our rough calculation these days is that for a small sized family (family of 4), you'll need at least 200Amp panel, where 300Amp is ideal.
Assuming that the rental unit is part of the house and does not require separate panel (i.e. laneway house).
You'll also need a new breaker panel(with at least 30+ breaker slots in it), coordination with a certified electrician to do the job.
Lastly: also consider portion of them breakers to be of AFIC type (not the standard GFIC type), to prevent possible slow-current leak related fires from happening from behind the wall (studs) or other slow shorts.
Good luck.
Q.作者: TurboDoe 時間: 2016-11-22 07:57
Thank you Quest. electrician said can upgrade from 60 amp to 100 amp and there is no need to get a permit from the City. However, two Reno guys said electricity upgrade needs to get a permit from the City. Which side is correct?作者: Quest 時間: 2016-11-22 11:31
Always get a permit from the city (and then document/keep them in a safe place afterwards).
Insurance company will refuse to compensate you if the work performed by electricians (upgrading electrical panel, in particular) does not come with a relevant permit.
Also: if your so-called electrican trying to talk you out of getting a permit (even just a small uprade from 60 Amps to 100Amps), don't use him. Go find another one whose more than willing to work with you to get the necessary permit before performing the upgrades.
Q.作者: TurboDoe 時間: 2016-11-22 12:11
Thx Quest. Then should I at least ask the Reno guy to start doing Touch ups (patching holds in walls) in the house? Or even finish reno inside the house first and then upgrade the electricity very last?作者: Quest 時間: 2016-11-22 14:23
before you proceed, a few questions to ask first:
(1) you said the house if 50+yrs old, are the wall (AC) outlets still on 2 prongs or 3 prongs (3 prongs meaning that there's a center pin for ground)? If 2 prongs, you'll definitely need to upgrade them all in order to get proper house insurance for that (for your proper protection).
The best time to deal with this is during reno where you can punch holes on the walls, pull new electrical cables, etc.
if you patch the holes, paint the interior walls, etc. before re-running any new electrical wiring pulls that's gonna cost you major: poking holes on walls again, etc.
(*I did some work on 50+ yrs old houses on Oak Street before, and for that I knew the insurance part*)
Q.作者: TurboDoe 時間: 2016-11-22 14:46
2 or 3 pins? Need to double check. If they are 2 pins, what upgrades needs to be done?作者: TurboDoe 時間: 2016-11-22 14:47
Sorry i mean prongs, but pins. Thx Quest作者: Quest 時間: 2016-11-22 20:01
2 prongs and no ground, that does not meet electrical standards nowadays (thus the refusal for all the insurance companies in Canada RE: insuring your (or your friend's) house.
nowadays, it must be standard 3-prong (with ground) NEMA 5-15 for wall jack AC outlets.
So, for that house: a new house breaker panel + re-run all the electrical wirings throughout the house in order to meet the standard requirements.
You (your friend) skimp on this, then anything goes wrong, insurance will not compensate once discovered that the electrical wirings are not up to standard.
While the house is still in reno stage: it's best to pull all the walls out (beware of asbestos, esp. 50+yrs old house, and or/lead based paint which was very common back then), re-run all the electrical wirings, check for hidden (or illegal ) junction boxes of any sort...
Unfortunately, this is not gonna be cheap. Good news is that once this is done properly, you (your friend) will not have to worry about overheating, hidden junction box failure (may lead to house fires), etc. and most important of all: he can get insurance (make sure the job has proper permit on it).
Good luck on 50+ yrs old house.
Q.作者: TurboDoe 時間: 2016-11-23 00:12
Thx Quest. By the way, how much will it roughly cost to get all the things done? Pull walls out? You get rid of all th existing drywall? Rerun all new wiring and then new drywall?作者: Quest 時間: 2016-11-23 09:56
Hard to say bud, for we simply do not know how/what lies behind the walls, how easy the job to be done (i.e. pulling new wires, removing old walls and install new drywalls, any moisture damage or rodent damage to the original walls and studs behind it, etc.)
Also: additional concerns such as whether it has asbestos (requires abatement company to do an estimates), or lead paint (again, check various abatement companies profile and see if they can do them in 1 shot), etc.
In other words: these are all hidden "unknown" that can impact the overall reno cost just to bring the house (interior of course) up to code.
He must be patient and prepare to spend some time getting various estimates, etc.
Those are the things I cannot tell you (estimates will be off no matter how much we try)
Q.作者: TurboDoe 時間: 2016-11-23 11:58
I asked my friend and he said Those electric outlets are 3 prongs.作者: Quest 時間: 2016-11-23 12:20
make sure he or his electrician pull off the outlet cover and check (as many of them as possible) to see if the wiring are 3-wire type (2 insulated + ground). For I've seen some of these houses, their electrician actually "cheated" by installing standard 3-prong outlets while the house still has 2 wire (no ground) wiring all the way to the fuse panel (you heard right, fuse panel!)
Wait til the insurance guy find out about this by then it would be too late.
Q.作者: TurboDoe 時間: 2016-11-23 13:59
My friend said those outlets have 3 prongs.作者: TurboDoe 時間: 2016-11-23 14:39
I see. Thx Quest.作者: TurboDoe 時間: 2016-11-23 14:41
Some reno ppl said as long as you dont add new electric outlets in the house, then there is no need to upgrade the electric system. Is that right?作者: Quest 時間: 2016-11-23 14:57
本帖最後由 Quest 於 2016-11-23 15:05 編輯
IMHO not really, citing that (1) those old panels for 60 amps (assuming not upgraded for 50+yrs now), chance are: they may still be on round glass fuse type, which is not up to code, but illegal:
The one on the right is the legit type that should be in this house, regardless of how he looks at it.
(2) Unless everything gets thoroughly checked and re-certified by a licensed, certified electrician (with proper wiring (with grounds) and 100amps+ breaker panels installed), otherwise: given the elevated electricity consumption in modern day homes (waaaay more than what it used to be half a century ago, which mainly comprised of radio, cooking range, filament lightbulbs, etc. and not many houses come with TeeVee set to begin with). Back in those days: an electrical washer and/or an electrical fridge are the only major electrical appliances one typically had back in those days (and not even electrical clothes dryer in site unless you are rich and have big fuse panels built in to the house to begin with).
Once again: like I never said enough: buying a 50+ yrs old house to do reno is a very costly affair (IMHO, based on the experiences I accumulated so far); for most of the house needs to be upgraded and that can easily cost an additional 100k (if you want everything to be done to bring all things up to code, such as plumbing, all electricals, wall insulation, abestos abatement, lead paint removal (abatement), re drywalling, etc.)
rigid copper tubing in GVRD typically lasts around 35 yrs and will "thin" out over the decades, and will burst given any elevated water mains pressure. I would seize the opportunity and upgrade them all to PEX. Drainage piping are typically clay-pipes which will require replacement with PVC type, etc. and the list goes on and on....
You skimp on any of these work at this golden opportunity, it will come back to haunt you big $$$$$$$ time afterwards.
