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標題: Isarel vs Palastine; Zionist vs. Hamas; [打印本頁]
作者: bluntbro    時間: 2009-1-10 11:24     標題: Isarel vs Palastine; Zionist vs. Hamas;

I went to a Jewish event on Thursday night to support the Israeli action in Gaza...not surprisingly to find that I am the only Asian face within the whole crowd of 500+ people.  It is a war that has caught the world's attention. Just wondering how many of you here know about this conflict in the MidEast, and your take on from the two parties that relentless launching rockets over each other soil and killing civilians.

This conflict might be the ignition point for all Arabs and western clash, and as well a platform for the showdown of world power struggling. Some say, it is the birth p-lace of  "God" and possibility another "World War".  Do Chinese people care?




אתר עצמאי המאפשר פרסום של חומר כתוב וויזואלי: ידיעות חדשותיות, עמדות וד עות.
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2009-1-10 12:38

I do.
And tell you one true thing,
Terrorism in Middle east born from Isarel.
Search how they bomb the British building.
Support bombing Gaza is non-sense.

check out mu video.
[youtube]mCFq_CgqT8k&e[/youtube]
[youtube]K5wrwZlwAq8&e[/youtube]

I know it is only one side of the story but, come on, I don't think Hamas can't ever do such a killing.
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2009-1-10 12:42

And once more,
I don't support Hamas or against Hebrew,
I just agreed on the action- WAR.
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2009-1-10 13:24

1/3 of the death toll in Gaza is Children.
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2009-1-10 13:59

I watched a show and they interviewed some reps speaking for both governments...both sides blaming each other (not surprised)...with limited knowledge about them from the western world (unless you watch news from the Middle East) it's really hard for me to give a fair comment.  It's seems that US and UK are backing up Israel, so they have "unlimited" power.  They can wipe out the entire place

Gaza has a high ratio of children, something like 50% of their population.  I just hope that they will end this war quickly, less casualties the better.
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2009-1-10 14:08

Hard.
Both side aim to kill each other off from this land.
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2009-1-10 14:20

remember Rabin???
Hebrew could be as bad as Hamas.
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2009-1-10 17:07

Search Deir Yassin, Lydda, Ramleh.
al-Nakba.
That's something you will never never NEVER heard from your Jewish friends, bluntbro.
作者: chunsh    時間: 2009-1-10 19:38

原帖由 bluntbro 於 2009-1-10 12:24 發表
I went to a Jewish event on Thursday night to support the Israeli action in Gaza...not surprisingly to find that I am the only Asian face within the whole crowd of 500+ people.  It is a war that has c ...


why do u support them?
I saw the news everyday about how many children have been killed by the Israeli army. you think those middle east children should die?

united nation, and some other countries already took action to ask Israeli to stop firing and sit on the table to talk, but they refuse.
作者: alboma    時間: 2009-1-10 20:55

because Hamas is recognized by a lot of government that it is a terrorist organization (including Canada), it is basically antisemitic, and notorious for its suicidal bomber...
here is atimeline of what happened

it's really tragic when innocent civilians suffer
作者: zoids    時間: 2009-1-10 21:32

Damn those Christians never stop creating trouble for this world.... Jesus and Mohamed be damned and should be rolling in their graves.
作者: goldie    時間: 2009-1-10 21:34

Watching them,
I finally come to the conclusion that religion is the root of all eveil.
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2009-1-11 02:44

wait a minutes,
鍚安主義出現之前，
猶太人與亞拉伯人同居於巴勒斯坦一直相安無事，
直至以色列要建國為止。
還有，讀多點書，猶太敎不同基督教，
可說猶太教是基督敎與伊斯蘭教的始袓，
這裡要還基督教一個公道。
這到是一個宗教問題，
是公地分配不公的問題，
別抽基督教的水。

[ 本帖最後由 MoiRhapsody 於 2009-1-11 03:45 編輯 ]
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2009-1-11 02:56

原帖由 alboma 於 2009-1-10 21:55 發表
because Hamas is recognized by a lot of government that it is a terrorist organization (including Canada), it is basically antisemitic, and notorious for its suicidal bomber...
here is atimeline of wh ...

自殺炸彈....
tell you the true,冇人想死。
我唔係支持哈瑪斯，不過如果我video裡要既係當事人，
做人肉炸彈就係我唯一既生存目的。
當我地18歲既時候我地目標係靚車拍拖名牌,
佢地既唯一目標係為屋企人報仇，不惜任何代價。
你可以話我扮晒野，好虛偽，
不過我真係心痛。
作者: chunsh    時間: 2009-1-11 09:38

原帖由 MoiRhapsody 於 2009-1-11 03:56 發表

自殺炸彈....
tell you the true,冇人想死。
我唔係支持哈瑪斯，不過如果我video裡要既係當事人，
做人肉炸彈就係我唯一既生存目的。
當我地18歲既時候我地目標係靚車拍拖名牌,
佢地既唯一目標係為屋企人報仇，不惜任何代 ...

agree, yes terrorist must be stopped...or eliminated as much as possible
but the reason for why so many terrorist and why so many meat bombs are also important for those barbaric government to know too. Killing can't stop terrorism
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2009-1-11 14:03

as i assume,
the western world never wanted to eliminate the terrorist, they care less for the meat bomb. but every single terrorist bombing is a perfect excuse for invasion.
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2009-1-11 14:14

FOR THE RECORD,
以色列國防軍前身是惡名昭彰的terrorist,
專炸當地英國人。
是中東恐佈分子的鼻祖。
可笑的是，
最後他們成功了！！
炸了一個以色列國出來！！！！
作者: bluntbro    時間: 2009-1-13 13:49

its a war...we all knew.

War = Aggressiveness = Personal Greed = Vengeance = New Tech for lethal weapons = Modern Invention = American business = new funding/financial deals = Swiss Banks/Bermuda Banks = revitalizing the money transaction =  lots of jobs = today's economic need for the world.  If there 's no current war, uncle sam will go stir one up. pc of cake.

There got to be a war somewhere for carzy mofo to fire shots, for those who's in this business to keep up with payroll. It’s a money generator. Without it, some countries will fold so fast before u even notice them. My question is merely, why this one in particular never ends.  It seems becoming more confusing about the question of wrong’s and right's.  Are we able to understanding the deep relations between is it the jews vs arabs, or white western Christian vs arab Muslims, or is it between beliefs and thinking, or is it a wealth match or is it as simple as it is: territory control match?

I support not because I am a Zionist by any standard. The Jews are deep in our community, sharing the wealth of education, moral standard, social conduct, behavior practices, welfare, etc. Israelis, at this recent fight, was being provoked against (during Xmas time), and again, being violated on a signed peace agreement of both parties by the offensive side, who doesn’t have the muscle to hold off on the trigger. (at least that what it seems). If the jews wish for it, they could just carpet bomb Palestine without a glitch as an effective elimination attack strategy. The most it will face perhaps a few months of national condemn, and through that,  they get on with life without being bother by these tunnel diggers, rocket launching, suicide bomber, and border attacks.  So, why didn’t they choose to do so? Humanity and the rooted belief in loving life as practiced by Judaism. How about the Arabs?  They are tempted…but that would be a last call before a nuc. war.

Hatred is way beyond description when a conflict between races lasted for over 80 years.... blood shed is written in every family’s history.

Totally no siding here...just wanna know how the outsider, as us, Chinese, thinks abt this conflict. This war will sure extend to a much greater scale in no time.

This week I will share time with the other side and I will get the both side story.
作者: BiscottiGelato    時間: 2009-1-13 15:39

Even the Palastinian Authorities rules the Hamas as a Terrorist group. I think Israel have their right to defend themselves. On the flip side, I just don't see what is the lamest excuse that the Hamas can come up with for firing random rockets into Israel territory for months when they were under a 6 month truce.....

If the Hamas don't provoke Israel, there'd be no full scale invasion. You guys can stab each other on the political tables, conduct secret assasination, suicide bomb, etc etc. But when you claim responsibility for firing rockets with your national convetional armed forces, you are pretty much asking for it.

I am not justifying for the war, I am just saying that Hamas should've stopped firing those stupid useless rockets like, RIGHT NOW if they show any care for their own people. The war is wrong, but it's not the Israeli's that started it, it's the Hamas who provoked the Israelis to start this.

What I really don't understand is how the Hamas were able to win against the Fatah in the election back in 2006. I searched on numerous articles but I still don't get it. If even many Palistinian don't like the Hamas, how the heck did they get in power?
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2009-1-13 17:00

Sometimes, ruler just want war,
they don't give a **** of their ppl.
The action of Hamas is clearly that they are gambling what will the Islam countries will do, and Israel is DARE you all to do anything with their "invasion" since Gaza stripe officially is not recognized internationally as part of any sovereign country, so therefore it has NO VOICE and RIGHT.
作者: decane    時間: 2009-1-13 17:54

原帖由 BiscottiGelato 於 2009-1-13 16:39 發表
Even the Palastinian Authorities rules the Hamas as a Terrorist group. I think Israel have their right to defend themselves. On the flip side, I just don't see what is the lamest excuse that the Hamas ...


Funny you say that Palestinian Authorities rules the Hamas as a Terrorist Group.

Hamas is the elected government for Palestinian.  The government call itself terrorist? too funny.

FYI, Hamas is created by Israeli to counter Fatah which now backfires.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z6vMAoFwf4 (directly from Ron Paul).


My point of view to the crisis is that both sides are wrong and we can never tell who is right who is wrong without a clear understand of the history of both.  We living in the west are exposed to propaganda (so do people living in gaza).  We never get both sides of the story.

WAR is wrong.
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2009-1-13 18:19

原帖由 decane 於 2009-1-13 18:54 發表


Funny you say that Palestinian Authorities rules the Hamas as a Terrorist Group.

Hamas is the elected government for Palestinian.  The government call itself terrorist? too funny.

FYI, Hamas is cr ...


thx for sharing.
作者: bluntbro    時間: 2009-1-14 11:40

it is true that Israelis keep creating a monster and bomb for themselves over the course of time n this war.  Best example is, when Jew decides to build a school for humanitarian cause, the school end up receiving constant funding for books and operation and yet those money become partially and ‘accidentally” goes to the hand of the terrorist, or even worse, the school is found with an underground bomb making factory (unknown of to anybody). Hamas is almost a close match to this parable. Someone organized a political party, raise a super star, channel it through an election, and viola…we hv a monster. Does it ring a bell to you this sounds like the story of Bin Laden. We heard those stories, we saw people being wrongly accused. However, again, it is a monologue all along. Does anyone see similar stories coming from the other side, accusing the Jews has become a terrorist after receiving kind help is from the Arabs?

My point is: at the end, Jews are being sought for help and assistance up till today. It is still a young but self sustaining, technologically advance, and medically innovative country.  It’s a nation that gathers Jews as a country but not a tribe or a local community anymore. Some just simply can’t handle this idea. Whether you like to think the stripe is part a country or not….in mainstream of our world, (UN List of Member States) yes, Israel is a recognized country and Gaza is in Israel.

Israelis have their own terrorists too...but nowhere similar to how Hamas is operating…Israel terrorist are individual, guerrilla style and honestly, it is not promoted in any Jewish community. And..oh. for got to mention the new denotative weapons, look at the new bombs people....Israelis using new bombs....white phosphate
作者: decane    時間: 2009-1-14 13:12

原帖由 bluntbro 於 2009-1-14 12:40 發表
it is true that Israelis keep creating a monster and bomb for themselves over the course of time n this war.  Best example is, when Jew decides to build a school for humanitarian cause, the school end ...


Take a look at what Israeli troops did today.  It's disgusting:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7828536.stm
作者: soli    時間: 2009-1-14 14:12

My point is: at the end, Jews are being sought for help and assistance up till today. It is still a young but self sustaining, technologically advance, and medically innovative country.

美國每年軍事/財政援助以色列50億美元以上(以色列人口比香港還少)﹐還有無數技術無償輸出﹐唔知道原來o甘都叫self sustaining.

Israelis have their own terrorists too...but nowhere similar to how Hamas is operating…Israel terrorist are individual, guerrilla style and honestly, it is not promoted in any Jewish community.

呢位人兄真係語無倫次﹐人地係話緊以色列立國之前﹐猶太人在巴勒斯坦既一連串恐怖襲擊(為了獨立)﹐說以色列是中東恐怖襲擊先驅。

以色列若不歸還1967年軍事強佔既土地﹐停止在那些土地上殖民和停止對巴勒斯坦的軍事封鎖﹐咩和平進程/停火協議全部都也是空話。
土地一天被佔領著﹐向以色列發動攻擊也算不上挑撥行為﹐何況這些火箭攻擊極其量只是要證明哈馬思的軍事存在。

如果現在日本仍然軍事佔領住中國東北﹐中國要出兵收復土地算不算是挑撥行為?
作者: BiscottiGelato    時間: 2009-1-14 14:24

Saw this article over lunch in the cafeteria, being re-published on today's Vancouver Sun, in the Canada and World section if I didn't remember wrong. Just food for thought:
http://www.onejerusalem.org/2009 ... fessor-condemns.php
作者: BiscottiGelato    時間: 2009-1-14 14:32

原帖由 soli 於 2009-1-14 14:12 發表

美國每年軍事/財政援助以色列50億美元以上(以色列人口比香港還少)﹐還有無數技術無償輸出﹐唔知道原來o甘都叫self sustaining.


呢位人兄真係語無倫次﹐人地係話緊以色列立國之前﹐猶太人在巴勒斯坦既一連串恐怖襲擊(為了 ...


If Japan still occupied China, and China uses conventional force to try to capture land being taken over by targeting Japanese military targets, fair game.

Hamas, as it is told by major news outlets around the world, are firing provocative rockets into Civilian areas of Israel...

Of course, news can always be faked and manipulated... but if all sources of info can be faked then there's no point for discussion here because there wouldn't be any basis for any points presented here...

Besides, the sin by Israel was not done in the Six Day War (1967). It was Egypt and other Arab gangs who started it, just that it resulted in Israel retaliation which, when the dust settled, Israel actually gained more territory in the process... The sin was done post WWII when the Western world forcefully partitioned a land for the Jews in the modern day Israel... But then, who is to say whose right and whose wrong? If you don't let Jews have their own state in Israel, how about having 1 in Canada then? LOL. Besides, from ancient times the Jews were actually in Israel and they were expelled. So whose to say whose right and wrong if you have to count back to the times of Adam and Eve or the times of the Big Bang? LOL

Just saying, when you are targeting civilian across the border, you can surely expect forceful retaliation if you don't stop. One should recognize that that's an act of defense. In war, there's always casualty... at least the Israeli forces are not purposefully targeting Gaza civilians (or at least, they are not supposed to...).

[ 本帖最後由 BiscottiGelato 於 2009-1-14 14:38 編輯 ]
作者: soli    時間: 2009-1-14 19:17

以色列軍隊上年開進加沙攻打監獄﹐殺死幾十名警察和囚犯﹐理由是怕其中某囚犯會被釋放...是誰在挑撥?

以色列卻佔約旦河西岸﹐開軍隊用剷泥車拆晒巴勒斯坦人既房屋﹐然起猶太人殖民區。 巴勒斯坦人反抗用石頭擲以色列軍人後被亂槍掃射﹐..是誰在挑撥?

攻擊非軍事目標=恐怖襲擊﹐這是軍事力量強大的一方所定義的﹐ 我可認為超限戰平常合理得很。何況現在以色列連聯合國醫院都炸﹐又向記者平民開火﹐跟哈馬斯的做法也沒分別了(還用了磷彈)。

六日戰爭是以色列先攻擊﹐
又返到日本佔領中國這個比喻﹐ 現在日本仍軍事佔領中國東北﹐ 中國集結軍隊要收復領土但被你說成是挑起戰爭了。日本就可以合情合理合法的”先發制人“一路攻進北京﹐趕走中國人將北京作殖民區了。好荒謬吧~
力強者勝﹐本來亦無可厚非﹐ 但現在有聯合國﹐ 聯合國可是禁止侵略行為的。
幾十年來﹐聯合國決議要譴責以色列不下數十次﹐要以色列撤出佔領區﹐ 絕大部份國家也支持了﹐但通通被美國行使否決權否決掉。
我地呢D相隔萬里的平民﹐也只好暗嘆這世界係幾o甘不公義。
其實以色列同中國關係一向頗好﹐若果唔係做得太過份﹐我都費事再搭嗲。。
作者: soli    時間: 2009-1-15 14:53

委內瑞拉宣布與以色列中斷外交關係，不滿以色列軍事攻擊加沙地帶。

連耶教國家都睇唔過眼﹐要同以色列斷交﹐可見呢班上帝選民既所作所為係幾o甘惡劣。
作者: bluntbro    時間: 2009-1-15 16:34

原帖由 soli 於 2009-1-14 15:12 發表

美國每年軍事/財政援助以色列50億美元以上(以色列人口比香港還少)﹐還有無數技術無償輸出﹐唔知道原來o甘都叫self sustaining.


呢位人兄真係語無倫次﹐人地係話緊以色列立國之前﹐猶太人在巴勒斯坦既一連串恐怖襲擊(為了 ...

doubt it you have a good grasp of the background. Israelis have its own extremist. they are classified as terrorist and they maniac. No one condones their act. That's what I was referring to.

The support from Us is because US is playing the world police card. They either play the financial support card or send in the troops card. These relationships are called – Allies collation.

Strategically, we can't really comment on tactic and actions when troops are on the ground doing, whether they r doing the absolute right thing by the sheer action itself. People look at motive and effectiveness. And of course....that standard is limited to actions like massacre and inhuman brutality when soldiers pursuit the kill. (I am responding to those who comment on their tact in taking over prisons and shot prisoners.

I am going on to the other side, a Palestinian supporting thing…. Hopefully I will hear more and have my focuses expand wider and broader…
作者: bluntbro    時間: 2009-1-15 16:42

原帖由 soli 於 2009-1-15 15:53 發表

連耶教國家都睇唔過眼﹐要同以色列斷交﹐可見呢班上帝選民既所作所為係幾o甘惡劣。


Venezuela....u serious...Venezuela??? hahaa...was that the guy who scream devil and demon so loud after bush's visit..and u call tht country a high well worth discussed country? Poor jews...now u lose a oil import supplier... and they choose to abandon condemn you, Isarel, and quit all diplomacy?? hahaha....
let me hold my tears...

tht will be a good joke for tonight...thanks bud~
作者: BiscottiGelato    時間: 2009-1-15 16:50

I'm sure there's tons of conflict between Palestinian and the Israel. I'm sure both sides done a lot of nasty stuff. I'm not saying Israel are saints and all they have done so far since the beginning of time is all moral ane ethical. I'm saying if you fire friggin rockets for friggin a whole year on my civilians, then my military action to disable your capability to do so is called 'defense'.

Also, I completely don't understand your logic in regards to that targeting civilian is just 'normal'. Yeah in war you can do whatever you want, but to claim to be 'right', not targetting civilian is the least you should do. I am talking 'targeting' here, not talking about collateral damage.

Now, in regards to Israel destroying plenty of civilian structures and piling plenty of civilian casualties... Did you even read the link I posted a couple posts ago on the article written by that Havard Law dude? The argument/speculation here is that the Hamas is using their own citizens as human shield (aka. launching attacks from hospitals, heavy residential areas, refugee camps). Also, attacking Israel civillian to provoked Israel to disable their military capabilities. They are basically just trying to rack up the death toll. How is that 'right' by any chance?

And if not for military action, what do you suppose Israel to do? Hamas have increased rocket attack to what? 6/7 dozens a day? ever since the 6 months truce ended late December. They denied renewal of the truce, even tho during the truce they still fired a dozen or so rockets a day over the Gaza border anyways. Furthermore these rockets are basically randomly scattered over area of land with plenty of civilians. This can't even be considered as conventional military action that attempts to reclaim disputed land. This is purely provoking Israel to whip their a$$, as civilian death is what they want.

I agree that full scale assault causing tons of civilian casualty is not the brightest move. But something must be done to remove the Hamas from power. Call me naive, I personally think assassination probably is a better way to get rid of the Hamas regime if one is to use force? But sitting there continually letting the enemy bomb your civilians is called irresponsible to your own people.
作者: beaver    時間: 2009-1-15 17:28

When two gangs are fighting for a land and claimed that they own it (or their ancestor own it), no one can judge and suggest how to solve the problem. Only the strong one will win (justice seems not work here). There is no ending until one group totally disappear. (e.g. Iran might destroy the land by nuclear weapons.)

I saw a very good documentary by BBC about Israel. Talking about how Jews start to build Israel and how British withdraw. This history problem need (a lot of) time to solve, and many many more to die. (However, we all will finally die someday.)

Thanks there is no more IRA, only some Tamil tiger. Hope the people in North Korea live better, no more famine in Africa.
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2009-1-15 18:02

Palestinian在巴勒斯坦地區住了至少五百年。
直至軍隊鎮壓。
Palestinian做了無國籍的難民50多年！！！
回應bg，以色列唔打仗大把野可以做，
俾難民回原居地之其一，
撤銷國內既種族階級主義，
如果你係呢到俾人歧視你都唔會就咁算，
點解你會容忍以色列當巴勒斯坦人係畜牲咁殺咁趕呢？？？
哈瑪斯一直都有講，佢地要求以色列拆牆。
以色列起石屎牆圍Gaza同west bank根本一直係犯國際法，
當巴勒斯坦人係畜牲咁圍，
又炸晒gaza唯二既兩個可用港口，
咁你叫人食乜？？？
點解你可以無視呢啲事實呢？？？
火箭炮可以話佢地特登吐口水落你到，
咁你係咪要殺人全家呢？？？
洗唔洗咁重手？？
呢啲事只會對畜牲做。
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2009-1-15 18:36

Isreali claims that they own the land, that their ancestor once thrived,
according to this logic, starting from China, India, Russia, all the way to Danube,
were once occupied and ruled by the Mongolian Hordes, and America ruled by native
Indians, should we return everything back to their original masters?
Isreali claim that the land is given from God, but they were condemned and expelled
for their sins.  Since when their sins were forgiven? and who is their real life God
and Provider?  it is Uncle Sam , not Jehovah.
作者: BiscottiGelato    時間: 2009-1-16 01:59

Don't get me wrong guys. I'm not siding with Israeli in terms of just owning the place as they are doing so and as it is. On the flip side, i'm dispising Hamas action in targetting civilian with their continuous and never-interrupting rocket attacks, and that the Israeli's should have the right to stop actions that continually put their own people in harms way.

Yes Israel is pushing forcefully thru Gaza. Civilians there are suffering. They claim they will stop their military action if Hamas stop firing random rockets across the border. Then why is the Hamas still firing useless rockets through the border? What good does that do to any issues at all? Why are their militia-men using hospitals and refugee building as sheilds when counterattacking the Israelis? Are they trying to brand themselves as a terrorist organization by meaninglessly escalating the war, or do they really just want to see the death toll continually rack up, or do they just want more of their own citizens to die? It seems to me that at least Israel is trying to protect their own people, while the Hamas don't friggin care about their fellow Palestinians at all..... Besides, 再重手都 still haven't been able to stop those rockets from firing. At least they are trying to only engage military targets....

比人 fire random rockets for 6 months at civilian territory 之後要"俾難民回原居地之其一，撤銷國內既種族階級主義", and you are talking to what you claim as a 'bully' that's "borderline terrorist", whom is stronger in both economy and military power than you? If the Hamas think they can achieve their goal of reclaiming their own land this way, then 佢地真係好心做壞事...

Palestinian got their land taken from them fifty years ago. Israelis claims their land got taken from them 500 years ago. Whose land is it? I definately won't make the call here. But if you f_ck my citizens then you know you'll get whacked. Sounds logical to me. The difference here is that I'm trying to defend my people while you shoot from behind your own....
作者: MoiRhapsody    時間: 2009-1-23 06:20

廿萬加沙學童周六復課
(明報)1月23日 星期五 21:00
以色列    向加沙的軍事行動結束後，大約20萬學童將可在明日復課。

聯合國    難民救濟及工程處在加沙海濱地區共開設了221間學校，在22日的戰爭期間，許多學校臨時用作難民營。發言人稱，明日所有學校會重開。(法新社)

THX GOD,
NO, THX OBAMA.



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