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標題: Beware of tax matter when buying The RedPocket deals!!! [打印本頁]

作者: FiChai 時間: 2011-11-30 18:08 標題: Beware of tax matter when buying The RedPocket deals!!!

There could be different calculation on tax and gratuity on different group deals, but it should be clearly written on the terms and/or fine print on individual deal.

I experienced that tax has being charged on the original price instead of the discounted voucher value. In which I doubt it's a regular and legal practice. I emailed RedPocket for further clarification, and they replied me that their voucher acts as gift cards, so of course tax is calculated based on the original price. IMPOV, "discounted voucher" is different from "gift card".
For example, I use a $5 valued gift card plus $5 cash to buy a $10 item. Tax will be calculated based on $10. If I use a 50% off promotional coupon particularly for that item, then what I need to pay for tax is calculated based on $5 but not $10.

I tried to give out my reason, but they didn't explain anything further and is going to offer me a full refund. To get back my money is one thing, but I'm worrying they will get into much bigger trouble if they wrongfully charge excessive tax on customers.

作者: ricrick 時間: 2011-11-30 19:05

usually tax and gratuity are calculated on original price. it has no doubt. but this kind of group buy thing usually mark up the original price

作者: FiChai 時間: 2011-11-30 23:00

No, usually tax is on whatever amount paid on the voucher value; but gratuity is on the original price. Tax system is different to gratuity. Tax is based on the actual amount people paid. For example, the original price of a pack of coke was $6, now with the 50% discount coupon, you only need to pay $3. Do you think tax should be calculated on $6 or $3?
Another example, the idea of gratuity/tips is an expression (in money) of the appreciation for what the server did for you, even you may have a discount on the food you consumed, the work of the server didn't reduced, so the normal calculation of gratuity/tips is still based on the original food price.

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2011-12-1 08:54

i've seen both cases but either way the diff is either $1 or $2, who freaking cares?

作者: Nam 時間: 2011-12-1 10:13

It should be tax on original price...I think

作者: Nam 時間: 2011-12-1 10:14

They sell it to you at discount price but it is entered as original price, so the machine will calculate it as orignal price...

I think the coupon to the vendor is a marketing write off, on the book, they still record it as an original price......., so they still have to pay the orignal tax payable to government...

作者: 吳孟達 時間: 2011-12-1 10:16

Time to talk to your accountant

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2011-12-1 10:35

talk to your accountant for a fxxking $1
they would laugh at what a freaking cheap ass you are

作者: 吳孟達 時間: 2011-12-1 10:42

In Canada, $1 is $1 haha..
If not, why people bother to use coupons in grocery shopping...

From what FiChai said, it is not a money matter, it is a matter of if someone is proceeding with wrong calculation for a business.

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2011-12-1 12:50

the fact is you are already getting a good deal out of those half price coupons
don't try to squeeze every single dime

作者: FiChai 時間: 2011-12-1 13:13

Very interesting, I didn't expect people would not care about a store/company wrongfully calculated on tax matter (or how about wrongfully calculated on the total bill, tips..etc?).
When you are talking about your own $1 or $2, think of the company sold 1000 or 2000 coupons, then they are grabbing $1000 to $4000 more than they should be! If you are a bank teller, at the end of the day your transaction record sheet is not balance for only 1 cent, you can't get off and walk out the door!

May I give another example, base on the concept some of you folks said above:
The original price of a product was $1000, now with the coupon you only need to pay $10. Therefore, you have to pay tax on $1000 plus the $10, total $130. Is that what you think?

If the company charge it like that, means they have to take out the balance of $900 from their own pocket into the company's draw, then submit the tax to the government, reporting that they have $1000 revenue. They can't report that they charged $120 tax but their actual revenue is only $10. The "missing" $900 is not even exist.

I wish I can run a business like that, in order to grab tons of "false monies" from customers who is not too familiar and care about calculation. I'll be super rich. LOL

作者: FiChai 時間: 2011-12-1 13:23

In Canada, $1 is $1 haha..
If not, why people bother to use coupons in grocery shopping...

From wha ...
吳孟達發表於 2011-12-1 10:42

Yes, that's my thought.

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2011-12-1 15:09

Very interesting, I didn't expect people would not care about a store/company wrongfully calculated ...
FiChai 發表於 2011/12/1 13:13

it depends on whether you view the coupon as a "gift card" or a price reduction

if a price reduction, then you charge tax on only the reduced amount
if you view it as a "gift card", then the gift card can only be applied after the full tax is charged

there's no clear law that says whether a coupon is a gift card or a price reduction
as long as the company submits whatever tax they charge you to the gov and not keeping it themselves, they are doing the right thing.

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2011-12-1 15:15

Very interesting, I didn't expect people would not care about a store/company wrongfully calculated ...
FiChai 發表於 2011/12/1 13:13

and no, i don't care how they charge as long as I think it's a good deal to me.

how much they make from all other customers is no concern to me. All I care is whether i am getting a good deal.

作者: FiChai 時間: 2011-12-1 16:07

it depends on whether you view the coupon as a "gift card" or a price reduction

if a price reduct ...
快樂牛郎發表於 2011-12-1 15:09

It's not how I "view" it, it is its original concept and the way to use. As for "gift card", basically I can use it on whatever available item/product/service in stock, such as I can use it to buy a pack of juice, or a box of chocolate, or a pound of beef. But for a discounted coupon, it's only for the particular item/product/service, it can not be replaced or substitute to any other kind of item/product/service. That means, if the specific item is a pack of coke, I can't redeem it to a load of bread, even their price is the same. I'm surprised people would get it confused.

作者: FiChai 時間: 2011-12-1 16:12

and no, i don't care how they charge as long as I think it's a good deal to me.

how much they mak ...
快樂牛郎發表於 2011-12-1 15:15

As long as the deal is good, if the restaurant wrongfully charge you a 13% of tax instead of 12%, and the 1% difference is only talking about 50 cents, some people might think it's ok, but sorry, that's not me. It's not about how much the amount is, it's about the principle. Many people may not check every single bill they paid too, that's why many vendors are putting more money into their pockets, hahaha.....!
That's why I see if a thief is only stealing a $1 value item at a dollar store, cops will let him go. Cause they think: "Hey, he's only stealing $1 but not $1 million!".

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2011-12-1 16:55

if you go steal a $1 item now i doubt you will get jailed or booked
they will just give you a verbal warning

materiality matters everywhere

作者: FiChai 時間: 2011-12-1 19:50

if you go steal a $1 item now i doubt you will get jailed or booked
they will just give you a verbal ...
快樂牛郎發表於 2011-12-1 16:55

The spirit of law is, there is no minimum limit that if you steal less than $10 you're not guilty but if you steal more than $10.01 then you're guilty. How to carry out suitable punishment is another story.

I agree to seek for professional accounting assistant for an official answer. But it's not the role of a customer, it should be the vendor to find out and explain to their customers. I will be free of trouble in this matter, it's the vendor needs to submit revenue report to the city/government every fiscal year. It's them to have the problem. If they get into any trouble and need to fold down the business for further investigation, then the unused vouchers still on customers hands will still be valid or not, that part I dunno.

作者: FiChai 時間: 2011-12-1 19:53

Actually my intention is to "warn" our folks to beware of the tax matter they charge differently than usual, because it's not clearly written on the terms nor fine print. In case any folk bought it and didn't notice, then please don't surprise. If any folk is planning to buy any voucher in the future, please check the terms and make sure you understand and satisfy with everything before you make a purchase.

作者: Look4chrisng 時間: 2011-12-2 11:28

Both way of calculating HST could be correct, depending of the type of coupon.

Reimbursable coupons: full HST before discount where sellers are reimbursed the discount by manufacturers.

Non-reimbursable coupons: Sellers are eating the discount difference, so buyers pay HST on price after the discount.

Got it?

作者: Look4chrisng 時間: 2011-12-2 11:33

回復 17# 快樂牛郎

There is a lax attitude on tax compliance among Canadian, until they are in trouble with the CRA.

Americans are way more careful on taxes in general, even criminals file tax returns carefully. Thanks for their big boss Al Capone.

作者: FiChai 時間: 2011-12-2 20:35

Both way of calculating HST could be correct, depending of the type of coupon.

Reimbursable coupons ...
Look4chrisng 發表於 2011-12-2 11:28

Yes, that's what I mentioned above too. Only if the seller/vendor eats the difference of the cost, and report the whole revenue to the city/government, then the tax should be calculated on the original full amount. However, the buyer/customer still only needs to pay for the discounted portion, it's the seller/vendor to pay for the rest part, then submit to the city in full. Customer has no responsibility to pay for the "unseen" part.

作者: Look4chrisng 時間: 2011-12-2 23:49

本帖最後由 Look4chrisng 於 2011-12-2 23:52 編輯

回復 22# FiChai

Fichai:  If you go to buy a new canon 5D marked II and pay with a collectible baseball card.  How do you CRA calculate HST?

Plus you don't know how Groupon pays the vendor.  Whatever it is, the value vendor receives has to be higher than the face value of the groupon. (I reckon the vendor receives the face value of the Groupon AND some marketing services.  So $50 group on could be $55 or whatever CRA deems.

The vendors/groupon should can go to court to agree.  But not everyone wants the trouble, nor the vendor cares as HST is always wash for them anyway.

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2011-12-3 07:55

Whatever it is, the value vendor receives has to be higher than the face value of the groupon.

Groupon is a charity service?

作者: blowfish 時間: 2011-12-27 00:47

Groupon is a charity service?

Are u kidding? Is not, is going for IPO pretty soon.

作者: Look4chrisng 時間: 2012-1-6 21:29

Groupon is a charity service?
快樂牛郎發表於 2011-12-3 07:55

So the vendor will be reimbursed for something less the $50 out of the deal, or vendors pay an up front fee to Groupon. Don't know where this charity thing coming from.

作者: FiChai 時間: 2012-1-7 13:19

Again:
1. original price was $100, with coupon you only need to pay $10. Total you need to pay should be $10 + $12 (tax on the original $100)= $22
2. original price was $100, with coupon you only need to pay $10. Total you need to pay should be $10 + $1.2 (tax on the coupon price $10) = $11.2

To be honest to yourself, as a customer, which is making more sense to you?

作者: 快樂牛郎 時間: 2012-1-7 18:58

So the vendor will be reimbursed for something less the $50 out of the deal, or vendors pay a ...
Look4chrisng 發表於 2012/1/6 21:29

"Plus you don't know how Groupon pays the vendor. Whatever it is, the value vendor receives has to be higher than the face value of the groupon."

The vendor gets paid 50% of the money you pay to groupon. So a $25 for $50 groupon gives the vendor $12.50.

作者: Look4chrisng 時間: 2012-1-7 21:39

回復 27# FiChai

As a business owner, how do you like CRA send you a bill for $10.08 plus interest and penalty when you are audited? GST People are not funny, they are know to put businesses out of business.

Avalon Dairy here in vancouver was sued for back taxes for GST on Bottle deposits. It nearly put them out of business.

作者: FiChai 時間: 2012-1-7 22:05

回復 FiChai

As a business owner, how do you like CRA send you a bill for $10.08 plus interest an ...
Look4chrisng 發表於 2012-1-7 21:39

You didn't answer my question directly, as a customer's role.

作者: Look4chrisng 時間: 2012-1-7 22:35

回復 30# FiChai

then, it doesn't make sense.

作者: FiChai 時間: 2012-1-7 23:11

回復 FiChai

then, it doesn't make sense.
Look4chrisng 發表於 2012-1-7 22:35

Did you mean scenario 1 or 2 doesn't make sense?

作者: Look4chrisng 時間: 2012-1-7 23:59

no.1, ok ok

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