mcjohnjohn

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-5-14 00:56 發表
News兄，

先撇開加拿大既 welfare system 唔講，以香港既綜援制度，$2300幾一個人。當你一家三、四口住響天水圍，四千幾蚊住響新界，唔出市區，無病無痛都勉強頂得住，但一旦屋企有咩市就會即刻大檸樂。好喇，你話去搵工，想過海去中區做清潔，一個月搵 $4000 （其實應該無咁多），每個禮拜返六日，每日 "只係" 做12個鐘（其實耗多要做14個鐘）。淨係巴士來回轉幾程閑閑地三、四個鐘車，仲要一日踏成百蚊，你唔食，齋搭車都去左一半有多啦？出左去返工，咁屋企細路仔邊個睇住呢？

好喇，我唔去中區打工，最少都要出油尖旺掛？唔過海慳得幾多錢，幾多時間呢？好，我再返近D，去荃灣打工，但荃灣人工又會差D，即係最後條大數都係差唔多。

好喇，今次個細路病左，夜晚發燒。可以去邊處睇醫生呢？好對唔住，全個天水圍連半間醫院都無。想睇私家醫生？你發夢都無咁早。公營既夜診服務亦好似只係攪過少少 pilot project 之類。要去急証室，飛的最少都要去屯門。唔理得咁多喇，帶左個靚仔去睇醫生先啦。攪左成晚，第二日返唔到工，工頭打電話來話今日返唔到工就以後都唔使返來啦。算啦，睇掂左個細路好返D先啦。

以上既故事好 typical，香港每一個社工都可以隨口 up 九百幾個更慘既過案比你聽。香港唔少既窮人都來自國內，可能係新移民，又可能係內地妻兒申請到落來香港。人生路不熟，又俾人歧視，佢地可以做D咩呢？佢地又係咪大部份都想做懶人既呢？我唔覺得會係咁囉。

-力

力兄, 小弟非常欣賞果d 含辛茹苦, 一心想自力更生既人. 老實講, 呢班人想脫貧既可能性係極之低, 佢地唯有希望自己既仔女可以讀好d 書, 將來可以做一份好工, 到時先可以真真正正咁脫貧. 香港既福利制度係唔會比飽飯你食, 因為怕養慣一班懶人. 當人人都覺得唔駛做都有一定質素既生活, 咁就會有一d 人去偷懶.

新移民問題, 閣下有否曾經諗過既然想團聚, 點解唔一氣麻甩佬番大陸同家人團聚, 而係申請老婆仔女黎香港團聚呢? 好多人好憎呢班新移民, 覺得佢地浪費納稅人既錢. 其實, 佢地都想自力更生既, 但係又好似冇乜辦法去幫佢地. 佢地知識水平低, 唯有做一d 體力勞動工作, 賺辛苦錢, 先至叫做可以維拎一頭家. 如果當佢地發現有d 同鄉食綜媛既生活都好過佢, 咁佢做黎仲乜? 呢個係一個惡性循環...

不過諗諗下, 一日番工十四個鐘, 一個月都係賺四千幾蚊, 拎綜媛如果多過呢個數, 仲有人去做野架咩? 冇人做野, 老闆就只好加人工嗎? 好難喇, 因為仲有大把人冇祺格申請綜緩, 大把人爭住做十二蚊一個鐘既工...

加綜緩唔係辦法, 爭取設立最低工資好過啦.

Ultraman

There are poor and rich in every country. I don't see HK is different and special lor. And every rich and poor has own story behind, that we might not able to understand all of them. If all rich people have to feed poor ones voluntarily, I would be happy to be a poor one la. Or if the government forces rich people to feed poor ones for no reason but just because "they are poor", don't you think rich people will bark back?

LOK

It's not only in HK, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer.  
If you have a good job, then you might only have "enough" money.  For an employee, the increase of gas, rice... everything... are way faster then the increase of your wage.  People can't just earn money by their "hands" anymore.
Think about it, how many hrs you could work for a day, how much got pay for an hr, very easy to calculate.  You may also able to calculate how much you could earn for your whole life until retired (might add average 2% increase for every year).
However, for the rich ppl, they use money to earn money.  It's not a simple calculation anymore, they might able to make double, triple... of their money in a very short period.

[ 本帖最後由 LOK 於 2008-5-14 12:31 編輯 ]

LOK

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-5-14 11:31 發表
麥莊莊，

香港既貧富懸殊問題越來越嚴重，而聽D社工講，依家好多時個問提係隔代貧窮，亦即係老竇老母窮，之後個仔都繼續窮。其實呢件事都唔難理解。就當個仔讀書都算勤力，成績中上，有足夠能力去讀大專課程（成績上）。但屋企住響天 ...

there will be other problems if they set the 最低工資.  There is not a single solution that could solve all the problems.  Some ppl might even lost their $4000/month job if the 最低工資 really happened.

Ultraman

Don't we have minimum wage here? Don't we still have poor people and jobless people?

mcjohnjohn

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-5-15 03:31 發表
香港既貧富懸殊問題越來越嚴重，而聽D社工講，依家好多時個問提係隔代貧窮，亦即係老竇老母窮，之後個仔都繼續窮。其實呢件事都唔難理解。就當個仔讀書都算勤力，成績中上，有足夠能力去讀大專課程（成績上）。但屋企住響天水圍，老竇老母又一把年紀了，使問你做仔既又點忍心自己跑去讀書，而繼續叫老竇老母拿綜援養家呢？

可能小弟不孝, 如果小弟係果個仔, 小弟一定會去讀書, 繼續拿綜緩. 一定full grant full loan, 唔駛錢讀書, 政府又有車船津貼. 上完堂之後就可以去市區幫人補習, 可以搵到少少錢架!

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-5-15 03:31 發表
而 realistically，綜援又養唔養到家？你連買西裝既錢都無，又點去打社字樓工？屋企赤貧，又住得遠，又邊度有錢搭車出市區返工？結果又繼續留響天水圍附近，做D人工最低既工種，隔代都無辦法脫離貧窮。

綜援可以餓你唔死... 冇人叫你剩係食綜援, 梗係要出去市區搵下外快啦~ 補習唔係申報架! 小弟當年一個月起碼搵二三千蚊. 西裝, 五百蚊一套都有. 天水圍唔係好遠, 出中環唔駛一個鐘架.

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-5-15 03:31 發表
最低工資同最高工時呢兩樣野，你估無人講咩？李卓仁阿仁哥講左九十幾世啦。泛民亦大把議員有提案同支持，但因為立法會既制度問題，其實成個立法會只能提出問題，而無能力去逼政府做任何野。而響政府同大企業私商受受之下，大財團向政府施壓，政府又點會唔聽？

咁又係呀, 寧得罪窮人, 莫得罪富商...

原帖由 Traum 於 2008-5-15 03:31 發表
呢D全部都係社會問題，但社會問題係須要政府有合適既對策來應付。而政府一值係咁 cut 社福界既 budget，又向大財團同有錢人傾斜同作利益輸送，試問問題又點會解決到？

社福界d 錢去哂教育同醫療果邊...

soli

原來力哥係傾向共產主義既~