Lik

Adding to what Beaver has said, the resignation/by-election is really meant to be a referendum in disguise (變相公投). The thing is, HK doesn't have any referendum legislation, so there is no means for HK citizens to really voice their opinions on critically important matters. Through the 5-region simultaneous resignation, LSD and the Civic Party (and hopefully the Democratic Party as well) can brand the re-election process as a form of referendum. If you support the call for a generally elected HKSAR CEO and a fully elected Legislative Council body, you vote for the pan-democrat candidate to reinstate him back into office. If you'd rather give up the right to vote for your own HKSAR CEO and continue to have the undemocratic functional constituencies in LegCo looking out for their own benefits instead of looking out for the general public's interest, vote against the pan-democrats or abstain from the vote.

The choice is clear -- why is this so difficult to understand?!

-Lik

Lik

question:  why just 五區? is it because the pan-democrats are currently controlling just 五區 - 23 seats?
daimo 發表於 2009-11-25 16:20

因為香港立法會得 5個選區：港島、九龍東、九龍西、新界東、同新界西。只要五區總辭，補選嘅時候就可以做到要全民出來投票，亦達到變相公投嘅目的，叫香港人明明確確咁走出來話俾阿爺同特區政府聽香港人想唔想要雙普選。

It is too risky,
you can't afford to loose even one seat.
You can't under estimate the pro China strength to upset you.
sheep 發表於 2009-11-25 15:38

危唔危險呢件事，其實毓民真係講得好啱：你如果民主黨班老鬼唔係咁縮骨、咁契弟嘅話，民主黨一走出來支持，咁件事又點會唔係水到渠成呢？反為依家民主黨班老鬼玩縮骨，於是連帶大狀黨班人又可以借勢話唔搞喇... 真係...

-力

Lik

毓民話嘅係如果白鴿黨班友唔係咁縮骨而肯全力支持嘅話（最少都唔係好似依家咁放晒風、唱晒淡），咁五區總辭、變相公投呢下就贏硬咁滯。但家陣白鴿黨中嘅老而不唔夠薑去馬，而馬丁又玩半轉呔，咁家下個形勢就真係好危。而且公民黨班友唔多唔少亦係機會主意者，家陣成條下台階都有喇，佢地縮沙亦一啲都唔奇。

當年陳太嵌葉劉唔係贏少少喎？滾動民調一直係陳太領先，而最後陳太亦以 54.84% 對葉劉 42.89%。贏十幾 percent、多三萬幾（差唔多四萬）票都算贏少少？！而且今次五區總辭建制派根本無乜邊個大哥出到來。田大同田二少？嫻姐？坐過監過個白頭佬？定係果啲好似挫胸勤咁有質數嘅第二梯隊嘅契弟呀？講到尾，本來就贏硬，唔係你民主黨咁無種，老早就成咗事啦！

其實依家個勢咁危險，如果公社兩黨依然繼續去嘅話，關心香港民主晉程嘅人真係要出多一分力，吹行雞、疊齊馬、有咁多票拉咁多票來盡返自己嘅公民責任。

-力

Lik

贏十幾 percent 都仲算少嘅話，我真係唔知點先至算係大勝囉。唔通真係七三或八二咩？！

長毛、嫻姐、同田少邊個係現任議員？邊個係票王？邊個係高票落選？何浚仁身為黨主席都贏唔到嘅話，佢唔切腹都無面目再面對選民同自己嘅黨友啦？！

而最重要嘅係，今次變相公投要選嘅係係議題、係要求有雙普選、係單對單隻揪，而唔係同你玩配票、選邊個人、選邊個黨。泛民其實派邊個去都唔重要，因為泛民嘅 5個 candidate 就係代表要普選。你係撐普選，就要撐泛民同投票俾個候選人，就係咁簡單。

-力

Lik

so 第四屆立法會 has 30 分區直選 seats right now, and 親建制派 has 11 seats and 泛民主派 has 19 seats.

Question:
if 泛民總辭, then only the 19 seats are affected.  The 11 seats are not affected, right?
daimo 發表於 2009-11-26 12:14

In HK's LegCo, only 30 comes from general election. The other 30 seats come from functional constituencies. IIRC, the pan-democrats have 4 seats in functional constituencies as well, which makes for a total of 23 seats in LegCo. This gives them enough numbers to veto bills proposed by the government.

Originally, LSD only proposed to have 1 elected council member resign from each of HK's 5 ridings. The Civic Party has subsequently brought forth a new 3-phase proposal, with escalating levels action:

1) negotiate with the HKSAR for dual general election roadmap
2) 5-ridings resignation
3) mass resignation of all 23 pan-democrats council members (19 from the elected members, and 4 from functional constituencies) as a means to protest and boycott the HKSAR government's complete lack of action to promote democracy as mandated by the HK Basic Law

Unfortunately, since the Civic Party's 3-phase proposal, Civic Party's 湯家驊 has already indicated that should the process escalate to phase 3 (23-member mass resignation), he will not resign as a LegCo member, but instead withdraw from the Civic Party. Furthermore, it is widely rumoured that up to 4 LegCo members (most likely 湯家驊, 馮檢基, 梁耀忠, and 1 more person) have already been bought out by the Establishment / Grandfather, so they will not resign.

唉... 車公老早就講咗㗎啦，眼前鬼卒皆為妖... 點解泛民裡面咁多反骨仔同縮骨精嘅呢？

-力

Lik

My understanding is, LSD has only been wanting and promoting the Hong Kong-wide 5-riding resignation, and seek re-election as a means to carry out the unofficial referendum.

The Civic Party, on the other hand, brought up their 3-phase proposal, and so far, only phase 1 (the negotiation phase) has received support of the entire pan-democrat camp -- "talks" has already been held with Bowtie, but no progress has been made at all because the none of the pan-democrats' requests have been adopted in Bowtie's policy reform proposal.

CP's phase 2 plan want meant to be pretty much identical to LSD's 5-riding wide resignation / re-election / referendum-in-disguise. Details have not been finalized yet because CP and LSD were waiting/hoping the Democratic Party would support the movement, perhaps even providing candidate(s) for the resignation / re-election-referendum.

For the phrase 3 plan, I think it is only meant to be a form of protest and boycott. The council members will not be seeking re-election at all for the rest of the current LegCo term. The mass resignation of elected legislative council members will undoubtedly create international attention and pressure to condemn the lack of democratic progress in Hong Kong. In 2012 (that's when the current LegCo term ends), however, the pan-democrats will  take part in the LegCo election again.

-Lik

Lik

MJJ,

If you really want to vote for someone who can improve the facilities in your area, remember this -- DAB will never vote against $$-wasting projects such as the useless high speed train project because Grandfather wants it done. The project costs each and every HK citizen over HKD$10k's worth of money, and will invariably create massive traffic jams in the West Kowloon area. It'll also destroy the homes and peaceful livestyles of those living in 菜園村 while hardly benefiting any sizable number of people in Hong Kong.

Every voter needs to keep this in mind the next time they cast their ballot.

-Lik

Lik

五毛懵仔，

菜園村一事，唔該你自己去 check 清楚啲 facts 先走出來鳩up。接受賠償嘅好多根本只係有菜園村地權，但本身再無響菜園村入面住嘅人。真係響果度住嘅，特別係啲老人家、老村民根本就唔想走。

高鐵概念本身並無太大問題，但執行上卻完全錯誤！短短 26公里嘅鐵路每公里造價仲貴過英法海底鐵路隧道、成條大數貴過赤垃角機場嘅成本價，呢個係咩道理？！唔通你夠膽死話呢條高鐵嘅實用價值高過香港國際機場同英法海底鐵路？！

港琛兩地其實已經咁多口岸、咁多交通渠道，而港珠澳大橋亦拍咗板要起，港琛嘅人流數量其實又有無咁多？點解要起多條擾民、徙錢、破壞交通、重要唔方便、又無人搭嘅鐵路？要起，點解唔可以起響地面？總站唔響西九龍？點解唔可以選用現有嘅鐵路路線而加以改建／擴建？反高鐵大聯盟請 engineering firm 做過個 study，話只要總站唔起響西九同繞一繞道，成個 project 嘅造價就可以由＄550幾億嘅天價暴減至 ＄200 至 ＄400億，但特衰政府就死人都唔肯改，而且仲要夾硬推個計劃，想叫人信服都幾難啦？！

大哪哪 ＄550幾億嘅報價（最後條大數一定嚴重超標）你一吓就咁燒咗佢，叫你加過少少生果金、撥多啲醫療同教育開支就死都唔肯！呢啲咪叫做「善財難捨、冤枉甘心」囉！。咁嘅政府唔掉七佢都唔係人啦？！

換咗有雙普選嘅話，你估特首敢唔敢推個嚴重反民意嘅計劃出來？立法會議員又敢唔敢背棄民意而批准撥款？！講到尾，香港政制嘅不堪到係源於無普選！！！

-力

Lik

佢解釋得幾好
ricrick 發表於 2009-11-27 18:23

Mr. Siu really explained it very well the other night. RickRick should also include the link for part 2 here ar mah:

http://us1.hkreporter.com/files/new/sea_2009-11-26_2_1591.mp3

所以話班顛狗係無腦囉﹐白痴到無人有。
如果我係建制派既﹐有機會贏既區﹐好似新界西o甘﹐就谷行資源派人去補選。港島區呢D實輸既﹐就唔派人出黎﹐等飯民條友自動當選﹐即係無得選。
既可將所謂既公投變成國際笑話﹐又有機會再奪一兩席﹐你話幾爽呢~
去馬啦﹐五區總辭~ 哈哈哈soli 發表於 2009-11-27 21:22

所以話你無腦就真係無腦。

建制派唔叫人出來選就一定俾人話佢驚輸；而叫得一個人出來選，就要叫派行馬五區都選，如果唔係就更加樣衰、更加會俾泛民捉住佢驚輸呢一點來插死佢，對建制派更加不利。但一叫人出來選，咁又會令到個公投議題（香港人要唔要普選？）嘅 legitimacy 更加確實，而呢樣就正喺阿爺最唔想見到嘅事。

其實毓民呢條五區補選、變相公投嘅橋真係非常之絕，叫建制派同阿爺都左右做人難。只可惜民主黨同華叔今鋪實在太窩囊，真係叫人徹底失望。

-力

Lik

哈哈﹐我認為飯民做唔到五區對壘會更樣衰囉
好可能既結果係﹐飯民自動當選三席﹐只有新界兩區既人有得投票﹐飯民仲要輸一兩席﹐o甘係咪叫新界區公投呀? lol
只要有一個地區要自動當選﹐無得投票﹐全民公投呢個議題就灰飛煙滅﹐變成笑話一個。soli 發表於 2009-11-28 17:37

民賤聯號稱全港最大黨，而上次選舉每區都有第二梯隊嘅成員唔夠票而選唔到入立法會（當然，果啲友仔亦只係志在參與吓咁，儸返多少經驗，磨多幾年先搏可以好似搓胸勤咁上位）。但既然上次正式選舉有參選，作為新手嘅佢地補選卻唔敢出戰，呢啲唔係怕輸、唔係輸唔起仲可以係乜？！你怕輸而唔敢參加公投補選嘅話，本身就正正代表着你已經輸咗！

正常選舉嘅比例代表制又好、補選嘅隻揪隻又好，阿爺派兵出戰嘅話就一定會用晒所有合法「賄選」嘅渠道來谷票、配票、同「買票」。如果泛民支持者唔企出來投票，而令到五區公投補選失敗，泛民議員選唔返入議會，咁 unfortunately 呢個亦係民意嘅結果。社民連三子夠膽提出五區公投呢個建議，就預咗有輸呢個可能性，亦無數次咁講過會欣然接受選民嘅意向，因為佢地真係相信民主呢個理念，亦百份百咁尊重民意。你估好似民主黨班老鬼契弟咁係無膽匪類，驚輸就唔敢出來算咩？！公民黨支持得五區公投呢個提案，相信亦接受唔一定可以選返入議會。

呢啲先至叫做相信民主！你估好似你 Soli 呢庭有奶便是娘嘅契弟咁，淨係識得家長式嘅一言堂、同去擦阿爺鞋呀？！

-力