ccyip

16# chobit

Yes, MB's not very reliable these days with minor problems here and there and costly to fix.  However, there are always people think of it as "status symbol" and if they can afford it (since the starting price is not that far off from the Japanese SUVs), why not?

I guess it's still down to personal preference.  Some people like orange and some people like apple.

Personally if the price difference is only $4K between RDX and an GLK/X3, I would pick the GLK/X3.  But for $10K difference I would get the RDX.  Afterall, they are just trucks and if I want performace I would get a true sport car.

Lik

No, there are a lot of RDX and MDX in Vancouver - but they are outnumbered by the X3/GLK and X5/ML and to a lesser degree, the Audi Q5/Q7, especially in Richmond.
ccyip 發表於 2009-8-26 11:15

There are lots of RDX and MDX here in Vancouver? Not that I can see, and especially not of the Acura-beaked RDX. In fact, I haven't seen *ANY* Acura-beaked RDX outside of their showroom at all!

Acura's heyday were definitely back in the mid 90's when the DC Integra was out. The car was pretty much ubiquitous among younger folks. The EL, which was little more than a dressed up Civic, was also selling well. Even when it came to the early 2000's, the TL was still quite a respectable car, and the RSX wasn't bad either. The TSX, of course, was a stella car.

But then Honda decided to start designing ugly cars. The FD Civic looks ok, and the CP3 Accord has a passable look, although their looks pale in comparison to their predecessors. But the ugly award must definitely be given to the Acura beak, with the current TL taking top honours (although the upcoming ZDX is a close second). It almost seems like Acura went out of their way to design cars as ugly as they could think of. The completely random 3-letter naming scheme doesn't help either. After all, who remembers what all these meaningless letters stand for, especially when they either start with the same letter, or differ only by the first of the 3 letters?

I really feel sorry for the Acura dealers, you know. They've been totally screwed by Honda.

-Lik

elan7e

如果Acura的銷售量真的下降了，各位認為是因為外觀的新設計不討好，還是Acura近年的質量下降所引致呢？

MSN04

如果Acura的銷售量真的下降了，各位認為是因為外觀的新設計不討好，還是Acura近年的質量下降所引致呢？
elan7e 發表於 2009-8-26 21:39

質量下降
esp. those N. american made.  Simply crappy.
Japanese made still good tho.

elan7e

什麼車款仍是日本做？

Lik

Acura's market failure is a wide combination problems all added up together. Different people will think different aspects played a more important role, and the follow is my take on the issue:

As far as engineering is concerned, Honda (and therefore Acura) is still very solid, although engineering designs and built quality has dropped compared their heyday back in the early 90's. Mechanic parts are not as over-engineered and over-built, and you see more factory recalls issued for Honda / Acura, and some of them could be rather major. When the current gen of Civic was first released, there was a somewhat major recall (on the gas pedal, I think). Before that, another earlier generation of Civic was prone to suspension problems. The 6th gen Accord also suffered from transmission problems.

The biggest problem I see with Acura has to do with market positioning. Unlike Lexus and Nissan, Honda's market positioning for Acura is very poorly handled. Acura was originally the first upscale brand among the Japanese manufacturers, but Honda never defined Acura's role very clearly. Toyota made Lexus to be an upscale, luxury brand that competes with Mercedes, BMW, and Audi, and their brand's cachet missed its goal initially, nowadays Lexus is almost every bit as competitive as the German big boys. Nissan got off to rough start with Infiniti, but they finally found their niche to be an upscale sporty brand that gives BMW a good run for their money. But Acura? In the late 80's, Acura tried to be a sporty version of Honda, and that almost worked. But it was still too easy to tell the cars were only slightly more dressed up than the down-to-earth Hondas. The DC Integra in the mid 90's was a phenomenal success, securing the brand's reputation as young and sporty. But their bigger cars were still too closely related to Honda Accords and it showed, so sales of those never really took off. Worse still, Honda left the DC Integra to languish for too long. In addition to killing the 4-door model, the sporty image that was hard-earned by the DC Integra was widely tarnished when its successor, the RSX, showed up with inferior handling capabilities. And with that, Acura lost its single most valuable asset that it worked so hard to achieve.

The EL sold well in Canada, but then Honda killed it since its market position was too close to the top end Civics and the Integra/RSX. The plan totally backfired, as people didn't want to pay top dollars for a Civic, and the RSX wasn't a 4-door. So now Acura doesn't have an entry level model. When the CSX finally showed up, people found it too expensive and too similar to the Civic, so they just bought Civics instead.

The 1st gen TSX was a phenomenal success, but at the time, the RSX wasn't selling well, and FWD V6 just wasn't people's ideas of what luxury vehicles (or even near luxury vehicles) were. In any case, most Honda can be almost as nicely furnished as the Acuras, so buyers found it perfectly acceptable to buy Hondas instead.

Right now, it seems to me that Acura is trying to sell itself as a high tech, near luxury car company. However, high tech gadgets and near luxury don't work when your cars are a$$-ugly, FWD, and V6-only.

-Lik

ccyip

22# Lik

Lik Hing, I think you speak what I have in mind.  I couldn't agree more.

The problem with Honda, and most Japanese car manufacturers in gerenal, is that they try to "Americanized" their products to please the Americans who like (or liked?) big cars.  Take the Accord as an example, starting in 98 Honda splitted the Accord line and offer 2 different styles Accord to the: a) JDM/European market and b) the rest of the world.  While the JDM/European Accord (which would become the Acura TSX in 2004) retained the characteristic of being a good handling FF sedan, the version the rest of the world get has now become nothing more than a Buick with a Japanese namplate.  And to add salt to the wound, Acura is now offering a V6 to the 2010 TSX (which is still the JDM/European Accord) to please the people here in North America who like anything but V6 or bigger.  I think the spirit of the Accord is truly dead.  

Another problem with Acura is that the are trying too hard to move their brand upsale to compete with BMW/MB/Audi by jacking up their price too much.  These days BMW/MB/Audi are offering lower-end models like the 323i/C230(called C250 in 2010)/A4 2.0T for consumers who don't want to break the bank for a luxury car.   While these Eurpoean offerings can be had for less than $40K (except for the A4) when nicely equipped, a TSX is going to cost like $37K or so.   So to the car enthusiasts it's an easy choice to pick anything Europeans over the Acura.  No wonder Acura is now offering $1500 rebate to buyers who current drives MB/BMW (perhaps Audi too).  

I used to own Accord and Integra and liked them.  But those days were gone...

ccyip

26# Lik

Yes, most car enthusiasts do not consider a FWD vehicle to be a luxury car.  It has to be AWD or RWD.   

You can argue that Audi is offering FWD A4 here but really when you buy their Quattro (yes, I wouldn't buy one without it) it has a 40-60 split so you have more of a RWD feel.

Even though the TL and RL are AWD, their SH-AWD is still front wheel biased.  

And I think you said it right: high tech gadgets and near luxury don't work when your cars are a$$-ugly, FWD, and V6-only.

Lik

Fundamentally, there is nothing wrong with Americanizing their cars to be bigger (both in physical and engine size), more powerful, and more luxurious. After all, that's Toyota did with Lexus and Nissan did with Infiniti, and they managed to be quite successful. The problem is, you gotta execute it correctly, and Honda went about doing this the wrong way with Acura.

To the American mind, FWD = economy drivetrain configuration, while RWD is more of a sporty, luxurious setup. It doesn't really matter whether the perception has any factual truth to it -- if consumers believe it, then that's the way it is. Acura's utter failure lies in Honda's ultra conservatism and steadfast refusal to build a mid/full size RWD platform. When you take a look around, the German big boys are primarily RWD or AWD. Lexus and Infiniti both have RWD (and later AWD) offerings in the IS and G lines, respectively. Furthermore, Americans' love for V8 muscle in a flagship vehicle also meant that Honda's refusal / inability to deliver an 8-cylinder engine has doomed them right from the start.

Getting back to Elan, instead of the RDX and MDX, I'd really consider offerings from other manufacturers instead. Specifically, I'd consider every Subaru (or only the Forrester, or all-new Legacy / Legacy wagon, and Tribeca if the Impreza looks too cheap), the Hyundai Santa Fe, Toyota Rav4 and Highlander, Honda CRV (or maybe the upcoming facelifted version in September), Volkswagen Tiguan, and Infiniti EX. Obviously, they come in at different price points, but for the most part, they are all fairly decent. The Volkswagen might be slightly less reliable than its Japanese and Korean rivals, but even then it should be plenty reliable as the MkV cars on which the Tiguan's chassis was built have been far more reliable than the previous MkIV cars. Just as importantly, none of these cars are nearly as foul-looking as the Acuras.

Now, if your in-laws have an obvious preference for Honda/Acura, it would probably be a loss cause to try sell them anything else. Maybe the CRV route would still work, but for the most part, if an Acura is what they want, then just let them be. It'll be sufficiently reliable, even though it looks butt ugly and maintenance won't be cheap. Then again, maintenance won't be that cheap anyway for Subaru, Volkswagen, and Infiniti either.

-Lik

mcs889

not really.......

REAL RDX drive in city is 15.5~15.6L/ 100KMs

Real world milage for RDX 50/50 is more like 9-10L/100km....!



chobit 發表於 2009-8-26 16:47