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標題: All season tire advice [打印本頁]

作者: celeron_266 時間: 2011-7-9 21:32 標題: All season tire advice

本帖最後由 celeron_266 於 2011-7-9 21:33 編輯

Hello all,

Background - my car is an 2007 BMW 323i, tire size 205/55R16, 55000km and needs a tire change, all seasons with good wet traction, ideal if it has some capabilities in light snow, V-speed or higher

I will be ordering tires through tire rack and pick up myself at the border
I do not want run flats

Past tire experience (on other cars)
1.  Pilot sport (summer) - awesome tires, love it
2.  Bridgestone Turanzas (Run flats/non-run flats) - loud tires, reasonable traction
3.  Dunlop signature - similar to bridgestones in terms of traction, but significantly quieter
4.  Falken 912 - quiet, good dry traction, but sucks in rain/snow

After some research, I find the following to be pretty good options
1.  Continental ExtremeContact DWS
2.  Goodyear Eagle GT
3.  Hankook Ventus V4 es H105
4.  Kumho Ecsta ASX KU21

I understand that the korean tires (kumho/hankook) are at a completely different price point compared to the Goodyear/continental, I actually am not sure if the extra $20/tire will give me a significant difference in terms of performance.

So...which one should I go for?...or should I consider something else?

thanks in advance!!

作者: pkphilip 時間: 2011-7-10 14:38

I think 5Zigen can give better advise.

Philip

作者: zoids 時間: 2011-7-10 15:29

http://www.nokiantires.com/tyre? ... ;name=Nokian%20WRG2

作者: 閒人一個 時間: 2011-7-10 16:21

Goodyear Eagle GT
only good when new.... i have problem ater 40%.. noisy and non-circle.
may be my car too powerful.. and heavy.

作者: pkphilip 時間: 2011-7-11 16:06

I would recommend the Conti then the Kumho. My buddy's M3 is running the Kumho SPT and he is still spinning out on the rear when he floors it. His old M3 were using the Conti (summer tires), and they didn't spin out as much.

Philip

作者: Catpiano 時間: 2011-7-11 16:09

Nokian all season is good .. ^_^ great on thin ice too ..

作者: Lik 時間: 2011-7-11 16:22

Don't need to think la. If money is not an issue, go with Continential DWS la. This tire is getting rave reviews from everywhere. The only "problem" I have with it is that the tread pattern looks wimpy and ugly. But whatever you do, make sure you buy from Tire Rack, Discount Tire Direct, or whichever other US-based online tire stores. Just have your tires shipped to Point Roberts and you're good to go. It won't even be that expensive la.

Eagle GT is pretty good (for an all season tire) when they are new, but I don't have any experience with them when they are half worn. But I really like their aggressive-looking tread pattern. It's rare for all season tires to have shoulder blocks as meaty and aggressive as the Eagle GT la.

Nokian WRG2 is a good tire too, but then it's more expensive and harder to get.

At the end of the day, you're driving a Bimmer, so she is hopeless in any sort of snowy conditions with all season tires anyway. Why don't you just go with a set of summer tires and slap some winter rubber on from November to February?

-Lik

作者: spoonek4 時間: 2011-7-11 17:40

呢隻呀呵﹖我有朋友試過都幾鐘意...

有冇諗過Toyo Proxes4?? 我渣過黎autocross，果日落好大雨，但套呔都俾到幾多信心我，過puddle果陣冇我想像中skip/hydroplane得咁犀利。

作者: Lik 時間: 2011-7-11 18:16

Aiya... I just looked at some prices, and it is really a no brainer la. The Continental DWS is literally only a few dollars more expensive than the Eagle GT. So if you don't care about looks and want the best performance, you can't go wrong with the Continental DWS. If looks are important, then go for the Eagle GT la.

Toyos Proxes4 are pretty decent too, but it seems to me that fewer places carry them law.

-Lik

作者: celeron_266 時間: 2011-7-11 19:16

本帖最後由 celeron_266 於 2011-7-11 19:27 編輯

Lik: i wish i have cash to get a set of nice BBS for summer tires...sadly i dont have the money yet....
one interesting thing - i was doing some calculations regarding final price of the tire+installation if i do it here in canada compared to getting the tires from tirerack, ship to blaine, pay tax+duty, and find a place to install it....the price difference is actually only about 80 dollars...thats why i am debating if i should just get the tires here in canada.....

spoonek4: yea this one...i will look into the toyos as well then...seems that its only slightly cheaper than the continentals...

one more question: the wheels that i have right now are 7Jx16 and stock tire dimension is 205 55R16, i am wondering if it is possible to change the tire dimension to 225 50R16 and how much handling improvement i will see?

thanks!!

作者: Lik 時間: 2011-7-11 19:45

If you purchase tires locally, don't forget to include the provincial tire recycling levy. I can't remember if it was $5/tire or $10/tire. If you buy from TR, then obviously you skip that la. (I don't think CBSA charges you that.)

BBS are very nice wheels, but they are pretty pricy too. I personally prefer Enkei and OZ because they are a lot more affordable than BBS, and their specs are as good as BBS.

-Lik

作者: celeron_266 時間: 2011-7-11 19:57

本帖最後由 celeron_266 於 2011-7-11 20:06 編輯

sadly i dont even have cash for OZs or enkeis....
i got a quote from a neighbourhood tire store for the DWS - 757 dollars everything included

if i get from tirerack
$106/tire = $424 for four
$56.40 shipping
$59.24 HST
$29.68 duty
Fee for the place at Blaine ~ $20
Installation ~ $80 for four tires
Total ~ $670

so yea...$80 dollar saving....

(I was looking at the tirerack quote if i make them to ship all the way to canada...tirerack will charge the tire levy [$20]...so i am not sure if CBSA will charge it as well)

作者: Lik 時間: 2011-7-11 20:56

DTD is charging $116 each for the DWS, but shipping is already included. So:

$464 tires
$55.68 HST
$27.90 duty
mail depot fee ~$20
installation ~ $80

total ~$650

so ~$110 cheaper la?

Last time when I picked up tires from Pt. Roberts, CBSA didn't charge me duty nor tire levy. I can't say whether charge you for that. But for me, it was just PST/GST (or maybe it was already HST).

-Lik

作者: celeron_266 時間: 2011-7-11 21:18

the duty depends on the origin of the product i think...if the product is made in certain countries...there will be no duty..

ummm...$110 cheaper eh?...maybe i should consider that...

still need to find out if 225/50R16 tires will fit my 7Jx16 wheels nei...

thanks!!!

作者: Lik 時間: 2011-7-11 22:41

You can still mount 225/50/16 on 16x7 wheels, but the tire will bulge out a bit, and sidewall support will be a bit lacking, so steering feel, reaction time will suffer a bit as the car's reaction feels a little more rubbery. For a street car, I wouldn't bother la. Just stick with 205/50/16 bah la.

If you want to use 225/50/16, 16x8 is the size you want, although 16x7.5 would be acceptable as well. But the problem is, 16" is not a popular wheel size. Selection is a lot better with both 15" and 17".

-Lik

作者: celeron_266 時間: 2011-7-11 23:41

本帖最後由 celeron_266 於 2011-7-11 23:47 編輯

7Jx16 wheels with 205/55/16 tires (323i no sport package)
[attach]11537[/attach]

7Jx16 wheels with 225/50/16 tires (323i sport package)
[attach]11538[/attach]

i guess pretty hard to see the oversize tire bulging at this view...

作者: celeron_266 時間: 2011-7-11 23:55

quoting from http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible_pg4.html

A rim that is too narrow in relation to the tyre width will allow the tyre to distort excessively sideways under fast cornering. On the other hand, unduly wide rims on an ordinary car tend to give rather a harsh ride because the sidewalls have not got enough curvature to make them flex over bumps and potholes.

so mr. lik i think you are correct, the distortion of the tires basically cancels the positive effect of the increased footprint from the wider tires, resulting in no increase in cornering ability....

作者: satil 時間: 2011-7-16 11:53

use Yokohama Avid Enviger V for summer and Nokian WRG2 for winter here.
no 'real' all season good in SNOW.

作者: Lik 時間: 2011-7-16 21:26

so mr. lik i think you are correct, the distortion of the tires basically cancels the positive effect of the increased footprint from the wider tires, resulting in no increase in cornering ability....
celeron_266 發表於 2011-7-11 23:55

Minor correction here:

When you go with a wider tire on the same car, the contact patch doesn't necessarily increase in size. However, the shape of the contact patch will change. The thing to keep in mind is that the contact patch is dependent on both the tire size and just as importantly, the weight of the vehicle. In Celeron's case, the vehicle weight change is, for all practical purposes, negligible regardless of whether a 205/55/16 or 225/50/16 tire is used. Since the vehicle weight is the same, the pressure on the tire is the same. With a narrower tire, the contact patch is gonna be longer and skinner (narrower). With a wider tire, the contact patch is gonna be shorter but fatter (wider). So the shape of the contact patch changes, but it is not clear which contact patch has a larger overall area. What would happen though is, the narrower tire should actually have a better longitudinal acceleration (accelerating in a straight line) but poorer lateral acceleration (turning). The reverse would be true with a fatter tire.

Essentially, it's a tradeoff between longitudinal acceleration vs lateral acceleration.

-Lik

作者: celeron_266 時間: 2011-7-16 23:26

i am starting to think with all these precision analyses...they may apply to racing conditions...but everyday use..even with spirited driving style...it wont really make a difference....

作者: Lik 時間: 2011-7-17 08:40

If you pay attention to how your car responses when you are behind the wheels, then yes, you will notice a difference. If you enjoy spirited drives, then yes, you will notice them. If you track your gas milage, then you will also notice a few percents' worth of differences. Heck, whenever my car gets an oil change done, I notice the minute difference in my car's throttle response and smoothness too.

But if you are a typical Richmond C9, then ha, you probably won't notice it la~

-Lik

作者: celeron_266 時間: 2011-7-17 14:07

Minor correction here:

When you go with a wider tire on the same car, the contact patch doesn't ne ...
Lik 發表於 2011-7-16 21:26

this probably applies to when there is equal sidewall support for both tire widths, but like you said in a previous post, i only have one set of tires (7Jx16), and putting 225mm tires into 7in wheels will reduce sidewall support for a bit, resulting in tire deformation during turning, how will this counteract the increased lateral acceleration provided from the wider tires?

作者: Lik 時間: 2011-7-17 15:55

Stock class autox-ers regularly run the widest possible tire they can find on their stock-sized wheels, and these guys are the ones who care the most about lateral grip. So you can expect the 225 tire to have more ultimate lateral grip than the 205 even though the sidewall support is poorer. On the other hand, you should also expect poorer steering response (more vague, greater delay as there is more sidewall flex in the tires) from the wider tire.

Either will be fine for street use, but I wouldn't bother with the 225 tire since the 205 tire will be cheaper.

But seriously, on the street, I'd rather have sharper steering response since you would rarely need the slightly higher grip levels of the wider tire anyway.

-Lik

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