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Some people will NEVER buy used electronics.  It's their preference and in their blood, it's not about right or wrong.


果D人可能當左部機係老婆

換個想法
每次買舊機等如叫一次雞
一年叫幾次
就唔會再介意

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See post #4:

And then see post #17 where Chobit made a good point of caution about used camera gear:

It's true that some used gear have been heavily used (or even abused), which is why the buyer ha ...

1) most people are not experts on cars
2) on any given day, there are far more people buying used cars than there are buying new
3) most cars run well enough that they don't require frequent repairs

You know, I really hate to bust you like this all the time.
Lik 發表於 2010-1-31 11:43


Thanks for pointing these out again.
However, choosing an used or brand new DSLR is the second issue, first thing is, why a newbie shouldn't get a DSLR to learn in the first place? Who said once get into an interest, one should keep it for a life time? You want to tell me you guys who have DSLR are now regret and want to sell them all out, and want to go back to use prosumer for your rest of your life? Can you deny that you have short term or longer term enjoyment and fulfillment for the time you had with your DSLR? Why force others to accept your own experience and feeling? One may feel happy enough to play with DSLR for one year or even one month, what's the problem? How many girlfriends did you guys had before? Can you say it's wasting your time cuz you didn't get married with your ex eventually? I just don't see why people discourage newbies to buy a DSLR in the first place, no matter it's used or new.

*****

1) most people are not experts on cars
True. Same as, most people are not professional photographers. You want to tell me only people expert on cars can/should drive nice cars, and only professional photographers can/should use DSLR?

2) on any given day, there are far more people buying used cars than there are buying new
Any statistic to show whether those people who buy used cars are newbies or somewhat experienced or experts?

3) most cars run well enough that they don't require frequent repairs
You mean used or new ones? In fact, same as choosing used cameras and cars (and many other things too), only if you have enough knowledge on that field so you can tell how good or bad the product is, it's always safer to buy used items from a shop/official dealer since they've reasonable QC on the item and give some sort of warranty to buyers. Buying from individual/private sellers is always at higher risk.


[You know, I really hate to bust you like this all the time. ]
You think you're smart? Only because you are so self-centered and always think you are right and ignore other people's need. How smart you are?!

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I am not opposed to new photographers buying dSLR at all. In fact, did you ever see me advocate that at any point in this thread? What I am recommending against, however, is that newbies go out and buy a brand new entry level dSLR because there is no shortage of quality 2nd hand cameras out there that'll offer 1) lower prices and/or 2) better features. If the new photographer has no means of sourcing those 2nd hand dSLRs, then go ahead and buy new. But Craigslist and BCCamera forum are popular places where you can often find a lot of good deals on mint condition 2nd hand camera products.

On the part about me being smart -- I honestly do not believe I am smart at all. I have seen and personally known far too many people that are infinitely smarter than I can ever hope to be. However, based on the stuff you write and the empty arguments you put forth time and again, I am fairly certain that I am quit bit smarter than you are.

-Lik

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Rebel XS with 18-55mm IS Lens $480 http://accessories.dell.com/sna/ ... dhot&redirect=1

Same thing at Vision $478 http://www2.visions.ca/Catalogue ... &productId=3318

I would not go to Visions simply because I don't like them.

Philip

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I am not opposed to new photographers buying dSLR at all. In fact, did you ever see me advocate that at any point in this thread? What I am recommending against, however, is that newbies go out and bu ...
Lik 發表於 2010-1-31 15:11

There are two issues:
1. prosumer vs DSLR;
2. used vs new.

Let's skip no.1 and discuss no.2 without bias.
My concern:
i) Since you people assume "newbie" knows nothing about photography, how can he/she examine the condition of an used camera which is selling by a private/an individual seller (something from the sites you mentioned)? Yes, one might spend less but turn out getting a piece of garbage.
ii) Is it safer to buy used item from a shop that carries certain kind of warranty?

Please answer the questions directly, smart kid.

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Rebel XS with 18-55mm IS Lens $480 http://accessories.dell.com/sna/ ... dhot&redirect=1

Same thing at Vision $478 http://www2.visions.ca/Catalogue/Cate ...
pkphilip 發表於 2010-1-31 22:06

Thanks pkphilip, these are really good deal.
And since the price of this DSLR is pretty comparable to some prosumer such as G11, I think it's definitely no harm to start with a DSLR even for newbies.

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本帖最後由 maanmo 於 2010-2-1 00:35 編輯

maanmo 's hand is always new, may be its because they never touched a DSLR

a rebel xs  is definitely not useful, not attractive
to sex it up, you need at least one more lens
and i doubt  maanmo will take any better photos with it

than with my 3 megapixel 10 x zoom olympus
( by the way, this  olympus  camera  when new, is $500 , 6 years ago )
( maanmo bought it 3 years ago for $90 )

for $600 the canon sx1IS is the standard   ( on sale , london drugs , $550 )\

this camera has all the features that a new hand want

http://www.steves-digicams.com/camera-reviews/canon/powershot-sx1-is/canon-powershot-sx1-is-review-11.html



""""
The SX1 IS was designed for those who want all the power and abilities of a dSLR, without having to deal with an interchangeable lens system

Bottom line - Canon has produced one awesome digital powerhouse, that can be used by anyone! The SX1 is a perfect 'bridge' camera that fills the gap between consumer point-n-shoots and entry-level dSLR systems. While the price is close to a dSLR kit, there are several features you will not get on most dSLRs at this price point, like the 20x optical zoom, image stabilization, a 2.8-inch articulating LCD, full HD movie mode, etc

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My concern:
i) Since you people assume "newbie" knows nothing about photography, how can he/she examine the condition of an used camera which is selling by a private/an individual seller (something from the sites you mentioned)? Yes, one might spend less but turn out getting a piece of garbage.
ii) Is it safer to buy used item from a shop that carries certain kind of warranty?
Ultraman 發表於 2010-1-31 22:33

Sigh...

dSLR don't really contain any user serviceable parts at all. Entry level models has more plastic parts, but the mid level dSLR line are built *very* solidly (at least, this is true of both Canon and Nikon bodies). If the camera has been subjected to abuse during its previous ownership, you can easily tell by a careful inspection. Does the battery compartment cover close positively? Does the memory card cover feel loose and flappy when you close it? Does the shutter button click smoothly and positively, returning to its full height upon release, or does it get stuck after it has been depressed? Is the metal lense mount badly scratched, chipped, or otherwise dinged up? Do the lens contacts look worn out? Does the shutter clicking sound seem crisp, or does it sound like it's ready to fall apart any moment? Does the hot shoe mount have a lot of scratches (signs of frequent flash inserts and removal)? Does the tripod mounting hole and nearby area have scratches and dings?

If you are buying lenses, you are going to check the glass for clarity, right? You should also check for dust spots and inspect the electrical contacts and mounting ring. Does the zoom and focus rings turn easily and smoothly? Does it focus correctly? You are gonna check the actual operation of the items before you pay, right?

Last but not least, does the seller seem like he is an honest enough person that wouldn't lie about the thing he is trying to sell you?

None of these are rocket science type of observations -- just typical caveat emptor type of thing to do when you buy anything of value.

The only thing you can't tell for certain is the number of shutter actuations on the camera, but this is generally not a problem. People with entry level model cameras generally don't take a lot of pictures -- it is extremely rare to see those cameras with more than 20k shutter actuations (4k to 9k seems to be the norm), and those cameras' shutters are rated between 50k to 100k actuations (depending on the models). Mid level dSLRs have shutters that are mostly rated at 100k actuations. If the camera has really been used that much, you simply can't miss the amount of wear and tear on the camera's body.

I haven't bought used from a camera store in a long, long time, but from what I have seen and remember, the used products they carry tend to be much older, and generally look like they have been very well-used. Also, they are usually not that cheap because it is expensive for the store to maintain such an inventory. Most importantly, I wonder how much of a warranty the store will give you nowadays -- 30 days, tops? And if it breaks during that time, good luck trying to get your money back -- you'll probably be offered in-store credits only.

-Lik

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Sigh...

dSLR don't really contain any user serviceable parts at all. Entry level models has more plastic parts, but the mid level dSLR line are built *very* solidly (at least, this is true of bo ...
Lik 發表於 2010-2-1 00:08

Long enough which I didn't go all thru.
But if a "newbie" can do all these, I really don't understand why some people suggest a prosumer over a DSLR.

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Long enough which I didn't go all thru.
But if a "newbie" can do all these, I really don't understand why some people suggest a prosumer over a DSLR.
Ultraman 發表於 2010-2-1 00:15

LOL~

You asked me for an answer, and I gave it to you. And this is what you tell me.

I rest my case.

-Lik

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