Ultraman

New driver:
"I want to buy a car..."
"You should buy a bike first!"

First time home buyer:
"I want to buy a house..."
"You should rent a room first!"

New cook:
"I want to cook French cuisine...."
"Better cook instant noodles first!"

New in photography:
"I want to learn DSLR..."
(to be more extreme) "You should go study, earn a degree or at least diploma in photography first, and then start with a prosumer camera, and you can buy your first DSLR 10 years later."
(in fact) "You should get a prosumer to start!"


.............. I just don't understand these logic. But anyways, I'll stop right here.

Lik

Dude,

You think I am being extreme? Take a look at the hard numbers yourself:

brand new Canon Rebel XSi w/ 18-55 IS kit lens: $700+tax
used Canon 30D body only: $425 no tax -- can probably bargain him down to $400

The XSi is newer, but the 30D will easily trump the XSi in features, capability, and usability. It all boils down to the buyer paying less for a similar or better product. It's exactly the same reason why people saying buying a lightly used 2nd hand car is a much smarter buy than paying for a brand spanking new vehicle. It's also the same reason why every veteran (motorcycle) rider will recommend a newbie rider to start off on a second hand beat up newbie bike before they move on to something bigger and better.

-Lik

Ultraman

Dude,

You think I am being extreme? Take a look at the hard numbers yourself:

brand new Canon Rebel XSi w/ 18-55 IS kit lens: $700+tax
used Canon 30D body only: $425 no tax -- can probably bargain h ...
Lik 發表於 2010-1-31 01:05

Sorry I have to reply you again.

I didn't see you guys suggested an used or a second hand DSLR, but a brand new prosumer. And that's why I don't understand and keep wondering. Why you guys suggest an used or a second hand DSLR but a prosumer in the first place? Some people tend to look down "newbies", especially when they see the term "newbie", they never ask why those newbies have such a question and needs, but always "encourage" them to start with a different thing.

Ultraman

It's exactly the same reason why people saying buying a lightly used 2nd hand car is a much smarter buy than paying for a brand spanking new vehicle. It's also the same reason why every veteran (motorcycle) rider will recommend a newbie rider to start off on a second hand beat up newbie bike before they move on to something bigger and better.
Lik 發表於 2010-1-31 01:05

This is what I don't agree, somehow.
Unless you know well enough about cars, I won't suggest a "newbie" to buy used cars cuz in case the car break down in the middle of the road or something happens, they will have no idea what's going on and what to do. But in fact, I will suggest them to get a new car from any dealer, in case anything happens, they are "hand-tail-free" and simply take the car to the dealer and get it fixed.

MoiRhapsody

原來係揾交嘈
新手，真係可以買Xsi嫁~~
有無數case三分鐘熱度入左DSLR，
最後嫌佢大部帶出街麻煩用番DC影，
部機就咁係屋企做擺設，
或半價出售。

樓主，買部LX3/G11，夠你玩兩年。
如果你唔介意backpack十幾磅野都要去影相，
到時先再上黎問。

fibbi

OT a bit。。。我覺得newbie開車嘅同newbie玩相機唔應該相題並論。新手開車，睇位唔係咁熟，容易啲揩花，意外機會相對高，開架經濟啲嘅車（二手or not），整嘅時候無咁肉痛。但係相機唔會咁易用壞嗰喎，只係講究function多與少嚟俾用家去實習。買dslr，真係要at least2 lens，次次帶成袋嘢出街，都幾係嘢架。

maanmo

as a new hand my self

what is most helpful  is not having the right ideal DSLR

  the most useful  tools are actually a combination of
a compact   wide angle , 10x,  manual focus,  and whatever manual control you can think o
of

get a slim one for $300
carry and forget,   shoot any time you feel like learning

DSLR , you can learn without
if you feel like it, grab one,  grab any one...
play with it  and  chances are  , you will want to grab a new one in a year 's time

with DSLR , they are all best, best for one year. no good the next year
talking DSLR is like talking about girls with president Clinton

by all means ,  play cameras , play DSLR

but dont forget  you need a wife
president clinton would not be president without hillary
its the wife  who gives the support clinton needs to be president

its that compact  all purpose camera  that you carry around with that help you learn
photography

now go out and grab a DSLR,  
  experience the joy of  playing cameras  yourself
  the point is grab one now,  no need to ask which one is best,
they are all best now, they are all no good , a year from now

daimo

Newbies should look for a camera that supports EASY access to manual mode, regardless of new/used/SLR/all-in-one(!).

Some people will NEVER buy used electronics.  It's their preference and in their blood, it's not about right or wrong.

Lik

I didn't see you guys suggested an used or a second hand DSLR, but a brand new prosumer.
Ultraman 發表於 2010-1-31 01:23

See post #4:

Scour Craigslist and look for an old 20D, an old XT, or and old XTi. When you've developed some sense of what you're doing behind one of those cameras, then it's time to re-consider what you should buy (and chances are, it wouldn't be another camera body).

-Lik
Lik 發表於 2010-1-29 23:46

And then see post #17 where Chobit made a good point of caution about used camera gear:

Depends on how much money you can save.., craigslist is a good souce.. yet.. it can be risky, since I know people out there selling heavily used old DSLR, and there is very little way you can tell if it's about to die or not..

EL
chobit 發表於 2010-1-30 17:36

It's true that some used gear have been heavily used (or even abused), which is why the buyer have to exercise caution before they buy. While you can't always inspect the shutter count on a particular camera, general wear and tear is pretty easy to see. (Actually, there are programs like EOS Info that allows you to check the camera's shutter count.) Last but not least, I am always surprised by the number of mint condition, minimally used camera bodies selling for cheap out there -- 2000 shots 20D because the owner upgraded to a 40D; 4000 shots 30D because the owner upgraded to 50D; 3000 shot XTi because the owner upgraded to a 7D.

Unless you know well enough about cars, I won't suggest a "newbie" to buy used cars cuz in case the car break down in the middle of the road or something happens, they will have no idea what's going on and what to do. But in fact, I will suggest them to get a new car from any dealer, in case anything happens, they are "hand-tail-free" and simply take the car to the dealer and get it fixed.
Ultraman 發表於 2010-1-31 01:28

If you were to logically think about this for just a little longer, you'd realize that:

1) most people are not experts on cars
2) on any given day, there are far more people buying used cars than there are buying new
3) most cars run well enough that they don't require frequent repairs

You know, I really hate to bust you like this all the time.

-Lik

Lik

Some people will NEVER buy used electronics.  It's their preference and in their blood, it's not about right or wrong.
daimo 發表於 2010-1-31 11:05

And cheapa$$es like me are extremely thankful of that because it means we have access to mint condition and minimally used electronics that allows us to streeeeeeeeeeetch our dollars. Same goes for cars and many other big ticket items.

-Lik