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標題: Wikileaks: no bloodshed inside Tiananmen Square, cables claim [打印本頁]

作者: soli 時間: 2011-6-14 19:21 標題: Wikileaks: no bloodshed inside Tiananmen Square, cables claim

本帖最後由 soli 於 2011-6-14 19:23 編輯

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ ... e-cables-claim.html

Secret cables from the United States embassy in Beijing have shown there was no bloodshed inside Tiananmen Square when China put down student pro-democracy demonstrations 22 years ago.

By Malcolm Moore, Shanghai

8:00AM BST 04 Jun 2011

The cables, obtained by WikiLeaks and released exclusively by The Daily Telegraph, partly confirm the Chinese government's account of the early hours of June 4, 1989, which has always insisted that soldiers did not massacre demonstrators inside Tiananmen Square.

Instead, the cables show that Chinese soldiers opened fire on protesters outside the centre of Beijing, as they fought their way towards the square from the west of the city.

Three cables were sent from the US embassy on June 3, in the hours leading up to the suppression, as diplomats realised that the final showdown between the protesters and soldiers was looming.

The cables described the "10,000 to 15,000 helmeted armed troops" moving into the city, some of whom were "carrying automatic weapons".

Meanwhile, "elite airborne troops" and "tank units" were said to be moving up from the south.

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不知道支聯會D大話精會點解釋呢? 維基解密俾大陸收買了?

作者: soli 時間: 2011-6-14 19:30

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ ... ananmen-cables.html

Five key extracts from the WikiLeaks files on Tiananmen.

1. From 89BEIJING18828 - July 7, 1989. A Chilean diplomat provides an eye-witness account of the soldiers entering Tiananmen Square: HE WATCHED THE MILITARY ENTER THE SQUARE AND DID NOT OBSERVE ANY MASS FIRING OF WEAPONS INTO THE CROWDS, ALTHOUGH SPORADIC GUNFIRE WAS HEARD. HE SAID THAT MOST OF THE TROOPS WHICH ENTERED THE SQUARE WERE ACTUALLY ARMED ONLY WITH ANTI-RIOT GEAR--TRUNCHEONS AND WOODEN CLUBS; THEY WERE BACKED UP BY ARMED SOLDIERS.

2. From 89BEIJING18828 - July 7, 1989. A Chilean diplomat provides an eye-witness account of the soldiers entering Tiananmen Square: ALTHOUGH GUNFIRE COULD BE HEARD, HE SAID THAT APART FROM SOME BEATING OF STUDENTS, THERE WAS NO MASS FIRING INTO THE CROWD OF STUDENTS AT THE MONUMENT.

3. From 89BEIJING14047 - May 21, 1989. Diplomats describe how the students have control of central Beijing through an elaborate system of blockades.

AS REPORTED EARLIER, STUDENTS APPEAR TO CONTROL ACCESS TO THE CENTRAL PART OF THE CITY THROUGH A SYSTEM OF BARRICADES AROUND THE SECOND AND THIRD RING ROADS AND AT OTHER MAJOR ROAD APPROACHES TO THE CITY.

POLOFF VISITING ONE SUCH ROADBLOCK AT THE INTERSECTION OF THE THIRD RING ROAD AND JIANGUOMENWAI AVENUE REPORTED THAT THERE ARE MORE THAN 50 BUSSES IN THE AREA. FOURTEEN BUSSES BENEATH THE JIANGUOMENWAI AVENUE OVERPASS CONTROL PASSAGE ON THE THIRD RING ROAD, WHICH RUNS NORTH-SOUTH. THE BUSSES HAVE LEFT A ONE LANE OPENING ALONG THE ROAD AND CAN EASILY BLOCK TRAFFIC BY DRIVING INTO THE LANE.

POLOFF REPORTED THAT CITY BUS DRIVERS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR MOVING THEIR VEHICLES AT THIS BARRICADE. ONE APPARENTLY FEARLESS DRIVER WITH WHOM POLOFF TALKED STATED THAT HE AND HIS FELLOWS ARE CONFIDENT THAT THEIR BLOCKADES WILL STOP PLA TANKS. (BUT WE DOUBT IT.)

4. From 89BEIJING14047 - May 21, 1989. An anonymous caller suggest the students have support from the leader of China's trade unions.

IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THE PARTY CONVENED A CENTRAL COMMITTEE (CCPCC)

MEETING SOMETIME BETWEEN THE NIGHT OF MAY 19 AND EARLY THIS MORNING AT WHICH MEMBERS DISSENTED WITH THE DECISION TO EMPLOY THE PLA TO RESTORE ORDER IN BEIJING. AN ANONYMOUS CALLER WHO PHONED CONGEN SHENYANG ON THE MORNING OF MAY 21 SAID THAT THE PARTY HAD CONVENED A CCPCC MEETING AND THAT CHAIRMAN OF THE ALL CHINA FEDERATION OF LABOR UNIONS NI ZHIFU CONDEMNED THE DECISION TO IMPOSE MARTIAL LAW.

ACCORDING TO THE CALLER, NI DEMANDED AN END TO MARTIAL LAW AND A POSITIVE REASSESSMENT OF THE STUDENT DEMONSTRATIONS. HE ALSO DEMANDED THAT THE GOVERNMENT HOLD TALKS WITH STUDENT LEADERS. THE CALLER CLAIMED THAT NI THREATENED TO LEAD A GENERAL STRIKE IF THE CENTRAL COMMITTEE FAILED TO ACCEPT HIS DEMANDS. THE CALLER DID NOT STATE WHEN OR WHERE THE MEETING WAS HELD OR IF OUT-OF-TOWN MEMBERS ATTENDED.

5. From 89BEIJING14102 - May 22, 1989. Diplomats describe the joyous mood among the protestors after the first introduction of martial law in Beijing fails to halt the pro-democracy movement.

THE SENSE OF VICTORY WHICH THE WEARY DEMONSTRATORS CELEBRATED AT DAYBREAK APPEARED LARGER THAN JUST ONE MORE NIGHT OF DEFIANCE, THE NINTH NIGHT OF THE TIANANMEN OCCUPATION. A WIDESPREAD VIEW AMONG DEMONSTRATORS WAS THAT AFTER THIS NIGHT AND FORTY-EIGHT SURREAL HOURS OF NON-ENFORCED MARTIAL LAW, THE PROVERBIAL "MANDATE"-- POLITICAL LEGITIMACY--OF THE CURRENT LEADERSHIP HAS BEEN LOST. IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN, OF COURSE, WHETHER THE LEADERSHIP AGREES.

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2011-6-14 19:36

inside Tiananmen Square... how about outside?

作者: soli 時間: 2011-6-14 19:49

回復 3# mcjohnjohn

是不是屠殺﹐有待討論。
但美國講既(大概)﹐軍隊有權在被亂石襲擊下自衛。

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2011-6-14 20:16

回復 mcjohnjohn

是不是屠殺﹐有待討論。
但美國講既(大概)﹐軍隊有權在被亂石襲擊下自衛。 ...
soli 發表於 2011-6-15 11:49

小弟相信當年解放軍既數目唔會少. 點解唔可以控制好個場面?
小弟覺得一定有人借機生事, 但係唔係真係到了一個不能控制既局面而要使用武力?
就算係使用武力, 點解程度會達到一個超出一般人所想像既程度呢? 究竟係唔係有領導人提出要快d 解決件事而不惜一切呢?
究竟件事死左幾多平民, 死左幾多暴民, 死左幾多軍人? 到而家都冇呢d 資料. 呢d 資料真係咁難搵嗎? 究竟當年有冇呢d 資料呢?

太多問號, 太難令人釋懷.

作者: soli 時間: 2011-6-14 20:18

回復 5# mcjohnjohn

如果英文還可以的話﹐請留心看第2個post﹐大概就會明白了。

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2011-6-14 20:21

本帖最後由 mcjohnjohn 於 2011-6-15 12:23 編輯

回復 mcjohnjohn

如果英文還可以的話﹐請留心看第2個post﹐大概就會明白了。 ...
soli 發表於 2011-6-15 12:18

對不起, 我唔明白.
不知是我的英文水平太差, 還是我的心仍覺刺痛?

-- 不知者不罪 MJJ

作者: daimo 時間: 2011-6-14 20:51

到而家都冇呢d 資料. 呢d 資料真係咁難搵嗎? 究竟當年有冇呢d 資料呢?
...
mcjohnjohn 發表於 2011-6-14 20:16

有冇都 no difference lah ... You will choose to believe one side over the other anyway.

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2011-6-15 00:34

有冇都 no difference lah ... You will choose to believe one side over the other anyway.
daimo 發表於 2011-6-15 12:51

咁又唔係咁講喇.

係人都知我MJJ 最牆頭, 比多d 資料我分析(或者最好有人同我分析埋, 跟住寫個executive summary 比我), 可令小弟對整件事有更深入既睇法啊~

作者: soli 時間: 2011-6-15 06:42

本帖最後由 soli 於 2011-6-15 06:46 編輯

我在等班友來話wikileak 被大陸收買﹐被大陸hacked之類的﹐等大家恥笑下嘛。
怎麼都沒現身了?

這次踢爆﹐再次證明美國傳媒全無信譽可言﹐其實都是美國政府的宣傳機器。
當年香港電視台同報紙全部引用晒美國傳媒既報導來報導六四事件﹐搞到香港幾百萬人也中晒毒。

作者: BiscottiGelato 時間: 2011-6-15 11:45

"證明美國傳媒全無信譽可言﹐其實都是美國政府的宣傳機器"

Always been. It's so obvious. Don't need to proof la. LOL. The ones that doesn't realize and are brainwashed will always be. They are beyond redemption.

That said, media have always been the propganda machines, regardless of nation/country/gov't. Just that some does it with skill, fineness and way more subtlely. Even FB/Youtube, etc can/will/might censor certain materials. Maybe only independent blogs can be relied on to show some true individual thinkings... Albeit how advance we think humanity/society/democracy/etc is, it's really just baby step from our barbaric past. Hopefully we'll come up with something better sooner rather than later.

作者: daimo 時間: 2011-6-15 14:10

http://www2.orientaldaily.com.my ... 2890pI76inH0wT76j88

作者: peter236 時間: 2011-6-15 14:38

What is Mr Lik going to say about this? Most likely Mr Lik and his masters are planning how to erase this part of Wikileaks.

作者: rockypath 時間: 2011-6-16 09:16

It is not easy for people to listen to a different story which disagrees with what they are emotionally attached to and believe in.

Anyways, the truth will be eventually revealed.

作者: soli 時間: 2011-6-22 16:20

維基解密呢次既爆料﹐香港各媒體(互聯網除外)竟然都封口不作報導。
是受到某種壓力﹐要自我審查﹐還是怕人拿出當年六四的報導來比較﹐面子掛不住呢?

不過受害的最後也是香港巿民﹐因為他們將繼續被矇在鼓裡﹐失去了選擇相信/不相信既權利。

作者: zoids 時間: 2011-6-23 16:55

Again, in such thread, I DO NOT expect to see Lik dare to show his face. HAHAHAHAHA...

It's so obvious with the PLA capability, no way every single student leader could have gotten away from the "massacre".

作者: Lik 時間: 2011-6-23 17:12

仆街啦你～ Wikileak所講嘅就係全部呀？個智利佬目睹晒屠殺全程嘅所有經過呀？學生、參與者、咁多香港人響電視前面睇住熄燈，然後有槍聲同開槍嘅火星，果啲就係假嘅？

你 Zoids 呢條賤種，去仆街落地獄啦～

-力

作者: zoids 時間: 2011-6-23 19:44

仆街啦你～ Wikileak所講嘅就係全部呀？個智利佬目睹晒屠殺全程嘅所有經過呀？學生、參與者、咁多香港人響 ...
Lik 發表於 2011-6-23 17:12

Oh I know. The Chilean in fact didn't see the whole thing happening, but YOU DID!!! ALL YOU SAID MUST BE TRUE BECAUSE YOU MUST HAVE BEEN THERE AND YOU SOMEHOW CAN SEE THE WHOLE DAMN THING!!!

Lik is always right, no room to argue. He will only swear at you like an abusive boyfriend who punches you at the face to prove he is right!!! Hahahaha

作者: rockypath 時間: 2011-6-24 00:13

If any media wants to truly find out what actually happened in Tiananmen Square that night, I don't think it is difficult to do so since there were at least hundreds of students. It can find a few of them and verify what exactly happened.

The interesting part is - why there is no media intends to do so.

作者: mcjohnjohn 時間: 2011-6-24 00:47

The interesting part is - why there is no media intends to do so.
rockypath 發表於 2011-6-24 16:13

因為冇人知道邊個係講真, 邊個係講假.

作者: rockypath 時間: 2011-6-24 01:50

因為冇人知道邊個係講真, 邊個係講假.
mcjohnjohn 發表於 2011-6-24 00:47

I would say it because they know what kind of stories are more attractive to the readers and audiences.

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