CFL(taking on the aspect of landfilling, which is approx. 0.6mg +1.2mg from coal-firing electricity plant), would be waay less than that mercury emissions associated to coal-firing electrical plant for powering that same type of filament lightbulb -->5.8mg). see ref below:

Ref: http://www.epa.gov/cfl/

ref: (Quoted from Wiki site): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_fluorescent_lamp

Environmental issues[edit] Mercury contentCFLs, like all fluorescent lamps, contain mercury[46][47] as vapor inside the glass tubing. Most CFLs contain 3–5 mg per bulb, with the eco-friendly bulbs containing as little as 1 mg.[48][49] Because mercury is poisonous, even these small amounts are a concern for landfills and waste incinerators where the mercury from lamps may be released and contribute to air and water pollution. In the U.S., lighting manufacturer members of the National Electrical Manufacturers Association (NEMA) have voluntarily capped the amount of mercury used in CFLs.[50] In the EU the same cap is required by the RoHS law.

In areas with coal-fired power stations, the use of CFLs saves on mercury emissions when compared to the use of incandescent bulbs. This is due to the reduced electrical power demand, reducing in turn the amount of mercury released by coal as it is burned.[51][52] In July 2008 the U.S. EPA published a data sheet stating that the net system emission of mercury for CFL lighting was lower than for incandescent lighting of comparable lumen output. This was based on the average rate of mercury emission for U.S. electricity production and average estimated escape of mercury from a CFL put into a landfill.[53] Coal-fired plants also emit other heavy metals, sulphur, and carbon dioxide.


Net mercury emissions for CFL and incandescent lamps, based on EPA FAQ sheet, assuming average U.S. emission of 0.012 mg of mercury per kilowatt-hour and 14% of CFL mercury contents escapes to environment after land fill disposal.In the United States, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency estimated that if all 270 million compact fluorescent lamps sold in 2007 were sent to landfill sites, that this would represent around 0.13 metric tons, or 0.1% of all U.S. emissions of mercury (around 104 metric tons that year).[54]

The EPA updated their mercury comparison graph in November 2010. The graph assumes that CFLs last an average of 8000 hours regardless of manufacturer and premature breakage. In areas where coal is not used to produce energy, the content emissions would be less than the power plant emissions for both types of bulb. [55]

**********************************************************************
Yeah, you can claim anything you want but fluorescent lighting technologies have been with us for over 80+ years, and it wasn't until recently that the spark of these CFL concerns become eminent? (I laughed my heads off on most of these myths and urban legends).

The development of CFL has to do mainly for the sake/ease of retrofitting most E26 Edison type (screw based) filament lighting systems, without the need of addition external electronics.

While most of you may have experienced less than reported service life on most CFLs avail (blame it all on low quality electronic components from china), typically around 1300 to no more than 2000hrs typical, certain brands such as the high end Philips Marathon or FEIT, DO USE HIGH QUALITY components and they can last over 6000hrs easily ( I have a pair of PAR-30 FEIT that's been running on-and-off for 5+yrs now, still works every nite).

Mind you: a mercury thermometer contains between 500 ~1000mgs worth of mercury within, as compared to 5mg (typical) or 2mg (low mercury type) CFLs, so, what is the point here...

And the association with phenols, flickering (CFLs run on very high freq., as opposed to the older magnetic ballast type which flickers around 60/50Hz), are equally unfounded.

filament lighting is on it's way out, and CFL and the likes shall remain with us for a few more decades before LED technologies become mature enough to take on the market full-force.

Also: even with Canada, starting late last year (believe it was Oct, 2010), gradually improving typically low-efficiency filament lightbulb by going with Halogen type with reduced wattage (around 46watts halogen equivalent to 60watts standard filament type), and Canada is also on it's way to phase out older AC 120V filament light bulbs entirely (except automobile type).

Q.

p.s. yes, I have 26 pot lights in my house, all of them already converted to CFLs. I have more concerns over my children's health and well-being than most LYKs here and am I worry about mercury to my kids? yeah! am I worry about CFL breakage causing mercury poisioning to my kids?! not in a million years (I'm careful when handling/disposing CFLs, besides: Ikea and a few other places do have CFL recycling facilities avail for dropoffs).

Also: I retro'ed a lot of my 2000hrs typ. CFLs to run over 8,000~10,000hrs, or until the filament inside the tube burns out. So, I'm getting more mileage out of my CFLs to make it worth my while than most of you folks.

I'm also an active member in EconReno boards alongside with many techno discussion folks....bust my myth if you want...
作者: Look4chrisng    時間: 2011-7-19 08:43

I hate CFL light.  The greenish light makes people look ugly.

Try, GE Reveal lightbulb.  You won't go back to CFL.
作者: Quest    時間: 2011-7-19 08:59

I hate CFL light.  The greenish light makes people look ugly.

Try, GE Reveal lightbulb.  You won't ...
Look4chrisng 發表於 2011-7-19 08:43


sure! anything you want.

note: you'd better stock up before Canadian Govt bans filament light bulb (AC 120V) completely in the next several year's time.
作者: satil    時間: 2011-7-19 09:04

本帖最後由 satil 於 2011-7-19 09:28 編輯

i hate CFL light.. it is not 'long life' as they said.
Not buying any CFL for 2 years.
NOW, half house LED light, replace to LED everytime a CFL die.
it save MORE energy, it generate lower heat. it is real 'long life' . BUT it is $$$$$, and you may need more LED bulbs to provide same brightness. It is not a 1 to 1 replace.
作者: Look4chrisng    時間: 2011-7-19 09:11

If you go to Hotel Van,  it is nothing but GE Reveal bulb.  I just want better looking light.

Plus, I wonder it would be just as efficient in winter.
作者: B2L2    時間: 2011-7-19 11:52

I say education is the key.  You could do and use whatever after you get informed.

From what I read, most people who against using the CFL and light tube have two main reasons: 1) the chemicals it carries (mercury and many other), 2) CFL emits light close to daylight which affect your body clock.

We used light tube since I was kid.  Back then, no one tell us that it contains mercury inside and it needs to be dispose properly.  As a kid, I even purposely break the old tube for fun.  On the other hand, I do know mercury is poison, but when a mercury thermometer breaks, I even touched the mercury, how silly as a kid.

(Mind you, the mercury is in liquid form from a thermometer while it is as vapor inside the CFL.  Not a fair comparison in any way.)

Now, info is out there to tell people CFL contains such and such, and you need to handle them carefully.  We now should know returning old bulb and tube to the recycling facility and not your garbage bin.  You should be all good unless you have an accident.  If you "do" managed to break a CFL at home, what are you going to do?  That's mercury vapour right at your home, and not at the power plant.  I once saw a broken one at HomeDepot and I have to tell myself that nobody is going to die because of it.  

A thing that has old history doesn't have anything to do with its safety, especially nobody know there are unsafe at the beginning.  But I agree that CFL will still be around for decades, and people should learn how to handle them now not later.  (HomeDepot is also another place for recycling, FYI.)

For the bluer light from CFL, I have no comment whether it related to the body health.  There are too many things in our modern world that affects our health.  Maybe CFL is one of them, who knows.  Personally, I don't like the bright white light in my resting area, that's all.  I do replaced a few of my bulbs to LED already.  More expensive but I have less concern that way.

- Brian
作者: zuesel    時間: 2011-7-19 16:43

本帖最後由 zuesel 於 2011-7-19 17:13 編輯

回復 12# Quest
Thank you for sharing. Not sure why you are defensive about this topic and challenge others to "bust your myth" . Not a competition here, so winner doesn't get a trophy.

The information I shared is to raise awareness. People should do more research if interested and choose whatever they want to use. I received education about the harmful effects of CFL from interior design institute. It is known in our industry not to promote CFL in concern with our clients’ safety plus poor color rendition from the cosmetic POV. Colors and objects appear flat and lifeless. The many controversies and “capping”, restrictions, etc that you mentioned indicates there are still risks involved. While improvements are being made, nothing has been publicized to educate the general public “only” to buy a specific brand; to avoid manufactures of a certain country; and avoid the ones made in a certain year. How many people know about these? In a sense, it could still be harmful if not aware of the risks and proper handling.

I called BCHydro. They would not comment on why they stopped promoting CFLs like they used to and studies on headaches, diabetes, etc. They did however, say it’s not advisable for **Lupus* patients. Also to prevent explosion, DO NOT use in high moisture areas and inside sealed lamp shades such as recessed, pot lights, and bathroom ceiling. Also, they advised in the event of breakage, open all windows and doors, evacuate the room for at least 15 mins, pick up glass using gloves, put inside a plastic seal-able bag, double bag with another plastic bag, bring to the designated recycling center. For normal disposal, you'd still need to bring to designated depos. Unfortunately, these are just one of the many non-biodegradable products.

So, if there are all these stipulations and complication involved, plus improvements and studies are still being made…why not, if in doubt, for the time being use other means of lighting source just for a peace of mind? I personally don't believe in going through all the trouble (including shopping carefully for bulbs, making sure my family of young and old knows how to handle bulb explosion if I'm not at home), plus not certain about the risks is worth saving a few dollars. Besides, CFLs are NOT the only alternative to energy saving.

FYI, majority of the hospitals in civilized countries do not use mercury thermometers anymore.
作者: zuesel    時間: 2011-7-19 16:54

Sorry, kind of off topic for a bit but if you are interested to know what BCHydro is referring to, in the above:

**What is Lupus?
http://www.niams.nih.gov/Health_Info/Lupus/lupus_ff.asp

The immune system is designed to attack foreign substances in the body. If you have lupus, something goes wrong with your immune system and it attacks healthy cells and tissues. This can damage many parts of the body such as the:
•        Joints
•        Skin
•        Kidneys
•        Heart
•        Lungs
•        Blood vessels
•        Brain

There are many kinds of lupus.
The most common type, systemic lupus erythematous, affects many parts of the body. Other types of lupus are:
•        Discoid lupus erythematous—causes a skin rash that doesn't go away
•        Sub-acute cutaneous lupus erythematous—causes skin sores on parts of the body exposed to sun
•        Drug-induced lupus—can be caused by medications
•        Neonatal lupus—a rare type of lupus that affects newborns.

Who Gets Lupus?
Anyone can get lupus, but it most often affects women. Lupus is also more common in women of African American, Hispanic, Asian, and Native American descent than in Caucasian women.

What Are the Symptoms of Lupus?
Symptoms of lupus vary, but some of the most common symptoms of lupus are:
•        Pain or swelling in joints
•        Muscle pain
•        Fever with no known cause
•        Red rashes, most often on the face
•        Chest pain when taking a deep breath
•        Hair loss
•        Pale or purple fingers or toes
•        Sensitivity to the sun
•        Swelling in legs or around eyes
•        Mouth ulcers
•        Swollen glands
•        Feeling very tired.
作者: satil    時間: 2011-7-19 22:36

CFL is just like Hybrid car... it just a MID-way marketing environmental product. It is not cheap, it is not 'that' good. it is not real environmental friendly.

next stop will be LED light (waiting for next gen... using  zinc selenide... no phosphors.. cheaper, brighter, longer life ). just like Electric Car (waiting for better battery, higher efficacy motor.. fast charge, long life).



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