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標題: FightFightHST - A Letter to Bill Vander Zalm [打印本頁]
作者: ACC-HE    時間: 2011-6-22 16:49     標題: FightFightHST - A Letter to Bill Vander Zalm

[youtube]nZXu3LXNwEg[/youtube]
作者: Guy    時間: 2011-6-22 19:21

Nah....too much details to argue...no point

ever one should just look at the bills, pay cheque , tax refund and  tax return and compare to the one before HST

I get less and pay more and upset more... therefore i vote no...

we are no expert. We dun look at the achievement/family background/ potential of the politician when we vote.... we all just vote for what we feels less upsetting.

if someone feel they get happy when pay more, they can vote yes to hst
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2011-6-22 19:26

Waitwaitwait
Just in case , you need to vote "yes" to extinguish HST.
So if you want to keep the hst, vote "no"
Vote "yes" to say no to HST
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2011-6-22 19:41

It is a no-win situation.
Given the fact that the federal fund already spent,
might as well get some tax break.
The NDP never offer any real solution other than empty talk.
Vander xxxx, well, does he have any credential at all?
Remember how he sell his Fantasy Garden and David Lam
sent him ultimatum: Resign or get fire
作者: rainbow-davie    時間: 2011-6-23 04:51

The problem is not just the HST itself.

1) We can't let gov't just impose any tax as they want.
2) reduce to 10% 3 years later? What happen if 3 yrs later it is another party ruling BC?
3) they never say how long they will keep it as 10%. or will it reduce further.
4) before, the GST is only 5%.  and only some goods have PST.  The money we save is more than the one time only tax return for HST.
5) THey claim that business will save money, thus, extra money they earn will go to staff.  is it true? will it happen?  will they pay more than minimum wage for minimum wage job?  I see not all business benefits though.
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2011-6-23 06:20

Not just being pessimistic, most Canadian cannot escape HST except Albertan.
I don't think the NDP  would do anything at all, Vander xxxx is just a clown
作者: blue20ae    時間: 2011-6-23 06:44

Just remember, there is no money in any government.  They will take in what they want/need to spend.  PST, or HST just define the way money is coming in, not how much.  The only way to reduce taxes is to make sure the government spend less.  Changing the tax system is one unnecessary expense.  With the switch from PST to HST, the damage is already done.  If we do switch back from HST to PST, you will see prices jump up again, not down.

As much as I hate the switch to HST.  I have to say keep it.
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2011-6-23 06:57

Totally agreed.
No doubt the Provincial government will save a bundle by merging the tax system,
less complicated and more efficient; but how would we benefit from that?
作者: satil    時間: 2011-6-23 07:11

FightFightHST V.2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frnBgX9QRZM
作者: satil    時間: 2011-6-23 08:18

回復 5# rainbow-davie

Let me try answer.. just my 2cents
1) at same time, we asking for MORE welfare. can we help gov cut the running cost? Where the money come from?
2/3) everyone know, if gov need more money, no one guarantee. Why gov need more money? If we have business like Alberta, do we need provincial tax?
4) Before HST, MOST of goods have PST (not only some). Most NO-pst before, now still 5%. Like raw food. (that’s y I keep asking why catering business keep saying cost increased after HST)
5) yes. We always keep a profit level. We cannot say I want 500%, when market only 30%. We save cost, it will change our investment plan. Buy more tools, get more staff.. or reduce price. Please remember market competition.
作者: satil    時間: 2011-6-23 08:18

本帖最後由 satil 於 2011-6-23 08:35 編輯

As business owner, I support HST. It lower my production cost, save a lot of man power. Less argue between customers, what/which parts of business is GST and PST. (e.g. printing, should paper/ink… and service separate tax? Yes, should separate, but most companies charge you ONE item and PST&GST all). In the past, we always OVER tax customers.
When there is PST, we have to separate resell/self use products, lots of small shop, they don’t allow PST exception. So, it always multi-PSTed on materials. Before HST, we simply put profit on top of ALL unnecessary tax, so customers don’t know they pay MORE. Now, all hidden PST gone. Will business owner reduce price? Yes, I will. For Example, before HST, my profit is 30%. Why? It means that business category accept this profit range between all companies. (market competition) After HST, if I have 10% more from hidden PST, my profit raise to 40%, the market will reset to 30% very soon. Of course, if the business is an exclusive, no competition, they do not need to have price reductions.
As a traveler, drinker and car lover, less hotel tax, less liquor tax, no luxury car tax. After HST, I saved a lot of money.
I support HST, BUT, 10%. (it is easy calculate) NOT 12%. They increase the tax base!

fyi. i have businesses in BC and Alberta, so i know how simple when totally no PST (simply 1 tax when retail). and most ppl don't know how bad with hidden-multi-PST in BC.
作者: lo_pak    時間: 2011-6-23 08:47

本帖最後由 lo_pak 於 2011-6-23 08:55 編輯

回復 11# satil

That's certainly right. PST in cost always imply in the price already in the retail level. Don't think you can pay less when PST comes back...

In my experience for internal control and cost calculations, after the HST, it simplifies the system quite a bit. In rough, the lumpsum for project cost turns out to be more or less the same before and after HST, you figure out what's happened...

Servicing sector gets the big hit, but hey, other than dining out, how often do you purchase for service instead of goods? If the Liberal can draw back the HST rate and keep the income tax rate constantly low, it's even more important.
作者: sheep    時間: 2011-6-23 09:59

回復 2# Guy


    but you have to vote YES to scrap HST
作者: real-mccoy    時間: 2011-6-23 10:40

Will business owner reduce price? Yes, I will. For Example, before HST, my profit is 30%. Why? It means that business category accept this profit range between all companies. (market competition) After HST, if I have 10% more from hidden PST, my profit raise to 40%, the market will reset to 30% very soon. Of course, if the business is an exclusive, no competition, they do not need to have price reductions.


Maybe you will drop the price.  What about the others?  If a customer is willing to pay $10 for an item when we have GST/PST, is there any intention to drop the price to $9 because the seller save more money from HST?  Wouldn't it be better to keep it in their pocket?  When will the market reset to 30%?  It's almost a year since we have HST, I don't see how positive for us so far.
作者: satil    時間: 2011-6-23 11:09

回復 14# real-mccoy

Price keep on a level before HST. base on market competition. this is all base on Cost. if cost drop. market will auto adjust.
I use example : profit 30%, ask yourself, how we mark the price before HST. Why 30%, why not 200%. Is it possible, you want 200%, you can mark 200%. Why not all companies mark a 500% profit level? What make it down to a reasonable (for everyone) profit level?
If you say, we now have 10% more back (cost drop), and we keep it. So why not a 40% profit level before the HST. What make it stay in 30% before HST?
What if a company sudden want boost sell, set profit level to 25%, will you follow, or make it 20% to fight back?
This price game happened before and it will happen in the future. When cost drop, it will auto adjust and reflect later. It need time to let the number come back. A lot of materials/procedures/parts/services under hidden-multi-PST already in the middle of production (prices sat year/mth ago), waiting to cleanup. Not you have HST today, and you want the effects showed same day. i say about 2 years.
you don't see price drop, and price increase a lot in past few months. it is totally not related to HST.
see the sugar, it +30% in two months. paper +25% in one month. its all about the source. material price raise a lot in last few months, it is global issus.
作者: real-mccoy    時間: 2011-6-23 17:55

It just unreasonable to set 500% profit margin, unless it's monopolize market.  Like what I said before, if they can sell a product at $10 with the 2 tax system, why would they sell it at $9 with HST?  Sure cost is lowered, but that doesn't mean the benefit is transferred to the customers.  Corporations basically made more money without increasing the price.

Now, let's assume it's $10 billion.  Doesn't that look better on the books with a billion more with a higher profit margin?  I am sure The Board don't mind that.  Sure, the money save *may* be re-invested back in BC.  It might also end up as year end bonus for the CEO.  Are we expecting out of goodwill that  they will share the benefit with the customers?

I will believe it when I see it.
作者: BiscottiGelato    時間: 2011-6-23 18:40

they might not pass the savings down to the consumer. But it's better than used to hire accountants and government officials to deal with the extra paper work needed for handling PST.

View it as so that they'll have 1 less excuse to further bump up prices, and 1 less excuse to hire extra government staff to handle PST. If people consider that PST vs HST is a wash, I think this efficiency aspect alone, even if it does not translate into cost saving for the average consumer, is already worth it. Afterall, if HST is as crappy as PST vice versa, at least you have this little efficiency boost.~

We make progress forward. If there's something not good about HST, you fix it. Spending yet another extra bucket of money to move backwards back into an inferior system is just absurd IMO
作者: satil    時間: 2011-6-23 18:45

本帖最後由 satil 於 2011-6-23 18:52 編輯

回復 16# real-mccoy


i understand, lots ppl need see it and "it already proof", that is NOT believe.
for myself, in Canada 25yrs, holding 5 companies, in BC and Alberta, 1 in HK, around 300ppl under payroll.
i know (not believe) HST is better.
i understand the "balance point" will shift. when cost down. or cost up. what make you think the "balance point" with NOT shift after HST?
i told you, i will lower the price to gain market, you think no one will follow? and finally reach a lower "balance point"? really NO ONE ?????

lots ppl will ask "what if NOT" , same i ask "what if YES". use logic and think. "what if NOT" only happen when assume 100% NO ONE start to lower the price. "what if YES" if only one or two start the cycle, then we will have a lower "balance point".  if you are business, you always force your supplier a lower price, you wouldn't be so stupid, not try to cut your cost, right? if they have rooms, will they lower a bit to keep your business. (competition). this is where the cycle begin.
作者: rockypath    時間: 2011-6-24 00:25

Here is my 2 cents.

First, HST is a better taxation system compare to GST & PST.

Second, 10% HST is better than 12% GST & PST. The total amount we pay should be at the same level as the old GST & PST.

Third, we are upset with they way HST was introduced (and Campbell refused to reduce the tax rate when the tax base was enlarged) but not the HST system itself.
作者: rockypath    時間: 2011-6-24 02:10

本帖最後由 rockypath 於 2011-6-24 02:14 編輯

Forgot to mention, the author who wrote the letter is arguing in the style as what a lawyer would argue a case in court - "I only need to find the pitfalls in your statements and prove your case cannot stand but I do not need to prove my own case".

His presentation is entertaining, but it would be an ordinary (or poor) presentation if we expect it to argue from the standpoint of economic.
作者: satil    時間: 2011-6-24 06:09

回復 19# rockypath

"we are upset with they way HST was introduced (and Campbell refused to reduce the tax rate when the tax base was enlarged) but not the HST system itself."

totally agree!
作者: lo_pak    時間: 2011-6-24 06:13

回復 21# satil

Hope general public can distinguish between the two...
作者: soli    時間: 2011-6-24 16:48

連加拿大D會計佬都支持HST﹐唔mind 少左job 做。

http://www.cga-bc.org/latest_news.aspx?id=22194
作者: satil    時間: 2011-6-24 17:08

回復 23# soli

大部份公司都內部自己做pst & gst. 這是一般bookkeeping.
轉用hst分別亦不大.
到cga/ca都唔多關事, 對佢地無太大job既關係.
相信他們純以稅制的結構與好壞提出支持.
作者: Guy    時間: 2011-6-24 20:00

HST vote timing unchanged: Elections BC
http://www.loyaukee.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=22065&extra=
作者: lo_pak    時間: 2011-6-25 12:03

回復 24# satil

Yesterday Kevin Falcon commented he cannot promise to reinstate those PST exempt items if we band HST... , seems like we don't have any choices other than compromise...
作者: satil    時間: 2011-6-25 12:23

我估都係, 佢地最想擴大稅基. 更應減稅率!
作者: lo_pak    時間: 2011-6-25 12:29

本帖最後由 lo_pak 於 2011-6-25 12:37 編輯

回復 27# satil

I am just curious whose the internal brainers for the Liberals, they don't seem to be taxpayers/voters oriented...

BTW, don't claim 老人家 if you are only 39... You still got 21 years (the shortest) before you can claim your pension pay cheque from our lovely government...   hehehe...
作者: satil    時間: 2011-6-25 15:35

回復 28# lo_pak

我唔係39.. 我都想



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