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標題: Will you guys relocate somewhere else because of the crazy house price lately? [打印本頁]
作者: utopia    時間: 2008-5-15 11:48     標題: Will you guys relocate somewhere else because of the crazy house price lately?

I've been going to different open houses or show home with my brother lately and I'm totally sick of the price and the quality of the houses in Vancouver...

Especially, after I viewed the overall housing market in US; I'm thinking should I have an alternate plan in mind.

Would you guys pick China  or US?

I have been discussing with caveman about moving to somewhere else; we both love Vancouver but the living cost is very expensive. If an EA programmer (supervisor level) cannot afford to buy a house, then what about us???

I totally not interested in GZ except the $$$. Probably Seattle??  But I also worry about safety, is it really that bad to live in the state? How about Texas?
or the small towns in the states?

Basically, I'm not so worry about my own career as I confirmed with the GM, I can trasfer to other offices if I wanted. They have offices around the world, so either I picked HK, GZ or the states; I can easily be transfer but I just worry about the living condition and overall safety (since it seems like everybody have a gun with them in the states and people are more aggressive)
作者: Traum    時間: 2008-5-15 11:56

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作者: winkyl    時間: 2008-5-15 12:21

When I was in Chicago for my business trip approx 3months ago, I had a good talk with my fellows co-workers over there. In Chicago downtown area, the housing is similar to Vancouver DT's price. But then when living a little more south away from the downtown area (I guess it's similar situation like living in poco, langley area instead), it's much cheaper and actually affordable. Consider my job working in Vancouver getting the exact same amount (I get paid in cdn, and they get paid in usd), income is pretty much the same (before tax that's it). But the living cost down there are just way cheaper compare to Vancouver. E.G. gas down there $3.19usd/gallon, while vancouver was at $1.2cdn/L, car insurance for full coverage 07 corvette down there cost my co-worker $1200/yr with 30% discount, while my POS miata here cost almost $1500 for 43% discount here. Not to mention a 07 corvette insurance in BC will cost probly like over $2k even with 43% discount? Housing, the area that I stay (approx 45min away from downtown) cost around 300k usd (average size house), I doubt anyone in Vancouver and in bby can find a average size house for 300k cdn? (I'm talking about a house that's ready to move in and live without lots of work needed to be done)

Seriously, I did thought about moving/relocated myself somewhere before. But like Lik said, Vancouver probably is the best city to live in the world (beside the living cost)

I think chobit (Eddy) probably can tell you more about his life down in the states much better than myself here.
作者: utopia    時間: 2008-5-15 12:23

I dunno, the house price in Vancouver is absolutely over-price way too much.  

The high rise 1 bedroom + den at my complex is asking for $498,500.00..... cannot imagine if I ask for a two bedroom + den...

Well, we want a house because of caveman's mom.  If she lives with us in the future, we want out own privacy. The only solution is to buy a small house.

But the average price within Burnaby is 710,000 + for a
crappy house that can move in. The lowest would be 699,900 for a super crappy house that you need to throw in 100,000.00 to renovated it into a livable condition.............  

So in average, it will cost at least 800,000 for a decent house.

And house average price will raise to 950,000 in 2009....................
作者: Alcoholic    時間: 2008-5-15 12:23

Twin,
we are eye-ing some townhouses in ditchmond. the first phase is sold out 95%, but we will wait for the 2nd phase to start selling...
1300 sq ft starts 450K
1600 sq ft about 580K
we like the floor plan, it's nice. & it's new. wouldn't it be better for you to get a NEW small townhome rather than a small OLD crappy house?
let's find time to go look at display homes together! maybe we can be neighbours in the future too! hahaha

[ 本帖最後由 Alcoholic 於 2008-5-15 12:26 編輯 ]
作者: kaimui22    時間: 2008-5-15 12:31

I think it really depends on what you're asking for...if you want a decent house with 2+ bedrooms and 2+ washrooms close to the city centre, it will cost you for sure. But are you willing to travel a bit and away from Vancouver/Burnaby? You can still get large houses in Surrey for a lot less than the prices in Richmond/BBY/Van.

Another thing to consider is...if you are thinking of moving to the states, have you considered how much healthcare will cost you? Here, most employers cover MSP..even if they don't, it only costs about $100 a month for a family of 3. In the states, if you have to go to the hospital or doctors for any reason, the fees are astonishing. I think the average price of having a baby in a hospital in the states of anywhere from $5000USD to $20000USD. Not to mention any administrative fees, document fees..etc

Although the cost of living might be high in Vancouver, you also have to consider if you are will to sacrifice your own standard of living to adjust to your income. If you are not willing to lower your standards or move a bit further or get an older house...then of course Vancouver is not the place for you.
作者: utopia    時間: 2008-5-15 12:32

hey you~~

So you figure out how to display Chinese probably on your comp??
hahaha

That's feel so funny, we are in the same office and both on LYK ~~
作者: Traum    時間: 2008-5-15 12:37

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作者: utopia    時間: 2008-5-15 12:57

原帖由 Alcoholic 於 2008-5-15 12:23 發表
Twin,
we are eye-ing some townhouses in ditchmond. the first phase is sold out 95%, but we will wait for the 2nd phase to start selling...
1300 sq ft starts 450K
1600 sq ft about 580K
we like the flo ...


Ditchmond??
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2008-5-15 13:35

I doubt anyone in Vancouver and in bby can find a average size house for 300k cdn?

LOL...for 300k you can't even buy a decent 2 bedroom condo here...

And 300k for a house, you're looking at maybe Sunshine Coast, Prince George, etc....LOL

Sometimes I question myself if Vancouver is really worth the living cost!!!  Yes, it's a very nice city, but I think there are major political views that will get us in trouble in the long run, in addition to the insane affordability.  Even with high health care cost in US, I think they're more "wealthy" than we are!
作者: MyOMy    時間: 2008-5-15 13:42

Chinese is no longer Chinese after 60 years of plotical indoctrination and 20 years of extreme merchantilism. I may be oversimply things, but won't think of myself living in such a soceity as China nowadays. If you feel comfortable about that, you may be in parardise.

US is a big country, there are regional difference. Generally speaking, you earn more in the north east and pacific west (except Oregon) but people are impatient and they won't give you the time of the day. Anything in between, you earn less but people are nicer (except some reknown red neck states)and you don't have good Chinese food.

In the long term, housing price will be increasing excpet the economy is declining. You don't want to see that day right. For Vancouver, from all the years I spent here. The house price is cycling. But one cycle is higher than the last cycle. That is like  SPIKE - PLATEAU - DROP 10 TO 30% - RISE - SPIKE.....  

So, if you are in Vancouver for the long term, you can pick any time to buy a house as long as you are not in for the short term. Id you trust your own instinct, pick the time when the market is down 10 to 30%. My neighbour brought his house in 1967 for 18,000 is now worth 800,000 just the land. That is quite good for his retirement if he relocates to an apartment.  Vancouver and Canada needs you, man. OR my retiremnt pesnion will run out before I can get to it.

Oh, for Ditchmond. If you are scarce of earthquake, don't live there. Anywhere in Ditchmond you dig 3 feet you find water. Some people using the term "vaporize" to visualize the after earthquake effect.
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2008-5-15 13:59

18k to 800k in 40 years isn't that much...10% compound interest anually from 18k to 800k is possible.  However, half of the current housing price was added in the last 4 years or so.  To bring 400k from 18k in 36 yrs you need about 9% return, but if you want to double your principal in 4 yrs, you need about 19% return each year.

So average of 9% vs 19%, you get the idea of how crazy the housing market is.
作者: Traum    時間: 2008-5-15 14:08

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作者: SAZABI    時間: 2008-5-15 14:28

原帖由 MyOMy 於 2008-5-15 13:42 發表
Oh, for Ditchmond. If you are scarce of earthquake, don't live there. Anywhere in Ditchmond you dig 3 feet you find water. Some people using the term "vaporize" to visualize the after earthquake effect.


hee... not sure about other stuffs you said, but this is techincally incorrect.
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2008-5-15 14:44

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-5-15 14:08 發表

Dont' calculate it like that la, ShutterBug. You need to factor in your living cost as well ga mah. If you didn't plunge the cash down for the house 40 years ago, where are you gonna live, and how mu ...

AFAIK, saving up for a down payment 40 yrs ago is easier than it is in Vancouver now.
作者: B2L2    時間: 2008-5-15 15:12

原帖由 utopia 於 2008-5-15 11:48 發表
If an EA programmer (supervisor level) cannot afford to buy a house, then what about us???


EA on record isn't a good paid company, but a senior SE will have 6 digits.  If he has good saving to start with, it isn't hard to afford a house be honest.  Question is whether he likes to pay that much on mortgage.  More like whether mentally could afford than money-wise.
作者: utopia    時間: 2008-5-15 15:19

Well, Vancouver will always my final destination. Honestly, I like Vancouver, not too bad and not too small with variety of foods and entertainment but... like shutterbug said, it's too hard to save for the down payment....

My alternate plan in my mind is make some dollars elsewhere, then come back to Vancouver when the housing drop....

ai... I dunno, even a 45K 1300 sq ft town house in Richmond is still over-price...

I'm not sure about you guys but we don't have financial support from parents. That's mean other than paying for monthly mortgage, we have to save for our down payment on our own too....
and I only started to work for two years and just got a stable income job...

On top of that, I have to pay for my cont' study in school ... just think of those numbers make dizzy......

[ 本帖最後由 utopia 於 2008-5-15 15:21 編輯 ]
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2008-5-15 15:51

Even with 100k income, unless you have a substantial amount of down payment, owning a house here is still impossible.  Each 100k mortgage for 20 or so years is about $700 per month, a house here now is around 800k, you can do the math.

I think most of you are still young...think when you want to start a family and have kids!  
作者: chobit    時間: 2008-5-15 16:48

Well.. u better do more research my friend.

Public health Care system sucks here in The US, but you probably don't want that..!  As for private insurance.., if you have a decent job, the cost of insurance is ok.

My wife & I + the baby are currently paying approx. $200US/month for our dental/health + some additional insurance like disability, etc..!

The extra cost comes from what they call co-pay, since not everything has 100% coverage!

I had an eye surgery which cost more than $20,000, but we paid less than $900.  For our baby.  It cost about $500 at the hospital, another $100 for all the Dr. appointments before the baby delivered, and probably another $50 for the sessions on learning how breast feed..!

In case u don't know, I used to live in Vancouver, but now live in Seattle.  Personally, I would love to come back to Vancouver.  Only if cost of living can be lowered including housing, gloceries, while income goes up abit more...!

We simply net alot more $$$ here in the US than it is in Canada...!

My final goal is to come back to Vancouver when we have enough money to purchase a house.  But we'll see...!

原帖由 kaimui22 於 2008-5-15 12:31 發表
I think it really depends on what you're asking for...if you want a decent house with 2+ bedrooms and 2+ washrooms close to the city centre, it will cost you for sure. But are you willing to travel a  ...
作者: chobit    時間: 2008-5-15 16:53

dig 3 feet you find water..., can u tell me where this come from??  I did some intensive research about this few years ago..., and it doesn't sound as scary as the rumors..!

EL

原帖由 MyOMy 於 2008-5-15 13:42 發表
Chinese is no longer Chinese after 60 years of plotical indoctrination and 20 years of extreme merchantilism. I may be oversimply things, but won't think of myself living in such a soceity as China no ...
作者: fibbi    時間: 2008-5-15 17:03

There are some older houses (30-40yrs old) in richmond still selling for 400-500K. And Around 2000 sq ft.
But with 100K annual income, probably about $5000/month to take home after tax.
I would feel comfortable if put $2500-$2800/month for mortgage. And of course...use up some saved RRSP for first time home buyer...then I think should be able to manage to get a house.
Is house price expensive? Yes...but it won't make me leaving Vancouver lor...
If move to US, medical expense could be huge. And Vancouver people generally are more friendly...
And most important for me, I can still enjoy very close HK living style here...lots of good Chinese food...
作者: Ultraman    時間: 2008-5-15 19:36

Some people including realtors say the house price keep increasing abnormally because of the up coming winter Olympics. Price should/would drop down to normal eventually. Since house price is like a seasonal up and down, I definitely won't consider a move all because of this. How if you move to Seattle and the house price goes up later but on the other hand house price goes down in Vancouver?! You move again and again? If you can't afford to buy a house (or a "home") here for the time being, I don't see renting is not an option lor!
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2008-5-15 22:08

Do a search on mls.ca la...you can hardly HARDLY find a house that's 500K or under and ONLY 30-40 yrs old!!!

The search came out with 7 listings, one of them is a "floating house", one is a 7xx sq ft 54 yrs old house, two are 99 yrs old 1500 sq ft houses, one is 95x sq ft 65 yrs old, one is OK 1600 sq ft  25 yrs old, last one is OK as well 1700 sq ft 45 yrs old.  According to your requirements, you can either live in the floating house, or the 7xx sq ft house, or your last choice but best looking one, which is the 1600 sq ft 25 yrs old house.  So for an average person, you only have one choice!

$2800 for mortgage alone and only with 5k per month take home is pretty crazy...in addition to mortgage, there are tons of bills you need to pay...prop tax, hydro, gas, repair/maint, insurance, phone, internet, etc...those can easily add up close to 1k for a small place.  So each month you're only left with 1200 bucks!  Great!  If you own a car (not lease or finance), then add approx $500 per month for insurance, gas, depreciation, repairs...and you're left with 700 bucks!  Minus all the cost of living like food, clothing, entertainment, etc...you could be in debt!!!  And don't forget you're in a very high salary range amongst the entire population in Vancouver

like choit said, people in US are wealthier than we are even with the high cost of health care because most companies provide health insurance.  200/month for insurance with extend health care is a good deal!  I pay almost that amount too here with my company benefits but I make less than people in the US and cost of living is much higher!
作者: whitecho    時間: 2008-5-15 22:36

I don't know that was a stupid move or dump move. I moved down from Calgary couple years ago. Honestly, the quality of life in Vancouver cannot compare with Calgary. But I really can't afford the house.

Maybe I should go to some crazy places, like Iraq or something like that, to work for few years. Come back and put a big down payment on the table and buy a decent house.

Sigh...The best place on the earth.
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2008-5-15 22:41

I had a collegue who worked in Iraq/Iran doing military stuff before.  He was from TW and he worked there as an engineer for a few years...he said it's not worth it because he has to "wear grass" from time to time because the enemies would track you down!  So, no free lunch la...
作者: utopia    時間: 2008-5-16 08:26

ai... you guys sounds like the argument in my head haha... I've been debating with myself that rather I should stay in Vancouver or not with all the reasons you guys provide too.....

I thought about renting a place too, is it really an option too? Given renting is not cheap in Vancouver either.... renting a house probably 2000+? That's enough to pay mortgage....

ai... I wish it's only me and caveman, so we don't have to struggle... because we can easily buy a one bedroom apartment or even a studio.....

argh~~ Everything will be easier if his mom is willing to go back China to live since they have two property in China; she can simply live in one of the  apartment and rent out the other~~~!~!!~

ai.......................
作者: Alcoholic    時間: 2008-5-16 08:46

Twin,
my hubby's mom's house is like 2000ish sq ft, 20 years old in richmond. the market price for that is 600ishK   that's why i suggested you to take a look at new smaller town houses, rather than thinking to buy a mid size house that's super old~

but with the amount of $ that us small potatoes are making, maybe it's better off for you & caveman to just rent a place to live with his mom... and save up for down payment for a few years sin lor.

besides, we both know that caveman's mom is already giving you guys pressure about living with you guys, i don't think it's a wise idea to get her hopes up about buying a home... she might expect something which might add to more pressure on you guys.

maybe consider taking it slowly for now... at least save up $ to get married sin lor. then save up for a house. then save up for a BABY

and about the relocation...
first of all, it costs alot to move to the states or back to hk. so it'll just add to your burden. i don't know about the states, but moving back to hk? are you sh!tting me?!?! you sure you want to work 6 days a week, OT everyday?! and places in hk are just as expensive, but at LEAST 1/2 the size for the same price here! now how is caveman's mom gonna live with you guys then?! it will probably drive you nuts! food can be cheaper, but transportation ain't that much cheaper. plus, you'll spend LOADS of $ on all the convenient clothes & makeup that you see everyday. besides, like what we discussed yesterday... we don't really need to dress up for work here. but in HK?! you probably need a new wardrobe every season, AND worse of all: DEAL WITH UNLIMITED BITCHES

stay here la.... for ME!!! wahahaha

[ 本帖最後由 Alcoholic 於 2008-5-16 08:51 編輯 ]
作者: kaimui22    時間: 2008-5-16 08:59

are you sure his mom is going to stay in Vancouver PERMANENTLY? Or just temporary? Because if she is just staying temporary..might not be a bad idea to just rent a place or get a 2 or 3 bedroom townhouse. Maybe she's just here to wait for you guys to settle and get married? Once you guys are settled, she might just go back to China and let you guys have 二人世界.

I don't think it's a good idea to buy a big house (2000+ sq) right now because what if you guys move in, get married and then she gets bored of vancouver and decides to move back to China in 2 or 3 years? Is it worth putting yourself thru so much stress and such a high mortgage if she isn't gonna be here to live in the space?

Also...has your Caveman discussed the situation with his mom? Maybe she is willing to contribute a bit if you guys are getting a bigger place for her? Also try to make sure from her if she is definitely sure she will stay in vancouver for a long time..otherwise, it's no use getting such a big place for her and then have her leave.
作者: utopia    時間: 2008-5-16 09:02

LOL, Twin, you are hilarious~~~

I just passed by and you have a very serious face LOL... and now I understand where that serious face come from ~~~~ hahaha putting a serious face and type this reply for me ~~~ haahhahahaha

Anyways, hey, you really read my mind. I was searching townhouses on mls this morning.

Perhaps, a townhouse might be an option... but most townhouse within my range in Burnaby is all about 800 - 970 sq ft. Now now now, twin, I start to think my home actually big ~~

The more I think about it, the more I really want his mom just move back to China... put aside the housing problem... but also her personality...

Just like yesterday, I told caveman... if we are in China or the states, that guy would have just come and beat us up....

We went out for dinner last night and his mom comment so loud that the kid next table is so loud and cry every 3 second....and I saw the dad was staring at her.. (and obviously, he either looks like from China country side or gangster looking).....
Then, his mom talk so publicly ...and asked the waitress did the hostess hook up with the owner.. I mean, WTF, you are gossiping in the restaurant and gossiping with the restaurant's waitress??? and the waitress already try to avoid the topic..and she just won't let go.... I just hope the waitress will be ok because she was "forced" to comment by caveman's mom....while her co-workers was around......

I just want to "puke blood" last night.......
作者: utopia    時間: 2008-5-16 09:12

原帖由 kaimui22 於 2008-5-16 08:59 發表
are you sure his mom is going to stay in Vancouver PERMANENTLY? Or just temporary? Because if she is just staying temporary..might not be a bad idea to just rent a place or get a 2 or 3 bedroom townho ...


ai... kaimui, we both wish his mom will stay temporary, and most likely, 99% his mom will STICK WITH US no matter what........ai......

His mom is single parent but with very very problematic personality....

(a recent example is I put a comb at his washroom so I can use my own...it's a very crappy one that I used since high school. I didn't know she was using my comb every single time now until caveman told me to bring it home because his mom keep using it without washing it.. ... and it's not like his mom dun has her own, in fact, her is way better than my old crappy one....AND when caveman ask her why she is using mine... she INSISTS, that's HER comb not mine......and when caveman keep telling her why can't she use her own, then she claim she has a similar one in her house.....Little things like that lor, she won't admit she did something wrong and switch the blame on others or directly said it's others fault......)

Her mom swear on god sooooo many times in the past that she won't live with caveman after he get married for the past 10 years.... NOT UNTIL, caveman intentionally live with me for 3 months while my parents were gone to HK... she started to feel the loneness...and start from hinting to live with us.....to a point that caveman can't stand anymore and ask her directly.... and she said she wants to stay with him........ Before we clarify that..., her mom's behavior and personality changed dramatically, that we thought we can possibly live with her..... but sadly, after the confirmation from us, she.......just .... switch back her own personality and..perhaps, worse....?
作者: MyOMy    時間: 2008-5-16 10:55

To  Sazabi and Chobit.

Sorry I don’t meant to scarce anyone other than poking a little fun for discussion.  I aint no geologist, I don’t know about “technically”, but it is absolutely politically incorrect. When I wrote, my mind flashed an image of a ditch in back I was shopping for a house in Richmond. It was a ditch with water 3 feet below in a perfect sunny day.  Also I wrongly used the term “vaporize”, it should be “liquefaction”. The City of Richmond web said it is no biggy. City of Richmond got to say what City of Richmond got to say. No government official webs deny the possibilities and effect of liquefaction. The risk is minimal but there is always some lucky fellow gets the 649 jackpot. Typical household insurance covers only the building, not the land. Suppose Richmond is flooded and buildings collapse after quake, what it does to land value? Nobody can say for sure. If there is good deal, it may be worthwhile to take the risk. Richmond is a joyful place to live after all.
作者: MyOMy    時間: 2008-5-16 11:13

Utopia,

You are funny. I luckily have a mother in law don't talk too loud and she only bitch at her daughter. Besides she takes care of my children.


To Shutterbug,

For the housing investment calculation. That is assume you don’t have 18,000 back then, you just have the down payment.  Suppose there is a 40 years mortgage (not in real life). You mortgage the whole proceed with 9%, you pay approx. $140 a month for 40 years. You got to live in the house for 40 years.  By the end of the 40 years, you still can sell the house for 800,000.  I myself will be happy if I can get 400,000 for it.  

So, one should try your best come up with some sort of downpayment.
作者: SAZABI    時間: 2008-5-16 11:21

Dear MyOMy,

1. The ground water table surely has sth to do with liquefaction (yes, you used the right term for that effect under earthquake).  However, the main thing would be the soil condition encountered on site.  For example, if you get a till-like material in the ground with water table just 0.5 m below the ground surface, I don't think you will get liquefaction under this case.  There are lots of places in greater vancouver with shallow water table, not only richmond.

2. Of course no government will deny the possibility.  I wouldn't say that the risk is minimal.  Even the site just next to the new skating ring (currently under construction) will have liquefaction problem under the right earthquake (yes, liquefaction doesn't not occur in every earthquake, it depends on the magnitude as well).  However, this problem can be treated if you know the site condition before hand.  If you pay enough attention, you should see a lot of sites being pre-loaded, or doing vibro compaction in Richmond prior to actual construction.

3. Even if liquefaction occurs for certain area in Richmond (not the whole richmond will undergo liquefaction).  It doesn't mean that the land will not be suitable anything in the future.  Pore pressure will eventually disapate and people can always do sth after.

4. Richmond being flooded to a point where the land disappear is always a stupid idea imo.  Don't want to go into details on this one.

Hope that gives you more info on this matter.
作者: Traum    時間: 2008-5-16 11:50

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作者: SAZABI    時間: 2008-5-16 12:48

yeah... i just want to clarify some 'myth' that the general public has some mis-interpretation on earthquake.  I mean, if the earthquake gets up to 8.0, a lot of us will die anyways whether we live in vancouver or richmond lol.  So if earthquake is a 'big' concern, don't live in greater vancouver
作者: Ultraman    時間: 2008-5-16 12:59

Most first home buyers tends to be very picky to purchase their first homes. However, it's always wiser to buy the first home in a reasonable satisfaction instead of an ideal one. If you can't afford a big and more expensive home for the moment but you still want to buy one, go for a smaller and cheaper one in less expensive areas. It's not difficult at all for a stable working couple to pay for monthly mortgage, yet the much more amount of the down payment is usually harder. Moreover, gotta consider if one of the couples may get layoff or wants to change job later on, would the other couple plus the saving enough to support for a reasonable period of time. I heard of a reference of the amount of the mortgage/rental should be about 1/3 of the total family income.
作者: katamari    時間: 2008-5-16 13:08

Utopia, where is your bf's mom living now? Renting a place or already owned one?
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2008-5-16 13:09

To Shutterbug,

For the housing investment calculation. That is assume you don’t have 18,000 back then, you just have the down payment.  Suppose there is a 40 years mortgage (not in real life). You mortgage the whole proceed with 9%, you pay approx. $140 a month for 40 years. You got to live in the house for 40 years.  By the end of the 40 years, you still can sell the house for 800,000.  I myself will be happy if I can get 400,000 for it.  


What I was trying to say is that 18k to 800k isn't that much in 40 yrs jei, don't get thrown off by the increase, the amount of time invovled in critical...$140 per month @9% for 40 yrs yields 618k already la...what I mean is that stock and real estate both have it's pros and cons as a tool of investment.  Performance-wise, stock wins, leverage-wise, real estate wins.
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2008-5-16 13:14

原帖由 SAZABI 於 2008-5-16 12:48 發表
yeah... i just want to clarify some 'myth' that the general public has some mis-interpretation on earthquake.  I mean, if the earthquake gets up to 8.0, a lot of us will die anyways whether we live in ...

I think the difference is that if Rmd does liquify and wipes out then the chances of dying there is extremely high compared to Vancouver where the chance for survival is much higher at least...
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2008-5-16 13:16

原帖由 Ultraman 於 2008-5-16 12:59 發表
Most first home buyers tends to be very picky to purchase their first homes. However, it's always wiser to buy the first home in a reasonable satisfaction instead of an ideal one. If you can't afford  ...

Have you read this?

http://www.canada.com/vancouvers ... 2-8797-1ce759871cf1

"Detached houses were the least affordable option on the RBC index. The average two-storey house in Metro Vancouver carried a $619,892 price tag, requiring 75 per cent of the region's median pre-tax household income of $60,000 to make the mortgage payments and pay taxes and other ownership costs."

This was back in 2007. So 1/3 income ratio does not work in Van anymore
作者: utopia    時間: 2008-5-16 13:27

原帖由 katamari 於 2008-5-16 13:08 發表
Utopia, where is your bf's mom living now? Renting a place or already owned one?


They are renting a basement now.... yesterday, she told me it's actually ok to purchase apartment for the three of us in the future near Metrotown...

but I think apartment is too little privacy for three people lor... especially, caveman totally can't stand his mom's living style...... It would be nicer to have her "own creative corner"....
作者: katamari    時間: 2008-5-16 13:51

Utopia I totally understand because I am from a divorced family too, my mom used to stick with me a lot because she was too lonely, even she has many friends. Lucky she found someone who can take care of her now haha....

I think you have to ask yourself how much monthly you can spend on your house. If you don't have a solid number, you're like漫無目的looking at houses. if what you can afford is too low for the market, I think you can decide on renting a home as a start. Although it might be ~$2000 for renting a place, at least you don't have some expenses like utility, tax, maintenance or similar, and you don't have to worry about spending extra money fixing this and that.

To me I am not too comfortable using 1/2 or 1/3 of my income to mortgage a house. I don't like the feel of 為左間屋做到死, so I do agree on shutterbug, $2800 for a 5K income family is way too risky, and it's gonna be a burden for you for 25 years, don't even think of having extra $ for your savings.

Maybe rent a place for short term until you can find a suitable place to buy la!
作者: SAZABI    時間: 2008-5-16 14:00

原帖由 shutterbug 於 2008-5-16 13:14 發表

I think the difference is that if Rmd does liquify and wipes out then the chances of dying there is extremely high compared to Vancouver where the chance for survival is much higher at least...


hmm... can you explain why liquefaction yields a lower chance of survival please?
作者: Ultraman    時間: 2008-5-16 14:51

原帖由 shutterbug 於 2008-5-16 13:16 發表

Have you read this?

http://www.canada.com/vancouvers ... 2-8797-1ce759871cf1

"Detached houses were the least affordable option on the RBC index. The avera ...

How if the house price keep raising a lot more than your salary, would you pay 8/10 of your total income for the mortgage? Doctors say people need at least 8 cups of water everyday, but if you're not able to do it doesn't mean it's not necessary. Same as, of course you can put more than 1/3 or 1/2 of your total income for the mortgage, but it's just too risky to secure your living lor. Neglecting how much the house price is, if you can't afford it you can't afford it. I think for most Chinese people still have a very tradintional mind who want to buy their own house, own car, ....etc., but that might not be the smartest way for all people geh.
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2008-5-16 15:42

原帖由 Ultraman 於 2008-5-16 14:51 發表

How if the house price keep raising a lot more than your salary, would you pay 8/10 of your total income for the mortgage? Doctors say people need at least 8 cups of water everyday, but if you're not ...

I don't get what you're trying to say...

I'm not saying one has to put 75% of income into mortgage.  I was trying to show how low is our affordability right now.  An average family needs to give up 75% of income for owning an average house!

[ 本帖最後由 shutterbug 於 2008-5-16 15:43 編輯 ]
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2008-5-16 16:04

原帖由 SAZABI 於 2008-5-16 14:00 發表


hmm... can you explain why liquefaction yields a lower chance of survival please?

that's just my perception...nothing scientific or statistic...

My understanding of "liquify" means that there's no more land or the land sunk or something. So if one doesn't even have a place to rest his feet, how can he possibly wait for rescue?
作者: katamari    時間: 2008-5-16 17:23

原帖由 shutterbug 於 2008-5-16 15:42 發表

I don't get what you're trying to say...

I'm not saying one has to put 75% of income into mortgage.  I was trying to show how low is our affordability right now.  An average family needs to give up  ...


i get what you're saying... but that's really said... that means if you own a house = no life....
作者: 阿邊個邊個    時間: 2008-5-17 20:56

maybe hoping (or strongly hint) our boss could increase our income to compensate for the high prices...?

(*wishful thinking*)
作者: kaimui22    時間: 2008-5-17 22:07

原帖由 utopia 於 2008/5/16 09:12 AM 發表


ai... kaimui, we both wish his mom will stay temporary, and most likely, 99% his mom will STICK WITH US no matter what........ai......

His mom is single parent but with very very problematic perso ...



OMG..I know ppl like that! The ppl that insist your things are their and then make some 無理取鬧理由 to get their way...

hmm..single mother and only one son...so very likely she is going to stick to him
so i guess you're gonna have to look for a bigger place....

BUT...one thing you must consider before making a purchase...are you sure you and caveman are going to be OK in the future with his mom living there? I mean...right now there are already some problems, what if you guys get a place and then you can't stand her or she can't stand you? What will happen? I don't mean to be pessimistic but parents is something you must consider before getting married or planning to live together for a long time....the topic of his mom is going to come up over and over again and you can't avoid it. If you can't stand her now...can you stand living with her or have her looking after your kids in the future?

I know it sounds very coldblooded...but..if the mother-in-law and the wife cannot get along, then EVERYONE in the household will suffer...and it will also deteriorate your relationship with caveman. You gotta think about this before having a property with both yours and caveman's name!
作者: Alcoholic    時間: 2008-5-18 03:00

Twin,
i think kaimui is right.... as much as i will miss you.... maybe you & caveman should hibernate to the states. i mean, after all the drama & history, his mom still doesn't smarten up~! then i don't think anything will ever change her. sometimes, the mother in laws' behaviors are understandable, BUT, the fact is, just because she is an elder, doesn't make her superior (which she thinks she is) and just have to make the youngsters listen to her ways. i mean dude, we're adults now... just because we respect them, doesn't mean we have to listen to them. ok, i sound even more cold-blooded than kaimui~

you know, yesterday when we talked at work, you make me worry that once hubby's sis gets married, my lai-lai MIGHT want to move in with us if we buy a new townhouse for my future bb.... its not like i dont care for her, but you're right.... "easy see, live in hard". i start to worry because the fact that you pointed out (lai-lai most likely won't live with a married daughter & will stick to the son) is right~~~
作者: SAZABI    時間: 2008-5-18 09:22

原帖由 shutterbug 於 2008-5-16 16:04 發表

that's just my perception...nothing scientific or statistic...

My understanding of "liquify" means that there's no more land or the land sunk or something. So if one doesn't even have a place to res ...


err... that's not what really liquefaction means...
anyways, don't worry about it, it is not as bad as the general public thinks.  (it is still a bad thing tho)
作者: utopia    時間: 2008-5-21 09:41

原帖由 kaimui22 於 2008-5-17 22:07 發表



OMG..I know ppl like that! The ppl that insist your things are their and then make some 無理取鬧理由 to get their way...

hmm..single mother and only one son...so very likely she is going to stick  ...


Caveman's uncle (his mom's brother) just passed away last night...
She just talked to him @ 4pm and she received the bad news @ 7pm when we were having dinner together...

so much trouble after his uncle pass away..... ai... anyhow, I guess she really has to stick with us since she is losing support bit by bit.....
作者: utopia    時間: 2008-5-21 09:47

The chance that me and caveman moving to the state is getting higher after we done a lot of research and we have been talking to some professional who work in the states...

We probably will consider moving to the state @ 2009 or the latest 2010... since 2009 is the time that US real estate market hit the bottom according the official graph....

But we still have to fly over there to look for jobs and observe the real environment in the states.

We set a 5 years time frame...buy a house in US when it's extremely low, then fly back to Vancouver after 5 years when their real estate market raise after 5 years...

And it's the perfect timing.... because by then, Vancouver housing should drop or at least it will reach a reasonable pricing....

Dun ask me where all the math come from, I'm not the one who did it... Caveman did. and I trust his knowledge and carefulness..
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2008-5-21 11:00

原帖由 SAZABI 於 2008-5-18 09:22 發表


err... that's not what really liquefaction means...
anyways, don't worry about it, it is not as bad as the general public thinks.  (it is still a bad thing tho)

http://gsc.nrcan.gc.ca/urbgeo/geomapvan/geomap8_e.php

OK, I read some more...so it's not as dramatic as I thought, which is like in movies...LOL

But still I think the damage will be much worse in these red areas compared to the yellow ones in the link.  Tons of concrete buildings in Richmond...I wonder what will happen to those...

Also, our airport...all read   in case of emergency, where are the planes gonna land????
作者: totori    時間: 2008-5-21 14:36

Maybe your friends who work in the States already told you about this... Don't want to sound too negative but the fact is unless you have relatives in US that can help you to immigrate (as family reunion) or there is a company who hired you or your hubby while you are in Canada, it is not as easier as it sounds to "just move to the States". Even if a US company hired you and helped you to deal with all the visa issues (btw you cannot work in the US without the company getting a working visa for you and that's the main reason why Microsoft setup the Vancouver office here because they do not want to deal with all the legal visa issues anymore),  the US Custom can give you a hard time of not letting you go across the border especially if US is going into a recession and there are a more jobless people in the States. (I guess unless the company can and willing to prove that you have the skills/professionals that the company cannot find in US) If you want to move to the States without first getting a job that's even more risks that you have to take. (especially the huge medical insurance cost you have to pay when you don't have a job)

I have a few girlfriends who moved to Seattle because their husbands work there, and they were not able to find job at all. (Mind you all of them are University grads) End up some decided to just have babies and became housewife and the others have to get another diploma/degree before they can find jobs.
作者: utopia    時間: 2008-5-21 14:51

原帖由 totori 於 2008-5-21 14:36 發表
Maybe your friends who work in the States already told you about this... Don't want to sound too negative but the fact is unless you have relatives in US that can help you to immigrate (as family reun ...


Thanks for the head up.

Like I said, we are not just red-necked, and just move to the states without doing all the researches. We wants to be very well-prepared before we consider to move to the states.

As for employment, my company is a global company where they have offices around the world.  I have confirmed with my GM that I can transfer to any of our offices, including the states offices.

As for my boy, he is carrying double degree, working on his CSC, plus he is thinking to get another minor. He wants to make sure he has enough education before we move to the states.

As for relative, his uncle is living in Texas.

Then again, we know it's not easy to move to the states. so we have to do a lot of homeworks before we make such a decision. We have to fly over there to make a final decision at last; including job hunts for him.
作者: jackmeister    時間: 2008-5-21 15:21

so late to join the discussion but i am in a weird situation that links into this stuff

i am currently planning to move to seattle within the next year to start a business and will be living there for more than half a year, would i need to get a work visa or anything weird like that or just pack my bags, drive down, and find a suitable place to start?

im not too keen on the money part as i've already got my parents support to help me with the $$$ (as long as its not outrageous), is there anything i would need to know before i can start a business? like actually applying for immigration to the US?  i am not too interested in the US citizenship because i'll probably get shot for taking it out hahaha

edit: i have uncles in NY and Virginia (yes i know thats weird) but i will not be planning to ask them for help because i've decided to be in seattle

[ 本帖最後由 jackmeister 於 2008-5-21 15:22 編輯 ]
作者: asmok    時間: 2008-5-21 22:32

I didn't read all 6 pages, but it seems like everyone wants to move to the states. I'm kind of curious why people think it's a good idea to move down for cheap housing or start a business in the states vs in Canada?
作者: SAZABI    時間: 2008-5-21 23:02

原帖由 shutterbug 於 2008-5-21 11:00 發表

http://gsc.nrcan.gc.ca/urbgeo/geomapvan/geomap8_e.php

OK, I read some more...so it's not as dramatic as I thought, which is like in movies...LOL

But still I think the damage will be much worse in t ...


hee... i click on the link and "WOW!!"  B/c I see this map every freaking day in the office lol (the one we got has more infomation, even the geology of the area, but the main components are the same)  Don't worry la, even the map highlight the whole area as red... again... not all the area will undergo liquefaction neh.

As for damage, I would think... okie... I should not discuss these thing in public b/c i don't want to be liable.  Hmm... all in all, earthquake engineering is a complex problem neh.  To assess "damage", u have to look at liquefaction and also the ground response and the period of the structure.

As for airport, I can pretty much gaurantee u that it will not undergo liquefaction.  Engineer can make that problem go away easy.  Just that it needs money.  So usually heavy civil structure will take that into consideration.  For example, the Pitt River Bridge that is building now has been "treated" to take away the liquefaction problem.
作者: SAZABI    時間: 2008-5-21 23:06

原帖由 utopia 於 2008-5-21 14:51 發表

As for my boy, he is carrying double degree, working on his CSC, plus he is thinking to get another minor. He wants to make sure he has enough education before we move to the states.


Just a little suggestion.  If he is willing to spend that amount of time in education, it is better to get a master or PhD degree.
作者: utopia    時間: 2008-5-22 07:59

原帖由 SAZABI 於 2008-5-21 23:06 發表


Just a little suggestion.  If he is willing to spend that amount of time in education, it is better to get a master or PhD degree.


Well, it only gonna take him probably another 6 months to finish what I mentioned..

and yes, we have been discussing, should he get his MBA or Master in the future as well..

But I dunno if it's worthed it due to the money budget....and I'm not sure if a MBA is better for his future or a CFA is better for him. We are still discussing lately lor... too much to consider.

[ 本帖最後由 utopia 於 2008-5-22 08:00 編輯 ]
作者: Alcoholic    時間: 2008-5-22 08:07

Twin,
just a question.... why would you want to move to the states for 5 years & then come back to buy a house here? wouldn't it be a waste of time & money if you don't plan to live there for life? even if you buy a house in the states during the lowest period, how much more $ can you make in the states compared to here?

cost wise, isn't it better for you two to stay here, save up for down payment/mortgage for the next few years here & then buy a home here in the next 5 years when you predict that real-estates will drop here?

hubby & i think that maybe you & caveman are jumping a wee bit too much ahead of yourselves. mainly because first of all, caveman is not done his studies yet. 2ndly, you mentioned to us that you have only worked for 2 years or so. and if you do the math, isn't it too early for couples that are new to the work force (& un-supported financially by family) to even consider buying a home in the near future? for my hubby & i, we're a special case... and i do agree with you that we are very fortunate.

[ 本帖最後由 Alcoholic 於 2008-5-22 08:15 編輯 ]
作者: utopia    時間: 2008-5-22 08:28

Well, we want to make a fortune from  moving to the states. The average house price in the states for a decent house is about $350,000. Base on Econ sense and official graph; the house price will drop to the bottom by 2009 for the states and it should recover in about 5-6 years. Which is the time Vancouver should drop their housing price back to normal.

Also, in the states, paying mortgage is tax deductable. It helps us to put that extra money toward our education. And we have a second plan is move to Texas to work together with his uncle.
With his mom moving there with us, we can open a Chinese restaurant at his uncle town.  We know that his uncle town is a high tech small town where rich professional work there and have no where to spend money.  If we open a restaurant there, all the expenses and money can move wisely with that restaurant. .. and his uncle always felt guilty that his family owe him a big time..so we can easily get support from his uncle. Either getting a job or opening a restaurant lor.
作者: utopia    時間: 2008-5-22 08:33

Twin,

But then... if I do have a choice, I don't want to leave Vancouver and my family.

I just told caveman last night, I have no problem moving to anywhere since I have the gut and I adapt to new environment quite well......

It just... I'm really scared that 5 years frame.....
I will received nightmare calls from my family since my parents ain't young anymore...and I'm very attached to my family........... ai....

You know, especially, his uncle just passed away all the sudden which make me worry about my parents a lot
作者: Alcoholic    時間: 2008-5-22 09:30

Twin,
make a fortune from moving????? hmm...
i'm not so sure about plan A since i'm totally not those who look at economy predictions & analysis...

but plan B about moving down to the states to start a restaurant with his uncle & bringing caveman's mom along ?!?!?! are you sh!tting me?!?! i thought one of the main purpose of moving to the states is to (sorry to say...) is to ditch caveman's mom here!!! i dunt know about you, caveman, caveman mom & uncle, but starting up a restaurant ain't easy if you have no experience~ then what use is gonna be made out of caveman's double major/mba and your accounting studies?? it's just gonna go down the drain because you two youngest people will be the main support to run the restaurant! besides, if you say his uncle feels that the family owes him big time, i don't think it's wise to add on the burden of a problematic uncle with an already needy caveman mom!
作者: Alcoholic    時間: 2008-5-22 09:36

maybe i'm just too family orientated... this is in a way how us Twin different. I would totally be up to do wild crazy partying & scary actions. but when it comes to career VS family, i guess i would put family first. that's why the night before yesterday i was having that debate that i discussed with you. not that i'm saying you don't care for family... but you have wild astonishing goals for your career... i had that thought too! i always *thought* that i rather never have babies, and just want to be a strong OL, have a good career, and not to be dependent on a man. but i guess when it is time to be forced to pick between one, i think i lean toward giving up my dreams for a family i dunno... i'm still thinking about it.

at the moment, i have no problem handling simultaneously being a crazy party chica and a good wife. but in the future, i'm not sure about being a successful OL, and a guai guai mother/wife.

[ 本帖最後由 Alcoholic 於 2008-5-22 09:48 編輯 ]
作者: kaimui22    時間: 2008-5-22 09:47

utopia:

so...what will happen to the restaurant 5 years down the road when you want to move back to Vancouver? Are you just gonna shut it down? Moving down to the states, opening up a new restaurant and then moving back up to van is gonna cost you a lot of $$ and energy...are you sure you're going to be willing to give up everything again to come back to Vancouver? Also moving down there doesn't solve the issue with Caveman's mother at all. She will even probably persuade you to stay in Texas or wherever and continue to run the restaurant. Also...do you and caveman have any experience in running a restaurant at all? Where and how are you going to find all your resources? the cooks, the products, the food...etc etc. Even if caveman's uncle is willing to put his support into the restaurant, it's gonna take a lot more than just money to run a business. Also...just like what alcoholic said before, your degrees, your merits will not matter anymore if you are just going to run a restaurant. Why bother finishing up a degree if you're not going to use it?

I also have to agree with her that having 2 years or work experience and making such a big leap (buying a house?!) is going to be overwhelming for you. Changing careers is one thing...moving around to another country and buying property? That's gonna be harsh on you emotionally AND mentally.

Also.....one last thing. has caveman ever made any commitments to you? Living together is one thing...getting married will change all your ways of thinking and suddenly you'll probably want to settle and take care of your family. I don't think you should just follow him to the states or wherever and give up everything here if he is not going to give you a commitment.
作者: Alcoholic    時間: 2008-5-22 09:56

Twin,
kaimui and i are on the same line. i totally agree with her elaborated thoughts to the points that i pointed out. one word that she used that i didn't use in my reply is the word: MARRIAGE.

you talk about moving, family, career, plans... but you guys never mentioned about the plan of getting married! and i KNOW that you guys will get married... but that is gonna cost you (bare minimum $100 for doing nothing & just a marriage licence) at least like $20k just for a tiny wedding. i don't know how your parents think, but given that you told me you're the youngest & completely spoiled... do you think your family will let you go getting married without doing a "small show" for them???

maybe you can say that getting married is just part of the process, part of the whole game plan. but kaimui is right. just by signing a stupid piece of marriage licence will change ALOT of things... your life, your mentality. maybe you see me still partying & still looking young. but getting married hits you HARD! suddenly, you have much more complicated relationships, and more burden to think about... it's like your maturity just gets slammed & boosted up all of a sudden.

as crazy and as subjective as this may sound:
i personally don't think that it's possible for a WOMAN to have a successful career AND be a responsible mom at the same time. is possible to work & be mother at the same time because there's gray areas... but never fully.

[ 本帖最後由 Alcoholic 於 2008-5-22 10:12 編輯 ]
作者: utopia    時間: 2008-5-22 10:32     標題: Thanks Twin and Kaimui

I really had nobody to talk about this move except Caveman and his mom.

my friend will just nag me forever about caveman.
You know, our friend in the keg still try to convince me about dumping caveman and find someone better....

About marriage, due to budget and caveman's complicated background. We decided to have destinate wedding.  

I was going to ask you twin but ng ho yee si, since it's not the time yet...

Will you want to join the crazy cruise ship wedding with us? I've been shopping around about the budget and how it can be arrange on the cruise ship wedding.  Caveman and I both hate the "show time" for wedding.... I used to dream about a luxury wedding when I was young...but after been to so many wedding for the past few years.. I"m sick of the big show.

I rather to have a crazy wedding offshore with my dear friend and family. If they are willing to travel with me on the cruise; they are more than welcome.
If budget and time is a problem, we can do it by the port..

p.s. I have been thinking, I will invite the ultimate crazy crew to join my cruise ship wedding LOL. It will be so much fun~~~
作者: utopia    時間: 2008-5-22 10:36

About opening a restaurant, that's not really my idea.
I asked caveman about the resources and cook problem too. He said his uncle know how to make BBQ pork wor and his mom is very good at cooking (which is true)... plus his mom used to ran a restaurant few years ago and lead to success. BUT, it was own by 3 people, and his mom spent so much time in the restaurant and the income is not extremely well due to 3 ownerships...so she quit and sold the business to the cook.  so the restaurant plan most likely is run by his uncle and his mom ga la...

The more I think about our future, the more I felt so ma faan and frustrated.

I wish I can be an irresponsible chick that I don't have to think about $$ and future and just stay at home..

hahaha, or else, I won't call you the other time about the back up plan  la
作者: utopia    時間: 2008-5-22 10:38

The other night caveman ask me this question.
Am I really ready to be with him for the rest of my life?

Because if I choose to be with him, I'm gambling my future with him. That's mean I cannot expect to be like a normal girl out there.  I have to work hard on my career and sacrifices a lot.  I cannot be the spoiled crying baby anymore and be very responsible and plan few steps ahead on every decision.... and expected the worse.
作者: utopia    時間: 2008-5-22 10:46

原帖由 kaimui22 於 2008-5-22 09:47 發表
utopia:

so...what will happen to the restaurant 5 years down the road when you want to move back to Vancouver? Are you just gonna shut it down? Moving down to the states, opening up a new restaurant  ...


About the restaurant, we will leave the restaurant to his uncle. If his mom choose to stay at the states, she can stay. If not, she can choose to come back to Vancouver with us.

To be selfish or for her own good, we seriously think she should move back to China alone. There, she will be happier than stick with us as we both are very ambitious about our future and career. We won't have spare time for family time for her which will make her extra lonely. And it's doesn't matter we are in Vancouver or in the states or in anywhere on the earth.

The other night, caveman drove me for snack and we have our usual talk about life and future....when he got home. He felt sadden but also annoying, that his mom just
sat at sofa alone and not doing anything at all.  Not watching TV, not talking on the phone not doing housework... just nothing and stare at the window ...with an empty eyes...... Then, he talked to his mom in a soft tone... what makes her to be so lonely? Why can't she improve her life, instead of sitting there and do nothing.. Then her mom uses her usual tone and style "What? I'm not lonely, I'm just tired and just done a lot of housework"

Ai....... his mom just won't admit she has problems...and won't try to address it.... IF she can change her attitude towards friends and others, she won't be that lonely.....


Ai...and with his uncle just passed away, his mom has been murmuring to caveman that if caveman died, she will go suicide...........
作者: utopia    時間: 2008-5-22 10:59

原帖由 Alcoholic 於 2008-5-22 09:36 發表
maybe i'm just too family orientated... this is in a way how us Twin different. I would totally be up to do wild crazy partying & scary actions. but when it comes to career VS family, i guess i would  ...


Twin,

I'm very family oriented person too but.. reality is reality.
It sounds cold blooded but I don't want to follow caveman's mom ---fate.

His mom is too family oriented to an extreme that lead her to lose everything in her life. I'm not kidding you. The more I listened to his mom history, the more I feel chilled because that sounds too much like me....

I guess I will give up on my dream for my family if I choose a "husband" that have well financial support. But, .. I choose a man who has absolute no family support ....and if I want a middle class, or above middle class life... I have to give up my family...

put it this way, I'm very attached to my family that I would rather ditch my friends and my other half, in order to spend time with my family... but at the end,  I still have to struggle to get what I want.

I know it's my fault that I gave up my education opportunity in the past. And now that education fund goes into my parent's retirement fund. My brother, on the other hand, has full support from my parents. He got his education and also help on down payment, and his wedding (not 100% but more than 50% la)...

In my case, I have to save for my education now (which is my fault). .. save for my
wedding and save for my future down payment....

so if I continuous my habit on attach to my family, end up.. I probably get nothing  or too late to regret....

sometimes, when my sister-in-law comment on us, I feel so sour because she thinks that I'm the only one who save for the future and cavemen contribute nothing ... but I'm too tired to argue with her and my brother because I know what I am doing.... and I don't want to make it ugly...
作者: Ultraman    時間: 2008-5-22 11:22

utopia, "he has absolute no family support"??! Hmm... couldn't he really do something ar?
作者: kaimui22    時間: 2008-5-22 12:30

原帖由 utopia 於 2008/5/22 10:46 AM 發表


About the restaurant, we will leave the restaurant to his uncle. If his mom choose to stay at the states, she can stay. If not, she can choose to come back to Vancouver with us.

To be selfish or f ...


So....either way, I still think opening a restaurant with such little experience is too much of a risk. Especially if you're just gonna let everything go and come back in 5 years. Opening a restaurant in the states is not going to solve any issues...it's not going to make tonnes of money for you, nor is it going to deal with Caveman's mom. It sounds more like a 拖得就拖 situation..and HOPEFULLY caveman's mom will decide to stay in the states and look after the restaurant.

So what happens if you move to the states, open a restaurant, make OKAY $$ and then come back to Van? What will happen to you and Caveman if his mom decides to give up the restaurant and move back to Vancouver with you and him? How can you be sure that the money you have earned in the states will be enough for you to buy a house in Vancouver in 5 years? Also...5 years, A LOT can happen. what if you have a baby? Then that means a 3 bedroom house will not be big enough for you, caveman, his mom and kid(s). Then you will probably need to look for a 4 or 5 bedroom house in Vancouver...and you're going to come back here with the same issues as now...the housing market, no matter how bad it goes down, it will not be below the averages you see now. In 5 years, a $800 000 house now might still cost $800 000. Just because the market is going down doesn't mean the prices will. And in 5 years, where will the inflation be?

I still think it's too much of a gamble to take right now...and also, even if Caveman can 'predict' the future market trends, I still think it is too dangerous to assume everything will be fine according to plan. There are many roadblocks in life that you cannot expect. Your plan assumes everything will be fine, everyone will be healthy and OK...but you need to think about possible roadblocks and accidents that may happen along the way.

And the thing you said about Caveman's mom being lonely and depressed...I think she needs a bit more attention right now, especially since her brother died. Maybe she's worried she'll lose Caveman to you and that is why she is holding on to him like a lifeboat.
作者: katamari    時間: 2008-5-22 13:32

Utopia, I truly understand your feelings but your logic is kinda messy maybe you just think too much.


If you are planning to spend only 5 years in the states I don't think it's a good decision to open a restaurant. To establish a business, it is going to be a very long term investment and there are risks behind, especially the restaurant is going to be in Texas where you know nothing it, marketing will be difficult. My uncle is a real example, gave up his job in San Francisco and opened a restaurant is a small town in Ont, invested like 90% of his asset, finally... close down in 1 year, now back to San Francisco, BROKE.

If you 2 have good educational background, you should look for a job if you are only targeting on money.

I am not discussing going to States or not at this point, there must be too many questions on your head, you're thinking too much la, don't make up too much plans at once la. Good luck!
作者: Alcoholic    時間: 2008-5-22 15:28

Twin,
you can ask me about anything anytime you want... whether it's time or not, we can still mo-liu chat about things  

if you have a cruise wedding, of course i'll try my very best to make it (even if hubby can't make it....hehehe ) i already missed that xmas eve cruise with you, i surely don't wanna miss your wedding cruise!! but we can't party TOO hard because afterall, it's YOUR WEDDING dammit! LOL. but i think caveman has no right to monitor a stag night of partying when it's not gonna have accurate observations right? HAHAHAHAHAAH

about restaurant:
knowing how to cook well & cooking COMMERCIALLY is TWO different stories. when you are pressed for time & is making mass repeated production, it doesn't matter how good you cook leisurely.

i think you should just take it easy...BOTH of you. you guys plan TOO MUCH DETAIL for the future. & it doesn't work like that cus future is an unknown factor. one lil change & it will throw you off your detailed plan, & thus you'll feel frustrated. so just plan a rough timeline & highlighted goals... the rest, you really need to go by the chinese saying "see step walk step".

& if you really consider a "backup plan", how will it fit within that detailed "future proposal"? so just relax & look at the NEAR future in front of you. when you're in serious relationship, EVERY woman gambles their future. about how you say you need to "sacrafice alot, work hard etc etc to be with him"... think about it this way: are YOU happy like that? just because he's so aggressive, doesn't mean YOU have to be that way in order to BE WITH him. if he expects that from you, do you think by doing that for him will really create a HAPPY future? think on happiness, rather than always financially ok? that's the #1 point to BE WITH SOMEBODY ---> happiness & COMFORTABLE COMPATIBLE LIFE.

about the mom problem, there's is nothing that can change her way of thoughts & attitude. just like our old long LYK C9 post. you just gotta try your best & suck it up.

being with a man that has no family financial support is fine. as my hubby said to you today at lunch, aside from hard work it's about fate too. there's no guarantee for life. even if you guys both have a good job, & end up making good $ later, doesn't mean by the time you retire you'll still have decent money left. so in a way, it makes no difference.

i agree you don't need to explain so much to people... as long as your close friends understand you is ok. at least me & my hubby both feel that caveman is a great guy, great friend & treats you his very best, & will give you what he has everything...

RELAX
作者: katamari    時間: 2008-5-22 15:55

having a good friend like alcoholic is fortunate, utopia, I am sure your twin will miss you a lot if you leave Vancouver
作者: Alcoholic    時間: 2008-5-22 20:31

yeah... how can i go to work with no lil piggy Twin to stuff up with my snacks?!
2 WHOLE weeks with no Twin in the office, no Twin during weekend, no Twin on LYK, no Twin on facebook, no Twin on the phone
作者: utopia    時間: 2008-5-23 08:58

原帖由 Alcoholic 於 2008-5-22 20:31 發表
yeah... how can i go to work with no lil piggy Twin to stuff up with my snacks?!
2 WHOLE weeks with no Twin in the office, no Twin during weekend, no Twin on LYK, no Twin on facebook, no Twin on t ...


TWIN,

LOL, don't worry. I'm gonna bring a laptop with me to Montreal. So I will be a low life and stuck on LYK, facebook & msn & phone everyday after 4:30 for two weeks...

Well, I will study my accounting gei but it's gonna be very boring just me in the hotel room alone ~~

You know what ? I'm still struggling should I visit the club scenes but I don't want to run into some psycho and chop me into millions pieces like the 16 years old in HK .. wuahahhaahha

I haven't learn your fish and ditch skill yet mah, so I highly doubt can I fish an ditch alone there lor
作者: utopia    時間: 2008-5-23 09:02

And caveman and I were so mo liu last night that we desapartely want to go to your place last night for wii sport and the cosmic hahahahaha

but too bad you are in Richmond and it was around 9:30 , so we just stay at home and continuous our low life... LOL, we are too boring that he went to gym at my place and I play my NDS while waiting for him

p.s. he is at the edge of emotion break down, so that's why I try to keep him busy lor... I can tell  cuz' he starts murmuring stupid things (well, I know he always do hahaha) but that's so not like him... and he told me can't focus on his study at all with all sort of things on his mind.....

I guess he has put too much burden on his shoulder including his uncle crisis. He told me yesterday, for the past two days, they have been on LD for hoursss discussing how to resolved and he forgot to have dinner on Wed night......
作者: Alcoholic    時間: 2008-5-23 09:17

Twin,
don't need to be doubtful of DD skill... let's go out tonight & lemme train you! tell caveman to drive you to my place, we have dinner together & get ready together. when we go out, we can leave Caveman behind with Hubby to play together with Wii Fit & comics!!! how's the plan?! AHAHAHAHHA this way, we can have fun, keep caveman occupied, and have a peer-babysitter for out guys!
作者: Alcoholic    時間: 2008-5-23 09:19

maybe tell Caveman that one of the reasons that you love him is because he's a strong man. but on the other hand, you want to be there for him to share his sorrows... & encourage him to open up to you instead of keeping it to himself. its ok that he puts up a face in front of people. but in front of you, there's nothing to hide right? also remind him that he needs to take good care of himself, or else how can he take care of you right?! & the sad truth is, eventually our parents & elders will have to leave us one day... so he needs to be strong.



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