peter236

hahaha, if you go to http://www.caochangqing.com, it is clear that the website is associated with VOA Voice of America and probably financed and supported by them.
Credibility should not be given to such propaganda.

peter236

I am just cautioning you that the Voice of America has a campaign against the Chinese. The whole world knows that.
Therefore, when you read their stuff, you have to see through their propaganda.

peter236

我有個日本朋友，曾經同佢討論過釣魚島／尖閣島的問題。都討論得好熱烈。不過佢提出的證據全都係satil你的文章裡面的論點，佢仲話上世紀初既時候日本已經有神社係島上。日方確實係有佢既論點。

點都好，我都好同意satil講既野。如果大陸真係覺得個島係自己既，點解當日本開始有動作既時候（講緊已經係上世紀既事）大陸唔出聲？

blueberry 發表於 2012-9-29 11:39

hahaha, either you was deceived by your Japanese friend, or your Japanese friend was deceived by the Japanese government.

First Sino-Japanese War 甲午戰爭
The First Sino-Japanese War (1 August 1894 – 17 April 1895) was fought between Qing Dynasty China and Meiji Japan.

By the Treaty of Shimonoseki 馬關條約, Ching dynasty ceded to Japan the Penghu islands, Taiwan( including Diaoyu islands) and parts of Liaodong Peninsula.

Basically, what happened was that Ching dynasty lost the First Sino-Japanese War to Meiji Japan. so Taiwan and Diaoyu islands etc were ceded to Japan.

So if you ask why didn't China protest when the Japanese build whatever on Diaoyu islands.
During early last century, Taiwan and Diaoyu islands were under Japanese occupation anyway (1895-1945). The Ching dynasty or later, the Republic of China could do nothing to stop Japan from building whatever on Diaoyu islands.

Tell your Japanese friend about this historical fact and don't be deceived by them anymore.

After the WWII, by the Cairo Declaration (1943) and by the Potsdam Declaration (1945):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Declaration

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potsdam_Declaration

All the territories Japan has stolen from China such as Manchuria (Dongbei), Formosa (Taiwan), and the Pescadores (Penghu), shall be restored to the Republic of China.

Treaty of San Francisco

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_San_Francisco

In 1972, the United States "reversion" of the Ryūkyūs occurred along with the ceding of control over the nearby (uninhabited) Senkaku Islands.[16] Both the People's Republic of China and the Republic of China, now commonly known as "Taiwan", argue that this agreement did not determine the ultimate sovereignty of the Senkaku Islands.

Basically, what happened was that the US gave Diaoyu islands to Japan for no reason at all. Again, it looks like the US is the trouble maker here.

peter236

First Sino-Japanese War 甲午戰爭
The First Sino-Japanese War (1 August 1894 – 17 April 1895) was fought between Qing Dynasty China and Meiji Japan.

By the Treaty of Shimonoseki 馬關條約, Ching dynasty ceded to Japan the Penghu islands, Taiwan( including Diaoyu islands) and parts of Liaodong Peninsula.

Basically, what happened was that Ching dynasty lost the First Sino-Japanese War to Meiji Japan. so Taiwan and Diaoyu islands etc were ceded to Japan.

So if you ask why didn't China protest when the Japanese build whatever on Diaoyu islands.
During early last century, Taiwan and Diaoyu islands were under Japanese occupation anyway (1895-1945). The Ching dynasty or later, the Republic of China could do nothing to stop Japan from building whatever on Diaoyu islands.

Tell your Japanese friend about this historical fact and don't be deceived by them anymore.

After the WWII, by the Cairo Declaration (1943) and by the Potsdam Declaration (1945):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Declaration

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potsdam_Declaration

All the territories Japan has stolen from China such as Manchuria (Dongbei), Formosa (Taiwan), and the Pescadores (Penghu), shall be restored to the Republic of China.

Treaty of San Francisco

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_San_Francisco

In 1972, the United States "reversion" of the Ryūkyūs occurred along with the ceding of control over the nearby (uninhabited) Senkaku Islands.[16] Both the People's Republic of China and the Republic of China, now commonly known as "Taiwan", argue that this agreement did not determine the ultimate sovereignty of the Senkaku Islands.

Basically, what happened was that the US gave Diaoyu islands to Japan for no reason at all. Again, it looks like the US is the trouble maker here.

To continue from my the previous post. If Ching dynasty ceded Penghu islands, Taiwan and Diaoyu islands, Liaodong Peninsular to Japan, after the First Sino-Japanese War 甲午戰爭, then after WWII in 1945, all these places should be returned to China at the same time, since Japan agreed to return everything that they stole from from China.

For whatever reason, only  Penghu islands, Taiwan( excluding Diaoyu islands) and Liaodong Peninsula were return to China.
Historically and geologically, Diaoyu islands is part of Taiwan province of China. There is an ocean trough that separates Diaoyu islands and Ryukyu islands(Okinawa).

Diaoyu islands and Ryukyu islands(Okinawa) were place under the custody of the US. But in 1972 the US gave both to Japan. This is where part of the controversy was. Did the US make a mistake, or by intention?

Some reports claimed that President Roosevelt offered ROC's Chiang Kai Shek the Ryukyu islands(Okinawa). but Chiang Kai Shek declined, saying that the Ryukyu islands is a separate country, just like Korea. But still, the US should not lump Diaoyu islands and Ryukyu islands together.

In fact, the sovereignty of the Ryukyu islands(Okinawa) is still in doubt, since the US only handed to Japan the administrative and legislative rights, but not the sovereignty of Ryukyu islands(Okinawa). As more and more unsettled sovereignty issues are exposed, the idea that Okinawa is not part of Japan is just shocking to those Japanese.

peter236

至於“Historically and geologically, Diaoyu islands is part of Taiwan province of China.”的問題又另一個〔假設〕。

“Geologically”, 若非近代衛星及探測技術，海牀版塊的詳細資料，“地理上是”這個論點1800-1950年是沒有明顯實證。

“Historically”方面，大家就真需要看一看，歷史中，由‘明朝’至‘清朝’至‘國民政府’至‘中共政府’，數百年的文獻、地圖都可以作為證據。
satil 發表於 2012-10-1 08:24

Whether people had the technology to know about the geology of Taiwan and Diaoyu islands 200 yrs ago is irrelevant. We are talking about today.

If the United Nations tries to make a verdict now, of course it will use current international marine laws and the current technology which allow the whole world to see that geologically, Taiwan and the Diaoyu islands are of the same type. There is an ocean trough between Diaoyu islands and Okinawa.

It looks like Japan's claim is getting more and more shaky,
China has the earliest historical claim and current international marine laws would agree that Diaoyu islands is geologically an extension of Taiwan which itself is an extension of China's continental shelf. Japan has no effective control over Diaoyu islands as China/Taiwan ships are entering 12km of Diaoyu islands whenever they want.

As this argument goes on, even Ryukyu island's(Okinawa) sovereignty is questionable.

peter236

1895年甲午戰爭，國際通稱第一次中日戰爭（First Sino-Japanese War），清朝政府戰敗，與日本簽訂 馬關條約。

1923年日本關東大地震.中國北洋政府與中國人民捐款助日, 結果換來的是, 8年後日本侵略中國, 14年後南京大屠殺.

peter236

Again, your information and logic are wrong. I think China is still using 大陸架延伸法 in East Sea which includes Diaoyu islands vs Japan's 中間線.
If China uses 中間線, then there would not be a dispute over 春曉油田. The fact that there is a dispute shows that China is still using 大陸架延伸法.

Also, the fact that Japan agrees to 共同開發  春曉油田 means it is Japan that is contradicting itself and is showing signs of giving up on East Sea and Diaoyu islands.

peter236

The Japanese are scared now that mainland China and Taiwan are controlling the Taiwan Straits, putting a squeeze on Japan's oil supply from the Middle East.

peter236

老共根本一向是牆頭草，所以你會見到皮蛋+另一個(唔記得佢名) 一直也是飄移。
甚至有時會扮中立，罵老共兩句，然後又唱好八句。 呢種愛國人仕，就是魯迅筆下之 "二花臉" .
imvitasoy 發表於 2012-10-5 12:20

給人亂扣帽子就是你的技倆.