Ultraman

原帖由 ricrick 於 2009-1-5 19:41 發表
e? katamari 是敵基督的人bor

其實每個宗教都有不足之處、解不通的事，但每個宗教都係導人向善
每個人也有自由去信什麼，只要不太扁激就得啦

我又想問katamari你是信什麼？ ...

We have no idea what religious background katamari is, he/she only brought up a discussion. But obviously you are a Christian or at least a Christianity believer and is trying to defend immediately. If there are really those two types of Christians-- "immature" and "mature" ones, you may fall into the "immature" category already.

Ultraman

My thoughts:
- Whether there is a god, or more than one god exist in the world?

- Assuming that there is a god, or more than one god, which one is the "true" god, or which ones are?

- There is only the Christianity God (the same one of Catholic) claimed Himself the "true" and "only" god, as well as He is the only "creator" of the world. How can we know if that is true or not? Would there be a chance that the real true one just didn't say anything? It doesn't mean/prove that the one who stood out is the true and only god.

- It was unlikely to have that many people telling the same lie that "Jesus" is the God and be His witness of all the miracles and His resurrection. However, it's like David Copperfield playing those "unbelievable" magics nowadays and some people still thinks there must be "magic" (super natural power). Would it be any chance that people in olden days were tricked by that "Jesus" cuz people at that time were even more naive and innocent?

- No matter how people identify Christians, say "mature" and immature" (or maybe more groups), I believe that human can't be perfect anyways. Even Christians could be in "mature" category, they're still imperfect and thus they still have different weakness anyways. Whenever people see "bad witness", Christians would say "oh, those are only occasional cases by immature Christians, mature Christians won't be like that..... " etc. But well, so called "mature Christians" are also imperfect, they can't be any standard or to represent their God in any way anyways. "Immaturity" is just an excuse.
And back to those comments, which might be valid is, "immature" Christians are still having their church lives, where those "mature" Christians had left their churches and back to their normal lives already.

Ultraman

原帖由 mcjohnjohn 於 2009-1-6 00:48 發表


Ultraman, what if there is someone on LYK who "greet" your whole family? Would you defend or fight back?
For me, I don't think defend or fight back is immature. If you treasure something and someone ...

So, since you're challenging me now, then I should or I can have license to smack you back with swear words? (just an example)
Do you understand why there are so many people (non-believers) who don't like Christians and Christianity? One of the reasons is, when non-believers are only asking questions (even in a sincere and kind way) Christians will turn on their defending mode automatically without a second thought most of the time. How can a peaceful and meaningful discussion continue?

Ultraman

原帖由 shutterbug 於 2009-1-5 22:51 發表
well, I don't know what Christians are you surrounded by but personally I haven't seen this kind of arguments around me very often....

Not related to your example...but do you think swearing is OK for Christians?  To me I don't think so, but to some they think it's not so bad...did the Bible mention any teachings about this...I'm sure it does!

Another example:
Why playing Mah Jong is not allowed (should say prohibited) in church but poker cards is (usually used for bridge games)? Christians' reason is, Mah Jong is a well-known gambling game/tool but bridge game is a kind of sport game. However, people can just play Mah Jong without gambling involved but on the other hand gambling can be involved in bridge games (even chess games). The key point is not the "impression" of the game but the actual playing part. Doesn't it?

Now back to the swearing case. Since a Christian shouldn't intend to do anything to hurt others, so he/she shouldn't swear to anyone (and probably that someone would be very likely to get hurt and feel upset and/or angry...). However, Christians can have anger feeling, and if they feel angry and want to vent out, they can drink a big glass of water, take a shower, shout out loud... , and why not swearing (to nobody) just to release their own anger?

Many Christians just like stated in the passage, they only followed the "rules" blindly.

Ultraman

原帖由 ricrick 於 2009-1-6 01:05 發表
GOD Bless You All. Amen

Mind me to ask, are you a Christian?

Ultraman

原帖由 daimo 於 2009-1-6 01:06 發表


But are you against the religion? (Y/N)

If the answer is Y, then I actually respect you for having the courage to say so.

Mind to clarify, there is difference between "against" and "not believing". "Against" could include doing something to oppose in an aggressive way, hurting and hating the other party. "Not believing" could be in a neutral situation, not really doing anything to oppose but just want to ask and know more.

Ultraman

原帖由 rockypath 於 2009-1-6 01:16 發表
I believe there are many immature Chritians arround and every single Chritian is not perfect. However, does it deny there is a God and there is a creator?

Maybe you dislike all Chritians, but it sho ...

How to prove the Christian God is the true and only creator? Only because of He said so?

Ultraman

原帖由 rockypath 於 2009-1-6 01:33 發表


For me, I first believe there must be a creator. Then I try to look for the creator (including Chritian God).

Believing in "No God" is also a relgion in my opinion. Poeple become the God of themse ...

OK, my POV, "creator" is just a name, a title, "it" could be a "god", any god, or just the "mother nature", or something human and scientist can't understand and explain. For something human and scientist can't understand and explain not necessary related to "god", "spirits", "super natural power", .... etc stuff like that.

Ultraman

原帖由 ricrick 於 2009-1-6 01:43 發表
佛家有云：信則有，不信則無，色即是空，空即是色，種善因，得善果，何必執著，苦苦痴纏到死時都帶不走的問題呢？神愛世人，甚至將祂的獨生子賜給他們，叫一切信祂的，不至滅亡，反得永生，冤有頭，責有主，放下屠刀，立地成佛。 ...

I see. You are a polytheist.

Ultraman

I think the original passage is to point out "基督徒八大惡劣特徵", not "基督教八大惡劣特徵". Who dare to say those 8 characters are not commonly found within Christians (say "immature ones)? The writer didn't say/against anything of "Jesus" and Christianity at all. But then (as usual and expected), many Christians and believers came out to defend hard of what they believe without rational discussion. That's definitely not what non-believers want to see.

Every time starting this kind of sensitive discussion would be like that. Non-believers still have many unanswered questions in mind, and the bad impression of Christians is keep accumulating.
(I'm not challenging or against-ing, just want to tell people the fact.)