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標題: Campbell again... [打印本頁]
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2009-5-13 00:05     標題: Campbell again...

本帖最後由 shutterbug 於 2009-5-13 01:09 編輯

What do you think?

http://www.vancouversun.com/Busi ... /1589774/story.html
作者: rainbow-davie    時間: 2009-5-13 00:50

I m happy.
作者: masterbear    時間: 2009-5-13 05:44

Better than NDP for sure!!
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2009-5-13 05:51

Better than NDP for sure!!
masterbear 發表於 2009-5-13 05:44

Now I can sleep well
作者: AAC    時間: 2009-5-13 05:57

本帖最後由 AAC 於 2009-5-13 07:02 編輯

I voted for BC Liberal but don't like arrogant G. Campbell.....
Too bad, I'm not in his riding.

Among all Chinese candidates, I hate G. YxU the most.  The way he spoke and attacked his counterpart were outrageous, despites I'm not in his riding too.
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2009-5-13 06:35

I voted for BC Liberal but don't like arrogant G. Campbell.....
Too bad, I'm not in his riding.

Among all Chinese candidates, I hate G. YxU the most.  The way he spoke and attacked his counterpart w ...
AAC 發表於 2009-5-13 05:57

Agreed, I worked at the poll yesterday, as expected, the NDPer organized group voting en masse,  they would  constantly  look up the voter list , rushed to call whoever have not yet cast their vote.  The proposed STV would definitely give them more advantage..
作者: tofu    時間: 2009-5-13 06:56

why not
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2009-5-13 08:18

本帖最後由 somewhereintime 於 2009-5-13 08:23 編輯

7# tofu
People live through Glen Clark's regime would know what a corrupted government would hurt business. I've been here since 1977 and yet to see any bureaucratic comparable.  Right,  freeze the college tuition, so students would have to waste one year or more to accumulate enough credit. Smart up students, high education is very expensive, you are only paying a small portion of the tuition at school, and eventually you will be paying for the consequences.
What made me laugh is whenever  Gabxxx Yxx on talkshow, he praises highly Clark's
economic insight and that Clark is now the right arm man of Jimmy Patterson's enterprises. How so? by staging class struggle or giving up his idealology and  be a contended and loyal employee?
作者: icing    時間: 2009-5-13 08:30

at the very least not NDP
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2009-5-13 08:32

3# masterbear
Even Carol James admits that British Columbian trust Liberal would
better manage the economy. I truly admire and respect James as
an social advocate, just cannot trust the NDP to run or ruin the province,
once burns, always scares.
作者: sheep    時間: 2009-5-13 08:41

3# masterbear
Even Carol James admits that British Columbian trust Liberal would
better manage the economy. I truly admire and respect James as
an social advocate, just cannot trust the NDP to run o ...
somewhereintime 發表於 2009-5-13 09:32

So, now you cook for pleasure and teach people not to get burn while cooking.
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2009-5-13 08:42

11# sheep

Exactly, safety first
作者: Catpiano    時間: 2009-5-13 09:26

Man ..  I think you are talking about Brian Campbell!
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2009-5-13 09:47

13# Catpiano
Who is Brian Campell? is he related to Gordxx?
作者: clearance    時間: 2009-5-13 10:38

13# Catpiano
Who is Brian Campell? is he related to Gordxx?
somewhereintime 發表於 2009-5-13 10:47


brian campbell is a hockey player from chicago blackhawks
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2009-5-13 10:53

15# clearance
Brian must  be good then
作者: Catpiano    時間: 2009-5-13 11:08

本帖最後由 Catpiano 於 2009-5-13 12:14 編輯

Yup .. that is why ..  I was wondering ..   

As most sensitive topic for Vancouver people are Chicago Black Hawks .. and how good their player is ..  and Brian Camp is one awesome player ..  he does help the Hawks to kick the Canucks out ...  lol ..

http://blackhawks.nhl.com/team/a ... ce=page&tab=crs

One of the best Canadian player!  ^_^
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2009-5-13 11:15

I just want to listen to more thoughts...

What makes you think Liberals is better?  Most people view the economy is much more important than other things such as health care, child care, crime fighting, etc?

The last economy boom was because of what Gord did or it's because our bro US did very well?  Under Gord, we had jobs but this also fueled the real estate rally which made Vancouver RE so out of touch.  Is that better for us normal citizens?  I know Gord made many businesses happy (partly by not raising the rediculously low min wage)...
作者: fibbi    時間: 2009-5-13 11:20

18# shutterbug


First, I"m not buying the "left" wing NDP ideologist(sp?).  And I'm against union...so..that's the first reason for not voting NDP.
And back in the days when NDP was in power, lots of scandals as well. And one of the best "contribution" was freezing the university tuition. While that seems good, but at the end, the govt has no more $ to spend and "sheep hair comes from sheep body"... I don't like how they manage the budget this way lor.
作者: news    時間: 2009-5-13 11:27

wht i dun like abt ndp is tht...all they talk abt is spend this and spend tht on welfare without an actual plan on how to get the money to spend
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2009-5-13 11:32

18# shutterbug
Liberals may not be the prime choice, but NDP is surely the worst in the bad lot.
I did not see how well they manage healthcare , education and welfare in 1991-2000. They issued the back to work decree that cost them dearly too.
In order to provide good healthcare, education and welfare, we need a lot on funding, and where do the money come from when we scared away all the investors?
Can we give the Pacific Cat, Pulp Mills  to the union and ask them to  run the business without subsidizing?  It is true that the real estate soared after Expo 86, and some people suffered too, but without Expo 86, Vancouver could be  just like White Rock,
or Victoria, a nice place to live but difficult to make a living.
Don't forget most of our infra-structure and schools were built in 50's -70's, with the growing population, we need to upgrade and strengthen the systems badly, I do not think the NDP can create a climate to attract investor.
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2009-5-13 11:35

I had a hard timing voting yesterday because I don't know who to choose.  I personally don't like unions too and of course I remember Glen Clark and his ferry project, etc!  On the other hand, I don't like how Gord only focuses on the business atmosphere and scracficed all other things that are also very important.  The number of gang related killing in the last few months is just scary and unacceptable in my opinion.  It makes me feel like living in NY or LA.  Even if businesses are doing well, it really doesn't mean that they will share their profits with regular employees.  So at the end of the day, who is better off?
作者: news    時間: 2009-5-13 11:41

i will take tht over the so called better welfare from ndp any day
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2009-5-13 11:45

本帖最後由 somewhereintime 於 2009-5-13 11:49 編輯

22# shutterbug
I want a safe neighbourhood too, not just saying like Gabxxx.
But I think the gang activities is not as bad as 80's, there were shooting
and group street fights among 5-6 large Chinese gangs, Big Circle Gangs,
Viet-Ching gangs, red Eagles, Lotus, Russian, Hispanic, Hindu gangs etc.
There were even group fights in high schools that involved KungFu Schools
to intervene. And they collected extortions from Chinatown merchants, run
underground casinos  in Chinatown etc. but none of those has really bothered
me, although I had break-in for a few time.
Promoting business does not necessary sacrificing quality social services, try to
talk to your MLA's, both the Liberal or NDP, urge them to table the issues. Try to
get something positive done instead of advocating class struggle, even the CCP and
Russian ditched decade ago.
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2009-5-13 11:45

21# somewhereintime


It is true that the real estate soared after Expo 86, and some people suffered too, but without Expo 86, Vancouver could be  just like White Rock,
or Victoria, a nice place to live but difficult to make a living.


I have a big doubt about this.  Many people were living happily before 86 and making a living.  Houses were cheap, people have jobs.  Although they were not making big bucks, I'm sure they were happier than if they have to start in a situation like what we have today.

Liberal's policy is to cut back on almost everything and to tax like crazy.  Why are we paying so much more property tax now, parking tax in the talks, carbon tax?  Although Gord gave back small peanuts (income tax credit increase, etc), things don't add up.  We're still at a loss I think.  Health care system is on the verge to collapse.  What did Gord do to eliminate unions?  I can't see anything yet other than giving them raises after raises.

Also the NDP you were referring to was 10 years ago.  People changed, places changed, we cannot give them a second chance?
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2009-5-13 11:47

22# shutterbug
I want a safe neighbourhood too, not just saying like Gabxxx.
But I think the gang activities is not as bad as 80's, there were shooting
and group street fights among 5-6 large Chines ...
somewhereintime 發表於 2009-5-13 12:45

Do you know how many gangs we have now?  I think the recent number is 125!

Those things that happened in the 80's is just peanuts compared to now.  More things to come later I think, just watch.  If they can't control the drugs, they will legalize it.  Some people think that's OK but I definitely don't.
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2009-5-13 11:49

Btw, Translink sucks.  Gord please fix that now!
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2009-5-13 11:53

Actually RE didn't go up that much after 86 compared to what we had in the last 6 years!
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2009-5-13 11:54

i will take tht over the so called better welfare from ndp any day
news 發表於 2009-5-13 12:41

what do you mean by welfare?  you mean real walfare, like what homeless people are getting or you mean social services?

If former, Gord is not spending any less than before I think.
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2009-5-13 12:00

Do you know how many gangs we have now?  I think the recent number is 125!

Those things that happened in the 80's is just peanuts compared to now.  More things to come later I think, just watch.  If ...
shutterbug 發表於 2009-5-13 11:47

I really don't know much about gang activities, I seldom encounter them.
I strongly against legalized drug, I rallied and wrote on anti-dope  in HK early 70's.
Yes, Translink sucks big time, we should have a saying and control  over our transit system.
I'm neither union worker or big business, so I could be more neutral in political pov
作者: SiuBLoDau    時間: 2009-5-13 12:08

I'm in the wonderful Fraserview area...

G Yiu sucks, while C Heed yucks.  Liberal isn't that good, while NDP is really bad.

By eliminating the worse, I picked Liberal.  I think most people vote by elimination.
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2009-5-13 12:17

I'm in the wonderful Fraserview area...

G Yiu sucks, while C Heed yucks.  Liberal isn't that good, while NDP is really bad.

By eliminating the worse, I picked Liberal.  I think most people vote by e ...
SiuBLoDau 發表於 2009-5-13 12:08

That is what I did too
作者: MSN04    時間: 2009-5-13 13:35

I had a hard timing voting yesterday because I don't know who to choose.  I personally don't like unions too and of course I remember Glen Clark and his ferry project, etc!  On the other hand, I don't ...
shutterbug 發表於 2009-5-13 12:35


How do you think NDP is gonna fix the gun shooting problem if they won the election?
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2009-5-13 13:51

33# MSN04
It is a very complicate issue and no quick fix to it, no matter who is in power.
Drug and firearm control  should be a good start.
作者: peter236    時間: 2009-5-13 14:31

I'm in the wonderful Fraserview area...

G Yiu sucks, while C Heed yucks.  Liberal isn't that good, while NDP is really bad.

By eliminating the worse, I picked Liberal.  I think most people vote by e ...
SiuBLoDau 發表於 2009-5-13 13:08


Since you cannot do it better than those candidates, you have to vote for the lesser moron.
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2009-5-13 14:32

本帖最後由 shutterbug 於 2009-5-13 15:34 編輯

NDP did mention more police and presecutors, which Gord cut back on.  Of course this is gonna cost money.  Gord did cut back on jails, sheriffs and stuff.  Also, asking for a change in the prosecution process, sentencing, etc?  Well, "yum mao lun"...if Gord let the gangs do their money laundry here, it could help the econ and RE to boom as well, don't you think?  haha...

There was a firearm registry somewhere that cost lots of tax payers' money and it didn't work very well.  Which party was that and was that federal or provincial?
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2009-5-13 14:54

Kinda OT but interesting read:

Why Is There a Drug Problem?
http://www.theadvocates.org/freeman/8902leef.html
作者: rainbow-davie    時間: 2009-5-13 15:12

本帖最後由 rainbow-davie 於 2009-5-13 16:13 編輯

lol.. Gun shooting & gang problem cannot be solved by putting more money..

Come on.. face the truth of our cops... the more money dump into this group of morons, the less seat we can find in Tim Horltons.   The more chance we will get ticket on the road.  More gun shot from our polics to innocents..

I don't think money will convert into efficency ... in terms of our police.

What we need is to really look into the problem deep within. e.g. the culture.. the management..  do the adjustment correctly.  If we need money to improve, then invest. If we just put money & hire more idiots, but the current system cannot manage a bigger team, then it will turn into bad investment.  And it is the worst.
作者: tofu    時間: 2009-5-13 15:14

somewhereintime 8#

i think you misunderstood, i just mean "why not" campbell again.

btw, lower education fee has pro/con.  few years ago, the price for post grad. program is only 50% of what it is now.  but now the post grad. program is only for the one who is rich or really smart.  a poor person is hesitate to take a post grad. program since he may not make enough to pay back the fees.  at the end, the rich people are more educated and earn more money.
i think balance is what we are looking for.
作者: tofu    時間: 2009-5-13 15:29

""" Most people view the economy is much more important than other things such as health care, child care, crime fighting, etc?"""
because most of us are came from a country which is more concern about economic and has no benefit.
just like some people, they may go to see their doctor once/twice a year, or they just go to see their chinese doctor.  their parents help them to take care their children and.... so for them they don't really use/enjoy the benefit, but they do pay for it.  so benefit for us is more like an bonus that is something which can trade off for "making more money".  but for the one who get used to it or use it, will think it is not replaced by anything.
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2009-5-13 15:36

本帖最後由 shutterbug 於 2009-5-13 16:43 編輯
lol.. Gun shooting & gang problem cannot be solved by putting more money..

Come on.. face the truth of our cops... the more money dump into this group of morons, the less seat we can find in Tim Horl ...
rainbow-davie 發表於 2009-5-13 16:12

Who doesn't know mother is a female?  Changing the "justice/law environment" cannot happen overnight.  Hiring more police will have an effect (big or small) immediately.  You think politicians are dumb?

Anyway, I think our police to population is dropping so adding some makes sense.  Whether they're efficient in fighting crime, that's another complex area.

Interesting read
http://www.primetimecrime.com/co ... 0505Wickstead01.htm
作者: rainbow-davie    時間: 2009-5-13 15:40

somewhereintime 8#

i think you misunderstood, i just mean "why not" campbell again.

btw, lower education fee has pro/con.  few years ago, the price for post grad. program is only 50% of what it is n ...
tofu 發表於 2009-5-13 16:14


agree.. like in the NDP era, the tuition fee is so low.. however, it takes way longer time to graduate.. u know. time = money.. especially in teenage.   the good thing is, I have more times to hang out with fds and more time to play. LOL

i think tuition fee now is okay. but we need more programs ( scholarship..etc) to help the "HARD WORKING" student who cannot afford the tuition fee.

May be something like the 'stamps' in highschool.. whoever get an A, receive $500 credit. B $50.. C no money.   so, it is also an incentive for students to study hard, instead of chase girl hard or play wii hard.
作者: sheep    時間: 2009-5-13 16:45

agree.. like in the NDP era, the tuition fee is so low.. however, it takes way longer time to graduate.. u know. time = money.. especially in teenage.   the good thing is, I have more times to hang  ...
rainbow-davie 發表於 2009-5-13 16:40

But it is their parents to pay for the fees. They won't border
作者: BiscottiGelato    時間: 2009-5-13 17:09

本帖最後由 BiscottiGelato 於 2009-5-13 17:33 編輯
agree.. like in the NDP era, the tuition fee is so low.. however, it takes way longer time to graduate.. u know. time = money.. especially in teenage.   the good thing is, I have more times to hang  ...
rainbow-davie 發表於 2009-5-13 15:40


More programs? Why not attack it the right way and create more jobs, by attracting more investments and businesses? The students can repay their loans this way then, no?

A lot of people have the wrong approach to university anyways. University is, more or less, just a tool to make $. A lot of people just wander in with a huge student loan because 'you must go into university' and come out starving because they have no clue what they are trying to achieve from uni. No program can help someone who made a wrong choice in life, can it? To make it worse the loan amount is so great that it became a non-self repaying loan, as they are spent on extras like a new ipod or a new notebook....

More jobs, less student loan, more scholarship might actually ease this situation more...
作者: BiscottiGelato    時間: 2009-5-13 17:32

21# somewhereintime




I have a big doubt about this.  Many people were living happily before 86 and making a living.  Houses were cheap, people have jobs.  Although they were not making big bucks, ...
shutterbug 發表於 2009-5-13 11:45


There's a cut back only because the spending spree was way overdone before. The cutback will have to be even stronger in order to bring things back to a sustainable level. Imagine you make 5k a month and you spent 10k this month. You'd have to cut back a lot the subsequent monthes in order to go back into a sustainable spending pattern? In fact by overspending 5k this one month, you'd probably have to cut back 1k for the next 5 monthes, the effect is far reaching. If anything, blame the NDP.

I believe the property tax and the parking taxes are by the municiple government anyways? Property tax hike is primarily due to land valuation going WAY UP anyways.

On Carbon Tax... do you know what this is for at all? Yes it definately generates revenue, but that's definately not the primary purpose of a Carbon Tax... If anything, this is one tax I don't mind to pay if it achieves the effect of making people pay for (& thus reduce) the natural resource they burn and the air they pollute. Both the Liberal and the NDP have a revenue generating method to control carbon emission anyways. I don't see this as an extra tax which the Liberal have put on it's people, not over of what the NDP is proposing anyways. I'll leave the argument between Carbon Tax vs Cap N Trade outside of this thread for now.

IMO, NDP basically represent spending tomorrows money today. Regardless of the specific policies, as long as they are sticking by this model, it will be unsustainable and will drive us to the ground. This is especially true as the next 20 years will be nothing like the last 20 years. Achieving sustainable growth, both in terms of the economy and on preserving nature, is going ot be what the future is going to be about. Liberal of course, like all government is not perfect and would always be in fact far from perfect, but I'll definately not gamble with the NDP in leading us through such a future.
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2009-5-13 19:06

NDP could be over spending before I have no objection about that.  However, do you think Liberals has cut back far too deep causing many social tension and issues?  Remember how Gord proposed to give his fellows a raise of more than 40% while the inflation rate is only about 2-3%?  Both parties need to find the balance in funding and efficiency!

If the provincial is cutting back on the money given to the city, is this a provincial or municipal problem?  I don't agree that municipal should rely on provincial funding but money has to come from somewhere somehow, hence parking tax.
作者: peter236    時間: 2009-5-13 20:00

""" Most people view the economy is much more important than other things such as health care, child care, crime fighting, etc?"""
because most of us are came from a country which is more concern abou ...
tofu 發表於 2009-5-13 16:29


The economy is important because the government needs money to pay for health care, child care and education etc. With money, you can spend it on whatever you want.
作者: rainbow-davie    時間: 2009-5-13 20:11

More programs? Why not attack it the right way and create more jobs, by attracting more investments and businesses? The students can repay their loans this way then, no?

A lot of people have the wr ...
BiscottiGelato 發表於 2009-5-13 18:09


I should clarify.. i mean financial program.
作者: rainbow-davie    時間: 2009-5-13 20:15

NDP could be over spending before I have no objection about that.  However, do you think Liberals has cut back far too deep causing many social tension and issues?  Remember how Gord proposed to give  ...
shutterbug 發表於 2009-5-13 20:06



there is something I observer.. please correct me if I'm wrong.
I remember, during NDP era, there were a lot of strike,etc  even more tension with Unions.  and some Unions get big bucks (e.g. BC ferries)..
HOwever, in these 8 years, I feel that there were much less strike.  hmmm

if that's right, then what did it imply?
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2009-5-13 21:54

""" Most people view the economy is much more important than other things such as health care, child care, crime fighting, etc?"""
because most of us are came from a country which is more concern abou ...
tofu 發表於 2009-5-13 15:29

I was born in China, lived 20 years in HK & Macau before immigrating here in 1977, with no spare money and 3 siblings  going to school. I used to work 2 full-time and 1 part-time job, over 100 hours a week, I never collect EI or welfare, so there is something I missed out being a Canadian. I just cannot understand why people could be so depending and inflexible. Time changes and so must people, Canadian cannot just rely on the government to provide all their needs. We need to motivate people to work harder to build a better future for next generation.
作者: tofu    時間: 2009-5-13 22:33

50#
other people may ask why chinese works so hard and concern money money money only.  we came from a country with no/min. benefit, we believe we need to work hard when we were young in order to save some money to take care ourselves when we are old.  of course we better save some money for our children/grandchildren as well.  but this is not what the canadian born XXX believe.  they born in a country with all these benefits, they just retain what they have.  life is short, enjoy our life.  govn't should support what we needs and we will give govn't what we have extra.  people are working harder these days, but it needs a slow transition period.  compare to people in some inner cities, vancouver people works really hard already.  some companies in inner cities can close for a month or two for summer break.  also government provided benefits are no good? i don't think so, taiwan has somethings similar to msp not too long long ago.  hk is thinking to have kind of msp & pension plan program, and expand the free education to 12 years.  i think it is all about "value".  we just don't have the same "value"
作者: MSN04    時間: 2009-5-13 22:52

NDP could be over spending before I have no objection about that.  However, do you think Liberals has cut back far too deep causing many social tension and issues?  Remember how Gord proposed to give  ...
shutterbug 發表於 2009-5-13 20:06


hmm... i think the cut back is necessary?  As far as I understand, the BC Liberal is a party that is very conservative on the budget.  I mean, if there is only so much money in the pool, that's all we have.

As for the raise, I personally have no problem with that.  If someone do reasonably well with the job, a raise is deserved.  I do think that the Libs did pretty well.  (isn't that the reason why they are back for 4 more years?)  But yeah, u can argue that 53% is a lot!  but it is not insane, esp no really a lot of people getting that much money.  Campbell get 186k, MLA get about 98k after increase.  The vancouver police chief is getting 193k!!!  I would think a reasonably-ok premier should deserve more than a vancouver police chief :p  I mean.. come on... 120k (before the 53% raise) is even worse than an engineer.
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2009-5-14 08:19

there is something I observer.. please correct me if I'm wrong.
I remember, during NDP era, there were a lot of strike,etc  even more tension with Unions.  and some Unions get big bucks (e.g. BC fe ...
rainbow-davie 發表於 2009-5-13 21:15

I don't think the strikes during NDP were more than now.  I think about the same.
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2009-5-14 08:35

本帖最後由 shutterbug 於 2009-5-14 09:37 編輯
hmm... i think the cut back is necessary?  As far as I understand, the BC Liberal is a party that is very conservative on the budget.  I mean, if there is only so much money in the pool, that's all  ...
MSN04 發表於 2009-5-13 23:52

So raising minimun wage, which we are the second lowest in Canada but with highest cost of living, is not OK while giving a raise to his party is perfectly legit?  Where is the balance?

My view is that he introduced more cheap labour and pumping up the employment rate on paper without really helping the living conditions.  Our province has the highest child poverty rate in Canada, do you know that?

Btw, get ready for another increase in carbon tax on July 1!
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2009-5-14 08:41

本帖最後由 shutterbug 於 2009-5-14 09:45 編輯

I'm surprised that nobody mentioned that this dude was drinking and driving, breaking the law and refusing to step down.  Shame on him la...where's the credibility?
作者: sheep    時間: 2009-5-14 08:47

This is how lovely we Canadians are!
You admit your wrong doing, they give you a second chance.
see the speeding guy also got re-elected.
Let see when will we see them commit the same again.
作者: MSN04    時間: 2009-5-14 09:49

So raising minimun wage, which we are the second lowest in Canada but with highest cost of living, is not OK while giving a raise to his party is perfectly legit?  Where is the balance?

My view is t ...
shutterbug 發表於 2009-5-14 09:35


Two totally different things and should not be put together for comparison la.

Raising the MLA's salary does not hurt small business *directly*.  But, increasing the minimun wage does.  If I run a small business and my cost increases to a point that the business is not profitable, what would I do?
1. fold the business --> instead of getting minimum wage, my employees get nth (may be EI, but where money coming from again?  Tax payers!)
2. Either cut the workers' working hour evenly, or just cut 1 or 2 person.
3. Increase my service fee or the unit price of the product i am selling. --> further increase cost of living.

For the MLA, similar senario would be:
If a company does well, the company give the employees, who contribute to the sucess, wage increase, and i don't think those employees get minimum wage anyways...

o well... I am not good at expressing myself, but i hope u get my point.
作者: rockypath    時間: 2009-5-14 11:34

My family never gave a minimum wage and we always give a raise to employees who perform well. Therefore, the wage of our employees is already well above the minimum wage level.

If the government raises the minimum wage to $10, the impact is that we also have to raise our current wage standard since our employees believe they desert a raise. For example, their current rate is $12 and they will be thinking of $14 or more. We certainly will take a big hit financially. A 20-28% increase on wage expense (wage + EI + CPP + vocation pay) during a financial turmoil like this? I don’t think it is viable for us under the current situation. We certainly have to cut back human power if we run out of option.  If we cannot keep our head above the water, how can we take care of our employees?

NDP is just simple minded and does not have the knowledge and experience required to manage and develop BC economy. I am glad it did not win the election.
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2009-5-14 12:06

本帖最後由 shutterbug 於 2009-5-14 13:11 編輯

I totally get your points, and it's not a easy problem to fix now because the Liberals screwed it up by freezing it for 8 years.  How stupid is that.  It doesn't even match inflation, which means poor people are poorer every year.  It should have been a gradual increase instead of a sudden $2 jump.  See the point?  If they keep freezing it for another 4 years...ha...only you can imagine!

Really, if the econ is really that much better under Libs, small businesses should be able to support maybe a $9 min wage.  Apparently, small businesses still suck here, yeah get Gord to fix that please!
作者: rainbow-davie    時間: 2009-5-14 12:20

My family never gave a minimum wage and we always give a raise to employees who perform well. Therefore, the wage of our employees is already well above the minimum wage level.

If the government rai ...
rockypath 發表於 2009-5-14 12:34

Applause Applause Applause
作者: rainbow-davie    時間: 2009-5-14 12:33

I totally get your points, and it's not a easy problem to fix now because the Liberals screwed it up by freezing it for 8 years.  How stupid is that.  It doesn't even match inflation, which means poor ...
shutterbug 發表於 2009-5-14 13:06


under NDP, small businesses were out of business.
under Libs. small businesses are doing business.

hmm poorer get poorer? I don't see that it is getting worse.   lol.   I think the previous reform of EI had already given a better out-of-job security.
And if you are really poor, you don't have to pay for MDS, etc.

What my opinion is, minimum wage is good for provide minimum cost of living.  not minimum for cover good living.   And the wage should be determined by
1)  The market.
2)  The job performance rated by the employer.

My theory is, the government should provide minimum protect for wage, but the main focus is to improve the business environment & reducing the operation cost.  This will in turn increase the job market.  As the demand for staff increase, and the supply won't increase sharply (why? Open a business may require a number of staffs. -- elastic demand..  Local qualified people are fixed & migrated workers are uneasy -- inelastic supply).   Thus, it will cleary push the wage up without government intervention.  Good Example:  Alberta.  

So, that's what the government should do.  LOOK for long term & set up good environment.  NOt just giving out money, setting up strict rules for business.
You know, business cannot survive if there are too many retrictions. who will run a business under tough environment?  common sense.

Another example is.. Will your mom&dad invest money to provide your better grow-up environment, or will your parents let you grow up but just give you money each month?   Hey, it is another real example as we all know about this immigrants / oversea student problem.  Which one is better ?  you know the answer.
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2009-5-14 13:09

本帖最後由 somewhereintime 於 2009-5-14 13:19 編輯
So raising minimun wage, which we are the second lowest in Canada but with highest cost of living, is not OK while giving a raise to his party is perfectly legit?  Where is the balance?

My view is t ...
shutterbug 發表於 2009-5-14 08:35

That is what NDP tells us.
Does raising minimum wage really help? I don't think so. It is so difficult to find good workers, only fast food franchise can manage to hire non-skilled staffs for minimum pay. My colleagues pay $17-19 hourly wages for dishwashers and even Chinese restaurants would  pay $2500 cash salary. The minimum wage   in Alberta is similar to BC but most people make $12-14 for entry level job. Imposing minimum pay would put a lot of small business out of business.
According to Federal's info,  Richmond is listed under the below-poverty level cities, why? simply because the residents do not pay tax on their oversea income!
作者: rainbow-davie    時間: 2009-5-14 13:27

"Richmond is listed under the below-poverty level cities, "
really? hahahaah ridiculous.  But, you better not say it out... if Media finds it out, Revenue will knock everyone doors.. no good no good.. LOL
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2009-5-14 13:29

"Richmond is listed under the below-poverty level cities, "
really? hahahaah ridiculous.  But, you better not say it out... if Media finds it out, Revenue will knock everyone doors.. no good no good.. ...
rainbow-davie 發表於 2009-5-14 13:27

It is facts, I read a lot of Fed documents since I work with Elections Canada
作者: chunsh    時間: 2009-5-14 15:58

I don't know about who can do business under which political party
I just know that when NDP took in charge, everyone who shouldn't go on strike, strike!!!
作者: eslmath    時間: 2009-5-14 16:09

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作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2009-5-14 17:09

本帖最後由 somewhereintime 於 2009-5-14 17:12 編輯
You people must love the Carbon Tax introduced by the Liberals?
eslmath 發表於 2009-5-14 16:09

Carbon tax is one single issue,
As long as the retail gas price is affordable, I try to live with.
Just cannot imagine doing business under NDP regime.
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2009-5-14 17:18

You don't see how poorer gets poorer?  People who are getting min wage cannot even catch up to inflation.  Is that enough to say poorer gets poorer?  Maybe if you're not in this category, you will never be able to feel their pain.

Also, the previous reform of EI gave better job security?  I only know that they shorten the benefit period and more restrictions to qualify.  Is that better or worse?  Better for the government who's paying and worse for citizens.

Alberta is a different sceneario.  They have oil.  Do we have oil?  Oil companies drove the econ over there.  Their inflation is really high so their salary needs to match up.  If inflation is that high here, I don't think people can get by.  Some of them then will start making money illegally.

I agree with what you said that we should look long term.  However, how "far" should we do this?  By scraficing a lot of what I think necessities?  You know how long is the wait time for medical treatment right now?  Oh I see, so that they can bring in private clinics right?  I'm just saying we need a good balance.  I think BC is falling apart in other aspects beside business.
作者: rockypath    時間: 2009-5-14 17:29

68# shutterbug

Let's try to look at the same issue from a different perspective. Do you mind to explain why do you think business will do better, BC people will have a better life and the BC economy will continue to grow if NDP won the election and take over the office?
作者: eslmath    時間: 2009-5-14 17:36

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作者: eslmath    時間: 2009-5-14 17:43

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作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2009-5-14 17:45

本帖最後由 somewhereintime 於 2009-5-14 17:50 編輯
You don't see how poorer gets poorer?  People who are getting min wage cannot even catch up to inflation.  Is that enough to say poorer gets poorer?  Maybe if you're not in this category, you will nev ...
shutterbug 發表於 2009-5-14 17:18

Who is getting min  pay here?  The majority of them are:
1. Students work at McD and alikes
2. Some people who cannot speak English and have to stuck in Chinatown
3. The foodservers
4. Some interns
I feel sorry for those who got stuck in Chinatown for their entire life, their employers
  are shameful. Then there are  ethnic farm-workers who would get pay by the day, alway below minimum pay, and not covered by WCB and EI. but that's illegal
A good waiter/ress would make $200-$500 daily so they do not mind whatever on the
pay cheque;   interns are getting their paid training, high school kids are making spending money.
I have never receive min pay nor anyone in my extended family, my son made $12  working part-time at PNE when he was in high school, higher pay for washing dishes.
I have never collect EI or welfare for the past 32 years. I think cost of basic standard is affordable here, low income family are eligible for MSP exempted and the food are inexpensive.Bus-fare is bit high yet affordable.
At Vancouver civic election last year, the union leaders advocated to bump up minimum pay to $20, do you think low income families  could be better off then?
作者: eslmath    時間: 2009-5-14 17:48

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作者: eslmath    時間: 2009-5-14 17:52

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作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2009-5-14 17:54

本帖最後由 somewhereintime 於 2009-5-14 17:55 編輯
somewhereintime,

If you say no one is making the minimium wage, what's the problem of raising it then?

Everyone is already earning at least $12?
eslmath 發表於 2009-5-14 17:48

Any job at UBC is $15 and up per hour plus benefits, some with full medical
I can get $17.95 an hour plus full benefit and medical for washing dishes
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2009-5-14 17:54

68# shutterbug

Let's try to look at the same issue from a different perspective. Do you mind to explain why do you think business will do better, BC people will have a better life and the BC econom ...
rockypath 發表於 2009-5-14 18:29

I think I read in Vancouver Sun that even Carole James admited that NDP might not be better than Liberals in terms of economy.  I'm pretty sure that Liberals is good in doing business, but (and this is what I wanted to convey throughout this thread) are we citizens very well off in just focusing on business and scraficing a lot of necessary social services?  I think can feel the impact of this already, and if we don't fix it now we will never get it back.  So are we going that route?  Like health care in US for example?
作者: eslmath    時間: 2009-5-14 18:01

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作者: shutterbug    時間: 2009-5-14 18:06

本帖最後由 shutterbug 於 2009-5-14 19:07 編輯
Who is getting min  pay here?  The majority of them are:
1. Students work at McD and alikes
2. Some people who cannot speak English and have to stuck in Chinatown
3. The foodservers
4. Some interns
I ...
somewhereintime 發表於 2009-5-14 18:45

I really have a strong feeling when you said this.  Although not a lot of people are not getting exactly min wage, but many are not far off too.  The separation between rich and poor is getting bigger and bigger, that's a big problem!

Intresting read:
"BC's minimum wage should not be a poverty wage
Iglika Ivanova

Labour and social justice groups in BC have long urged the provincial government to increase the minimum wage to a level that guarantees a path out of poverty for a single person working full-year, full-time. Year after year, the government has turned them down with the argument that BC already enjoys the highest minimum wage in Canada and raising it further would be uncompetitive.

Back in 2001, when BC's minimum wage was increased to $8, we could indeed lay claim to the highest minimum wage in Canada (with the glaring exception of the $6 "first job" wage). But BC's minimum wage has been frozen for a staggering seven years, and other provinces have moved on.

Between March 31st and May 1st 2008, minimum wage increases came into effect in all other nine provinces. As a result, BC slipped down the rankings to having one of the lowest minimums in the country, along with Newfoundland (also $8), PEI and New Brunswick (both paying $7.75).

And that's not all. A number of provinces have committed to further increases over the next several years, including some of our fellow bottom-ranked provinces. For example, Newfoundland has just announced plans to reach a $10 minimum wage by 2010 and PEI's is scheduled to rise to $8 later this year.

It is time to raise the minimum wage in BC. Not just because the rest of Canada is doing it, but also because you can't live on $8 per hour - especially here in BC.

A minimum wage earner working 40 hours a week all year makes $16,640. This is considerably less than Statistics Canada's low-income cut off (or "poverty line") for a single person in a major city - $21,666 in 2007. It is less than the low-income cut off for even the smallest urban area - $16,968.

Clearly, paid work in today's labour market is not a guaranteed path out of poverty even for individuals with no children. If the market does not provide an adequate wage for full-time, full-year workers then the government must intervene. Legislating a decent minimum wage can be an effective anti-poverty tool and it would be cheaper than providing direct income supports to the working poor.

To earn an annual income equivalent to the 2007 low-income cut off for large cities ($21,666), a worker would have to make about $10.40 per hour. Adjusted for inflation, this is equivalent to the $10 minimum wage that labour and social advocacy groups called for back in 2005.

Along with setting the minimum wage to a level that lifts individuals out of poverty, the government should index it to inflation. This would ensure that the real wages of the lowest paid workers do not erode over time, as they often have in the past. For example, our $8 minimum wage is worth 11 per cent less today than when it was introduced in 2001.

This is not a novel idea. Yukon's government brought in annual inflation adjustments effective April 1st, 2007. Alberta's minimum wage is also indexed, although it is adjusted based on the average increase in weekly wages over the past year instead of inflation rates.

Many critics claim that minimum wage policies have a limited effect because few people actually work for the minimum wage. Only 4.6 per cent of BC's paid employees earned minimum wage in 2007 according to BC Stats. However, raising the minimum wage above $10 per hour would also benefit the much larger group of workers who currently earn less than $10.

More than 16 per cent of BC employees - 300,000-plus people - worked for less than $10 per hour in 2007. The proportion of BC jobs paying low wages has barely declined since 1997, despite a booming economy and record low unemployment in the province. Increasing the minimum wage will not eliminate the problem of the working poor, but it is an important part of a comprehensive anti-poverty strategy.

It's time to take the politics out of the minimum wage and scrap the old practice of sharp one-time increases followed by long periods of inaction. Let's set the minimum wage using clear criteria (such as setting at it a level which allows a single full-time worker with no dependents to escape poverty) and then index it to inflation to ensure its value is preserved over time.

-- Iglika Ivanova is an economist and researcher with the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives. www.policyalternatives.ca"
作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2009-5-14 18:07

I think I read in Vancouver Sun that even Carole James admited that NDP might not be better than Liberals in terms of economy.  I'm pretty sure that Liberals is good in doing business, but (and this  ...
shutterbug 發表於 2009-5-14 17:54

I think otherwise, we have been spending so much in social services, education and medicare already, eventually it is going to drain our economy IF we do not try to keep them under control, monitor carefully and bring in more revenue to cover the expenses.  Just look at the financial budget, we have very little portion left after the big 3 for , say infra-structure, transportation and trade training
作者: eslmath    時間: 2009-5-14 18:09

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作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2009-5-14 18:28

本帖最後由 somewhereintime 於 2009-5-14 18:36 編輯

78# shutterbug
If you take the ideology from policyalternatives serious, you must be either a person with heart of gold or insane. They are simply the counterpart of Fraser Institute which you should not trust either.
A simple math for you, if you take 50% away from the 16% workers earning less than $10 per hour(I assume they are the foodservers who would make more than you and me combined), and 5% as interns and school kids making spending money, then only 3% of  working people  actually fall in the bracket. It is not fair but not the worst situation.
作者: shutterbug    時間: 2009-5-14 18:37

I don't know what kind of group policyalternatives is, I just found the article and it seems to be giving out the stats.  Of course I can't verify their stats.  Whether I'm insane or not, it doesn't really matter cuz someone will think I am and someone will think I ain't.  However, it's always better to look at things from other angles, good or bad.

Since I don't know about that group, can you tell me why you think they're so bad?
作者: eslmath    時間: 2009-5-14 18:42

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作者: somewhereintime    時間: 2009-5-14 18:45

I don't know what kind of group policyalternatives is, I just found the article and it seems to be giving out the stats.  Of course I can't verify their stats.  Whether I'm insane or not, it doesn't r ...
shutterbug 發表於 2009-5-14 18:37

They do research and studies for the leftist politicians with a fee, same as the Fraser Institute do for conservative politicans. Joy McPhail studied economy at Economy Institute in London , which made her a great Minister of Finance for Glen Clark.
You can use their stat and info for reference,  but it is an expensive  prescription
for our government
作者: rainbow-davie    時間: 2009-5-14 21:07

Should we do our LYK non-bias survey?



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