chunsh

原帖由 mcjohnjohn 於 2009-1-5 23:18 發表




"群起攻之"? 可否舉例並說明之?
有D學生做左D唔正確既事, 老師去教佢, 勸佢, 個學生都可能會覺得比老師"群起攻之"的...

8）教派衝突、狗咬狗骨
基督教與天主教同出一根，但是自從新教改革以後，新教比天主舊教更邪惡，對社會的危害性比中世紀的舊教本質上有過之而無不及，而且總是不安分守己，某些新教教派更經常攻擊天主教，視為異端，而即使是新教教會與教會之間，也透露出各堂會之間的不和與勾心鬥角，當中不難嗅出教會之間的權力鬥爭與商業化的氣色。

not only between Catholic and Christian, even among the different churches.....
how? here is a classic conversation between 2 "christians"
A: your notion about XXX is not correct. It should be like this blah blah blah
B: hm....that somewhat different from what I understand about Bible (or from my group leader), it should be this way yada yada yada
A: you and your leader 曲解左聖經啦,應該係o甘架..lalalalalala
B (start getting mad): no, my leader told me that and this sentence of the bible should be tranlated in this way tatatatatatata
A: come on man, 你竟然有這樣的信念? 你跟本就不是一個真正的基督徒!!
B: what the holy hell!! shame on you!!

shutterbug

well, I don't know what Christians are you surrounded by but personally I haven't seen this kind of arguments around me very often....

Not related to your example...but do you think swearing is OK for Christians?  To me I don't think so, but to some they think it's not so bad...did the Bible mention any teachings about this...I'm sure it does!

rockypath

Your points are well presented. Do you mind to answer my questions?

1) Do you believe in creation? Why do you believe or not believe?
2) Do you accept there is God? Why do you accept or not accept?

I totally undersand religions have been and continue to be munipulated or used by people in powers. My questions is totally relating to personal choice only. Just want to have inputs from different people.

BiscottiGelato

原帖由 rockypath 於 2009-1-5 23:01 發表
1) Do you believe in creation? Why do you believe or not believe?
2) Do you accept there is God? Why do you accept or not accept?

Again, I choose not to believe or not believe in creationist theories, or any other theories in regards to genesis. I find various theories that people come up with interesting (including the theory where there is a 'god' and that this 'god' created the 'world' and life in this 'world'), and is even more interested in what scientific findings or reasoning they have come up with to support their theories.

Why believe and accept any random thing AS the truth, instead of putting in the effort (or at least appreciate the people and effort that have been put in) in attempt to FIND the truth? There is no way to know the absolute truth in it's entirity, but you can always get closer to it. OR of course, you can always refuse to get closer to the truth and just find your nearest religion and simply accept that as the truth.

Again, what you choose is your personal choice, as long as your choice does not affect other people (aka, in the moderate cases, being motivated to preach your religion, and in the process annoy other people. Or in extreme case being manipulated to conduct terrorist attacks, etc).

A third point just came through my mind..

There is probably nothing more counter productive to civilization than to advocate the denial of the scientific method, which have been one of the most, if not the most brilliant thing that human kind have came up with. The theory of evolution, is probably the closest theory that the scientific method have came up with so far in explaining how living things have came about. It definately shall not be just accepted as the entire truth as it is, as that'd be nothing more than believing in any other random things such as religions. However complete denial of the result entailed by the theory of evolution is nothing short of denial of the scientific method and the basis of science itself. If that is what 'religion' is about, then that'd probably be the 2nd biggest danger I see that 'religion' is posing to society. This danger is that a religion can attempt to drive it's disciple away from science, essentially throwing the world backwards. This is because the scientific method is designed to 'disprove' something, making way to get closer to the 'truth', which is pretty much the absolute opposite of what religion is about...

[ 本帖最後由 BiscottiGelato 於 2009-1-5 23:26 編輯 ]

katamari

原帖由 ricrick 於 2009-1-5 19:41 發表
e? katamari 是敵基督的人bor

其實每個宗教都有不足之處、解不通的事，但每個宗教都係導人向善
每個人也有自由去信什麼，只要不太扁激就得啦

我又想問katamari你是信什麼？ ...

rickrick, I am not a Christian, posting this article up doesn't mean I am against the religion. Don't you think it's interesting to discuss this in a positive way?

Ultraman

原帖由 ricrick 於 2009-1-5 19:41 發表
e? katamari 是敵基督的人bor

其實每個宗教都有不足之處、解不通的事，但每個宗教都係導人向善
每個人也有自由去信什麼，只要不太扁激就得啦

我又想問katamari你是信什麼？ ...

We have no idea what religious background katamari is, he/she only brought up a discussion. But obviously you are a Christian or at least a Christianity believer and is trying to defend immediately. If there are really those two types of Christians-- "immature" and "mature" ones, you may fall into the "immature" category already.

MyOMy

I ain't no Christian. But according to Daimo's post about 林天民 and his book, the write-up that Katamari  posted should not be what 林天民's want to present.

mcjohnjohn

原帖由 Ultraman 於 2009-1-6 16:20 發表
We have no idea what religious background katamari is, he/she only brought up a discussion. But obviously you are a Christian or at least a Christianity believer and is trying to defend immediately. If there are really those two types of Christians-- "immature" and "mature" ones, you may fall into the "immature" category already.

Ultraman, what if there is someone on LYK who "greet" your whole family? Would you defend or fight back?
For me, I don't think defend or fight back is immature. If you treasure something and someone wants to damage it, it is normal to defend.

Do you think it is immature to classify someone's maturity? hahaha

Ultraman

My thoughts:
- Whether there is a god, or more than one god exist in the world?

- Assuming that there is a god, or more than one god, which one is the "true" god, or which ones are?

- There is only the Christianity God (the same one of Catholic) claimed Himself the "true" and "only" god, as well as He is the only "creator" of the world. How can we know if that is true or not? Would there be a chance that the real true one just didn't say anything? It doesn't mean/prove that the one who stood out is the true and only god.

- It was unlikely to have that many people telling the same lie that "Jesus" is the God and be His witness of all the miracles and His resurrection. However, it's like David Copperfield playing those "unbelievable" magics nowadays and some people still thinks there must be "magic" (super natural power). Would it be any chance that people in olden days were tricked by that "Jesus" cuz people at that time were even more naive and innocent?

- No matter how people identify Christians, say "mature" and immature" (or maybe more groups), I believe that human can't be perfect anyways. Even Christians could be in "mature" category, they're still imperfect and thus they still have different weakness anyways. Whenever people see "bad witness", Christians would say "oh, those are only occasional cases by immature Christians, mature Christians won't be like that..... " etc. But well, so called "mature Christians" are also imperfect, they can't be any standard or to represent their God in any way anyways. "Immaturity" is just an excuse.
And back to those comments, which might be valid is, "immature" Christians are still having their church lives, where those "mature" Christians had left their churches and back to their normal lives already.

katamari

原帖由 MyOMy 於 2009-1-6 00:38 發表
I ain't no Christian. But according to Daimo's post about 林天民 and his book, the write-up that Katamari  posted should not be what 林天民's want to present.

Sorry everyone if this is not really from 林天民, but I've already put up [轉貼] in my title. But whoever wrote it, this is NOT the point, I was asking what do you think about these 8 points, not 林天民.